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Post by Ran on Jan 31, 2006 10:03:21 GMT -5
There's a lot of competition and mutual contempt between the FBI and the local police. I watched X-files,so I know.Heh. But it's true in real life too.
The little demonstration at the beginning with the "team" dialogue was proof of the way the FBI feels about the Sheriff's and his Deputies' capacities to succeed with a case like that.Not much. They feel so superior!.It was really an arrogant way to ask for the two teams to work together. Agent Morris was expressing disdain for Lamb's ambition even if she put it nicely. I think Lamb wanted to get the prize-catch Duncan- and humiliate the FBI.Payback! He knows what Veronica can do.Doesn't like her but doesn't underestimate her like the FBI.He knows (bitter experience) how twisted her plans are.That girl's devious! He suspected the FBI was following false tracks planted by Veronica and decided to act by himself and rub their nose(FBI) in their uncompetence once he would have found Duncan and the baby. Just my interpretation.
I didn't read all the thread.No time.Sorry if this was talked about before.
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Post by Reetta on Jan 31, 2006 11:39:52 GMT -5
It seemed like a very Duncan-like ending for the character to me. His tendency to run and withdraw - the way he doesn't want to live his life the way his parents are trying to direct him toward but at the same time never wants to really confront them in a big way - etc. The baby is such a (oddly enough) simple solution, a simple relationship compared with so many of the others in his life. Yes, I think it’s very much in character for Duncan. Duncan is definitely one of the sharpest pens in the pencil case…er, very smart and the type of people like Duncan, when they e.g. don’t want to talk about something, in most cases either withdraw and keep to themselves completely, or sometimes – if there’s no other way to avoid the situation – opt for making up clever cover up stories or only tell parts of the story (whew, a run on sentence and a half if there ever was one). And they do so with straight faces. Duncan definitely is going to need that “ability” of his while he’s out there. Diversionary tactics, so to speak. In personal life though… as those stories are not exactly flat out lies, you can usually see the potholes in them if you know the person well enough. With strangers, much easier to pull of, of course. Um, I guess I had a point there somewhere ... Might have lost it along the way .
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Post by Reetta on Jan 31, 2006 11:43:47 GMT -5
I can't really put my finger on when I figured out something was up. Like you, the argument didn't immediately trigger me - but the more the events unfurled, the more I kept looking back at the scene and being suspicious of it. So, it's like . . . . I guess it's like it was that scene that tipped me off, but only in conjuction with scenes that came after. I was suspicious something was up from the beginning mainly because of the title "Donut Run," and some vague spoilers I'd come across. But I was completely bamboozled by who was in on it. While many people have speculated as to whether Kendall or Celeste or even Logan was in on the kidnapping plot, I've not read that anyone suspected Lamb as being in on the scheme. If the episode had aired almost as is, but minus the scene where he looks in the trunk of his car in surprise, I would have definitely assumed he was involved. When Veronica said something to him along the lines of, "Knowing what the Mannings are like, how can you not want the baby taken away from them?" my radar blipped. It had been established that he was willing to bend the law a little when it came to thwarting child abuse. And the final scene in "Nobody Puts..." of Lamb watching the Manning's house certainly illustrated that he didn't trust Meg's parents. Further, he seemed to really over-sell his desire to want to be in the FBI, almost as if he wanted Xena Warrior Princess to think he was a rube. Plus, the way he eagerly put his jacket on to head off to Big Bear seemed like another mislead to me, when all along he was sure Duncan was heading to Mexico. It was if he expected the FBI agents to say he couldn't go; he didn't put up much of a fight when he was denied, did he? And knowing they would go instead would leave an opening for him to be the only one available to head to Mexico when the ATM card was flagged. He could then get a message to Duncan that he was taking off so he could stow away in the trunk of his cruiser. That's a lot more plausible than Duncan somehow figuring out exactly when Lamb was leaving for Mexico to give him the opportunity to get to the sheriff's office before Lamb left. And more plausible than Duncan knowing how to break into the trunk of a police car. (Although I realize Veronica has a treasure trove of skeleton keys that might have helped that along). So. I don't really know why I'm posting this, since the episode did air with the scene at the end, and therefore totally blows my whole theory to pieces. But if anyone plans to re-watch the episode, maybe they could watch it with this theory in mind and consider whether it seems like a possible scenario. In my opinion, it would certainly have been a more satisfying scenario. The thought of Lamb being involved occurred to me, too. A couple of other things that you mentioned, especially the over-eagerness that you mentioned: “He seemed to really over-sell his desire to want to be in the FBI, almost as if he wanted Xena Warrior Princess to think he was a rube” and “It was if he expected the FBI agents to say he couldn't go; he didn't put up much of a fight when he was denied, did he?” flashed through my mind, too, when I was watching the episode for the first time. Maybe it’s just that the writers wanted to make us believe that anyone could be part of the plan. ETA: And…that’s what you get for not reading ahead at all. Sue and Lola said that already.
