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Post by Rob on Jan 26, 2006 2:54:52 GMT -5
I wasn't surprised by the events in this episode. I was spoiled enough when I read several months ago that someone would be leaving. That one fact - combined with events in previous episodes - made the writing on the wall pretty clear.
What I didn't know was how they would manage to pull it off. In retrospect, I'm glad I didn't, because there were twists and turns that work better without prior knowledge.
The acting was splendid as usual, especially Rico Colantoni, who was positively spectacular. I was profoundly affected by his work in those final scenes.
Thomas is bringing the pain even more efficiently this season than last. First he took Wallace out of Veronica's life; now he's dramtically altered the dynamic between Veronica and her father, obviously not for the better. At this point in her life, those are the two people Veronica simply cannot lose...literally OR figuratively. Yet, through the course of events, Veronica manages to sabotage both relationships...though it wasn't her main intent.
Rob Thomas is far too good a writer for Keith and Veronica to just be fine with one another in the next episode. What Veronica does here is far too serious a matter for that, and frankly, I'm not looking forward to watching them struggle...but it has to be that way for a while.
I also think a bit of distance remains between Veronica and Wallace, demonstrated by the lack of honesty between them in this episode. It appears things are improving rapidly on that front, however...which would be wise, creatively speaking. If Thomas yanked Keith and Wallace simultaneously, Veronica would regress to the dark and isolated teenager of early Season 1. Been there, done that.
Next posts will feature my problems with the ep.
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Post by Rob on Jan 26, 2006 3:15:52 GMT -5
Problem the first: I'll get this one out of the way, because the concern is relatively minor.
The plotline featuring Wallace's true reasons for coming back to Neptune felt forced and uncecessary. It did little more than establish a bit of background for a "filler" episode or two that will have little to do with the ongoing storyline. Personally, I think Wallace is way too important a character to be used as a tool...which is what I believe Thomas is doing. Running from serious responsibility like witnessing a hit and run is absolutely out of character for Wallace; Rob Thomas's own writing has already established this. Wallace is a bastion of integrity and honesty in Veronica's fucked up world.
That doesn't mean Wallace has to be perfect; he's a teenage boy, after all, and there's been more than a little trauma in his life recently. Realistically, he's going to make mistakes...but something as fundamentally wrong as covering up a serious crime? That doesn't fit with everything else we've been told of Wallace Fennel.
Also, it makes it appear that Wallace had no real desire to return to Neptune, other than self-preservation. It makes it appear that he would've had no problem blowing Veronica off for the long term, if only he didn't have to run from responsibility.
Perhaps next week's episode will prove me completely wrong, and we'll learn more details of what actually happened in Chicago...but for the moment, I'm not pleased with this choice of direction. It's fundamentally inconsistent.
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Post by Rob on Jan 26, 2006 3:43:42 GMT -5
I'm sure there is a simple answer for my second concern...but I've been turning it over in my oh-so-limited brain for a couple of hours now, so someone has to clue me in. Why, pray tell, is it necessary for Duncan to run away with his own child? Is he not the biological father? Is he not of legal age? Is he not a member of an influential family that possesses more money than God? Is there not voluminous evidence that specifies Meg's wishes regarding her family? Why should Duncan commit himself to an entire lifetime away from everything he's ever known? He's now a wanted felon for at least many years of his natural life. What purpose does that serve, other than to remove the unlikely possibility that the Mannings would get temporary custody of the baby while Duncan establishes to the court that he's taking regular medication for his mental problems? For that matter, Celeste has as much right to that child's custody as the Mannings...and again, I say, the Kanes have more money than God. They'd find the right lawyer to bribe to right judge to get what they want. That's how things work in Neptune, yes? I imagine Jake and Celeste will provide Duncan with whatever monetary assistance he needs, but what is Duncan supposed to do with his life now? As far as life in America is concerned, it's forfeit until the statute of limitations on kidnapping runs out. He'll have to run Kane Software's Swiss or Cayman Islands Division, I suppose. If the purpose of the storyline was to remove Duncan from the picture, thereby clearing the way for other things in Veronica's life...well, it clearly worked on that level. I just wish it worked a little more logically. Of course, Thomas could be trying to tell us that Veronica and Duncan HAVE made a huge mistake, providing a theme about running away from the problem rather than facing it, just like Wallace in Chicago. If true, that's well and good, thematically speaking...but to my mind, Veronica is far too smart to disregard the full implications of what she's doing. Apparently, we're supposed to believe just that. Whew. Ok, that's better. I feel cleansed.