VM 2:11 Donut Run

[Spaced Out Looney]

Interesting that we don't see the Mannings in this episode. After all, they had custody of the baby that had been kidnapped. We just see Keith and Celeste. (and why not Duncan's dad?)

[Lola m]

ehills said:

Interesting that we don't see the Mannings in this episode. After all, they had custody of the baby that had been kidnapped. We just see Keith and Celeste. (and why not Duncan's dad?)

Well, being all cold hearted and rational and all, I know that it was mostly because they couldn't get the actor and/or didn't want to spend the money or time.

But it actually works really well for the theme, doesn't it? I mean, we only see the "good" daddy, so we are drawn to compare Keith and Duncan.

[raenstorm]

ehills said:

Interesting that we don't see the Mannings in this episode. After all, they had custody of the baby that had been kidnapped. We just see Keith and Celeste. (and why not Duncan's dad?)

As Lola said, I'm sure it was about money. They already had a few extra guest stars in the episode (necessary if you are going to bring in the FBI) so they probably couldn't afford to bring in the Mannings. In some ways, I feel like it works for the episode because it implies that the Mannings care less about the kidnapping than they should - which fits since they wanted Meg to give the baby up for adoption.

As for Papa Kane... well, he's a regular on another show on another network. Not only would he cost money to get, it's probably next to impossible to work it so that he could make an appearance. I know that they got Aly back for Trina but Aly's on CBS, which owns UPN so they'd naturally be more accommodating than Kyle's show/network.

[raenstorm]

Sue. Absolutely wonderful review. I can't believe I missed the whole father/daugther relationship factor of it all so I loved reading your take on it.

Thanks for the great breakdown of how everything happened. I think there's probably still some question as to who was involved and when but you definitely helped clear up things.

The only part I really disagreed with is that Keith would agree or thinks what Duncan did is right. I think he understand what Duncan did because he understands the need to protect your child. I don't think understanding that equates to approving of how Duncan chose to do protect the baby. But, besides that, you did point out things about Duncan's choice that I hadn't completely thought through, like him wanting to get away from his parents and that he wouldn't turn to them because they couldn't protect one Lilly so what's to say they could protect another.

Great job! I loved it.

[Sue]

raenstorm said:

Sue. Absolutely wonderful review. I can't believe I missed the whole father/daugther relationship factor of it all so I loved reading your take on it.

Thanks for the great breakdown of how everything happened. I think there's probably still some question as to who was involved and when but you definitely helped clear up things.

The only part I really disagreed with is that Keith would agree or thinks what Duncan did is right. I think he understand what Duncan did because he understands the need to protect your child. I don't think understanding that equates to approving of how Duncan chose to do protect the baby. But, besides that, you did point out things about Duncan's choice that I hadn't completely thought through, like him wanting to get away from his parents and that he wouldn't turn to them because they couldn't protect one Lilly so what's to say they could protect another.

Great job! I loved it.

Thanks Rae.

I was pleased to find the father/daughter parallel because I felt like it brought out an aspect that wasn't being highlighted in the discussion posts. As well, it seemed to be a point we could all rally round rather than disagree over.

Now, normally, I don't read the board while writing my review, but I was so confused by the ep that I lurked around here quite a bit. That's one reason I included the recap, because it seemed like others were as confused about some plot points as I was and the questions and answers helped me see the flow of action much more clearly than just watching the ep over and over.

And that's part of what fueled my delay.

As to your point in red.

Well, I'll allow that Keith probably thinks that Duncan could have used other means to secure/protect Lilly. Some of Keith's reaction is naturally fueled by Veronica's involvement. Of course he's going to detest any plan which involves his daughter in a crime. [BTW, I'm glad to see that Keith put that blame squarely on Veronica---she's the one who deceived him---and didn't blame Duncan for Veronica's actions.]

Still, I'll reiterate what I said to Fotada:

"Keith may think that Duncan should have made different, less drastic choices, but I doubt that he (Keith) sat down and reasonably considered his choices: "Hmm, if I back Veronica up in her part in this crime am I being a bad role model and enabling future bad behavior? Maybe I should allow her to suffer the consequences of her choices so she will make more mature choices in the future. I mean, we could probably hire a lawyer, plead temporary emotional insanity or some type of pyschological udress by Duncan. Point out that her mother is an alcohol who abandoned her, stole her money, she was almost murdered, she had 7 classmates die in the bus crash, Meg made a deathbed plea. If she cooperates we would probably get her off on probation......"


If Keith had been in Duncan's boots at his age and the same circumstances......I'm just not sure he would have reacted differently.

It still doesn't mean that Duncan used the right means to achieve the ultimate goal of protecting his daughter. Just means that I don't think people 20 years older, maturer, wiser, and whose daughter is not in immediate danger of being handed over for adoption get to be too judgemental.