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 26, 2006 7:14:34 GMT -5
I'm sure there is a simple answer for my second concern...but I've been turning it over in my oh-so-limited brain for a couple of hours now, so someone has to clue me in. Why, pray tell, is it necessary for Duncan to run away with his own child? Is he not the biological father? Is he not of legal age? Is he not a member of an influential family that possesses more money than God? Is there not voluminous evidence that specifies Meg's wishes regarding her family? Why should Duncan commit himself to an entire lifetime away from everything he's ever known? He's now a wanted felon for at least many years of his natural life. What purpose does that serve, other than to remove the unlikely possibility that the Mannings would get temporary custody of the baby while Duncan establishes to the court that he's taking regular medication for his mental problems? <snip> Veronica says that Celeste & Jake don't want Duncan to be involved with the baby. So without his parent's support, and with his history of "rages," I can see where Duncan would have a hard time. He's young and jobless and has no source of income other than his parents. Sometimes, he goes beserk for no reason. He abadoned Meg for another girl. It can all be made to look even worse than it sounds on the surface. Duncan is screwed without his parent's support - and he doesn't have his parent's support.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 26, 2006 7:15:22 GMT -5
Problem the first: I'll get this one out of the way, because the concern is relatively minor. The plotline featuring Wallace's true reasons for coming back to Neptune felt forced and uncecessary. It did little more than establish a bit of background for a "filler" episode or two that will have little to do with the ongoing storyline. Personally, I think Wallace is way too important a character to be used as a tool...which is what I believe Thomas is doing. Running from serious responsibility like witnessing a hit and run is absolutely out of character for Wallace; Rob Thomas's own writing has already established this. Wallace is a bastion of integrity and honesty in Veronica's fucked up world. That doesn't mean Wallace has to be perfect; he's a teenage boy, after all, and there's been more than a little trauma in his life recently. Realistically, he's going to make mistakes...but something as fundamentally wrong as covering up a serious crime? That doesn't fit with everything else we've been told of Wallace Fennel. Also, it makes it appear that Wallace had no real desire to return to Neptune, other than self-preservation. It makes it appear that he would've had no problem blowing Veronica off for the long term, if only he didn't have to run from responsibility. Perhaps next week's episode will prove me completely wrong, and we'll learn more details of what actually happened in Chicago...but for the moment, I'm not pleased with this choice of direction. It's fundamentally inconsistent. I think basically, we need to give this one some time. It's just too early to really judge what is going on with Wallace, and why.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 26, 2006 7:17:21 GMT -5
Now that I can finally talk about this episode.... I still have questions about whether Celeste and/or Logan were in on it. Celeste is much more a question than Logan. I'm pretty convinced he was not in on it but that makes me hate that V/D didn't include him Veronica kept this little operation from the two people she trusts most in this world: her father and her best friend. A strong argument can be made that she was/is protecting Wallace by keeping him out of the loop...and Keith, of course, had to be kept in the dark for strategic reasons. My point being, Logan wouldn't even have been a consideration in comparison. In terms of what Veronica and Duncan are undertaking here...frankly, Logan doesn't matter. He had his own agenda in this episode anyway. Agree. The fewer people "in on it," the better, with a plan like that one.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 26, 2006 8:40:01 GMT -5
Back again. Erin, looks like the song is: Old 97s - Adelaide Thanks for the info, Rae! The guitar work just sounded so much like Billy Zoom . . .
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Post by Lola m on Jan 26, 2006 8:42:27 GMT -5
My prediction: The Break-Up was staged. I have thoughts on the whole Veronica/Duncan thing, because there have been a lot of complaints about how affectless he is and how Veronica lets him get away with too much. And I think it's useful to view V/D through the prism of Buffy/Angel; he was her first love...and he gets more of a pass than others. Yes, he does. Plus, there's that whole noble thing he's doing for his baby. He couldn't let Meg's parents raise her - Lilly. I'm not so sure he'd even let his mother anywhere near her either. **nods** It's not like Celeste is necessarily abusive like Meg's parents were, but . . . cold. Plus, sounds like she's made it clear to Duncan that she wouldn't "let" him.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 26, 2006 8:43:20 GMT -5
Ok. I have a problem. Why does Duncan have a MAC? Not that I'm picking on MACs (as if!) but this is Duncan Kane - the impression I take from Kane software is that it's PC-based. Shouldn't that boy have a Dell or something? ETA: Stupid I know... it's all about the advertising. But I'm all about having stupid issues with the little things. Could be he's being passive/aggressive with his choice in computers. Eager to help with the fanwanking. ;D Wank away! Um. I mean . . . ;D
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Post by Lola m on Jan 26, 2006 8:48:14 GMT -5
Back again. Erin, looks like the song is: Old 97s - Adelaide Really? The song when Lamb talks to the America guy and drives away? It didn't sound like the Old 97s. Actually, on rewatching, if it was X, it wasn't "Johnny Hit and Run Pauline." However, my original contention still holds; if the guy you're dating jeapordizes the healthy relationships you have...that's really bad. Yeah, I mean. Kidnapping is very very serious (as Keith points out). And Veronica is kind of left, well, holding the bag as it were - the one still around that the cops and FBI can keep hassling. Granted, I tend to assume it was all Veronica's plan, but . . . Hmmmmmm. So, this season we're seeing Veronica acting on a "bigger stage", as it were. She's doing her same scams and ploys, but it's not just the local cops that she's messing with . . . bigger potential consequences this year. Sort of like how she got into serious trouble heading into the Fitzpatrick's bar.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 26, 2006 8:50:51 GMT -5
Wow, Logan's really got the "Bastard" on. And I cannot BELIEVE that the name of the ep is "Donut Run" Heh.. "Lost?" "You always come" Huh. Logan's deliberately trying to hose her relationship with Duncan. Little Richard needs to be spayed. And shot. Nice public place to do that.. "Kendall got the bedrooms confused" Uh.. that went..... Well. A little empathy there, Veronica? Al Green isn't the traditional "music of pain" but it will do in a pinch. Uh, is Backup now yet a third type of dog? ;D I soooo love Wallace. ;D Well, now . . .
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Post by Lola m on Jan 26, 2006 8:55:39 GMT -5
Now that I can finally talk about this episode.... I still have questions about whether Celeste and/or Logan were in on it. Celeste is much more a question than Logan. I'm pretty convinced he was not in on it but that makes me hate that V/D didn't include him Veronica kept this little operation from the two people she trusts most in this world: her father and her best friend. A strong argument can be made that she was/is protecting Wallace by keeping him out of the loop...and Keith, of course, had to be kept in the dark for strategic reasons. My point being, Logan wouldn't even have been a consideration in comparison. In terms of what Veronica and Duncan are undertaking here...frankly, Logan doesn't matter. He had his own agenda in this episode anyway. **nods** Logan is busy trying to figure out who set him up to look like a murderer. Which is enough of a job for anyone. If Celeste was in on it, well, she's better at acting than I thought. Plus, Duncan on the lam? I don't think she'd ever go for any version of that. I think it was only the folks we saw by the end.
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Post by Pixi on Jan 26, 2006 9:24:24 GMT -5
My prediction: The Break-Up was staged. I have thoughts on the whole Veronica/Duncan thing, because there have been a lot of complaints about how affectless he is and how Veronica lets him get away with too much. And I think it's useful to view V/D through the prism of Buffy/Angel; he was her first love...and he gets more of a pass than others. To put it mildly.
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Post by Pixi on Jan 26, 2006 9:26:39 GMT -5
Yea! I can post live. This should be fun! I've always wanted to post live. I swear I won't give a thing away. All shallow comments here! Teaser starts and already the hits start coming! I've seen it twice already and I still love all the no second given to breath opener.... Hi-ho! Mopey. Sleezy. Backup's back! Ah! The symmetry is INSANE. So, ohmygoodness! Cliff! With the sweaty hair? Is it wrong that I'm dying right now? Oh, Rico is sooo good. And then Vinny! Woohoo! Hee, hee - I missed live zimshan posting? Bummer. Cliff and Vinny and Rico - they are the best things about this (please be aware I'm inserting sarcastic I miss my ship tone here and it's too bad no one can hear this live cause I kill at this) "The Twagical Story of Twu Wuve Crossed Wuvers whoose Story Will Never, ever, ever End". Hee, hee - if only you could see the facials.
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Post by Pixi on Jan 26, 2006 9:29:01 GMT -5
Oh I love that Logan scene. How he takes the cap off of the marker with his teeth? And then he tips his fake head off to Weevil. Oh, the details, Dohring. They kill me. Hehe, the FBI putting Lamb in his place. Never will get old. I still don't understand the point of that bouncer/club business."We need to be careful with this one. She's slippery" "Whoa, Agent Wills. Call for backup" "Choppers?" Oh, I love how snappy this script is. Wet streets. Oh, Hector is SOOO the red herring now. My money's on Thumper, ALL THE WAY. Me too -what the heck did that mean? I agree - Hector is so Red Herring guy he should have it painted on the back of his jacket. Evil Thumper - see Anya is right - it is Bunnies.
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