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Post by Pixi on Jan 31, 2006 13:04:20 GMT -5
It's been mentioned several times: "Why is Veronica crying in private wehn she is trying to fool her father about hte "breakup"? I think the simple answer to this is that she was needing to fool her father AND she was thinking about hte fact that if the plan went successfully, she would not be seeing Duncan ever again. So, in a way, they were breaking up. Those thougths combined with her looking over the pictures of them together would surely make her upset. Veronica being the practical gal, also used this to make the "breakup" even that much more convincing. Vlad I agree. I hadn't thought of that when I originally posted and this was pointed out by other people. It makes much more sense that way. Hey - nice avatar by the way.
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Post by Pixi on Jan 31, 2006 13:06:01 GMT -5
Her "You better" grates my cheese. Better to say nothing at all in response to "I love you" than to make a flip remark. It reminds me of when she offered to help Duncan sneak into the hospital to see Meg, and when he tried to thank her, she brushed him off with, "I know, I'm a saint." As Spike would say, "Not bloody likely." Veronica frequently uses humour and flip remarks to cover up her feelings, though. And I'm guessing a lot of what she's covering up in these instances is anger and hurt over Duncan and Meg having a baby together. Not that it's a great response to have all the time. For example, following someone's declaration of love . . . Hey - I'm just thankful we didn't get a "I will always love you Duncan" back. I'll take the flip answer.
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Post by Pixi on Jan 31, 2006 13:22:36 GMT -5
I think the genesis of a serious rift between Keith and Veronica will have a profound effect on the show's immediate future. Therefore I think it's actually the most important part of the episode...which is a good thing, because as far as I know, that area of the storyline is not in dispute. Where the heck is Logan going to live now, by the way? Don't tell me he has to shack up at the Casablancas....casa. Agree that the Keith/Veronica split - when it comes to the future - is the most important thing that happened in the show - and the most dramatic and interesting. Interesting question about Logan's residence. Maybe Logan will just stay put. He can probably afford the place without Duncan. Or . . . he could live in the basement of the high school. I agree. I loved Keith's reaction and Enrico's performance. Hee, hee on the basement. Hee, double hee.
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Post by zimshan on Jan 31, 2006 17:06:05 GMT -5
Interesting on the repeated "You better." I haven't rewatched it, and can't remember the V-to-V "You better" so . . . no theories, other than it suggests there is something similar going on in the conversations. I can say that I thought, "You better" was an interesting response for Veronica to give Duncan. It suggests she's well aware of how much slack she's given him. Her "You better" grates my cheese. Better to say nothing at all in response to "I love you" than to make a flip remark. It reminds me of when she offered to help Duncan sneak into the hospital to see Meg, and when he tried to thank her, she brushed him off with, "I know, I'm a saint." As Spike would say, "Not bloody likely." Well, I have to say, I kind of loved the "You better" line. Because it's consistant with what we've seen all season. It's two-fold. On one hand, it affirms that she's not gonna gives out 'I love you's to a guy just because he says it. Remember back to NitW when Logan tells her he's in love with her. Her response, "The guys things will say to get past second base". On the other hand, it reaffirms how Veronica refuses to be expressive with her own emotions this year. She makes things into a joke. Remember in DE, when Keith gets all emotional, "I can't imagine where I'd be if you had gotten back on that bus." She responds with a joke. And he tells her, "You don't have to make a joke, you know." But she says, "Sure I do." It all relates kind of nicely...
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Post by Sue on Jan 31, 2006 17:12:55 GMT -5
Episode is being rerun again tonight at 8 pm on UPN (opposite the State of the Union).
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 31, 2006 17:43:05 GMT -5
S'cubies - you're in luck!! You're in for a treat! Seems my partner Sue has really outdone herself with her latest review! Not only does she provide some great insights to last week's Veronica Mars episode with her analysis, she gives us a much needed synopsis of that challenging-to-follow episode 2-11 Donut Run. Thank you, SUE! for your effort this week! S'cubies - make a run for something better than donuts, and head right for the S3 website to read Sue's latest review: DONUT RUN for the Border.It's yummier than a fresh Dunkin's Glazed Donut, and a whole lot less fattening!
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Post by zimshan on Jan 31, 2006 17:46:21 GMT -5
If you haven't seen it already, cindywrites did a hilarious post over on LJ where Buffy, Spike, Willow, Giles, Xander, and Angel join in on the VM implosion about Donut Run. You can find it here. Read the comments. Guaranteed to laugh your ass off... ETA: Oh, damn. Sue's review is up and I can't get to it. Anyone want to post the link for it?
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 31, 2006 17:46:25 GMT -5
Her "You better" grates my cheese. Better to say nothing at all in response to "I love you" than to make a flip remark. It reminds me of when she offered to help Duncan sneak into the hospital to see Meg, and when he tried to thank her, she brushed him off with, "I know, I'm a saint." As Spike would say, "Not bloody likely." Well, I have to say, I kind of loved the "You better" line. Because it's consistant with what we've seen all season. It's two-fold. On one hand, it affirms that she's not gonna gives out 'I love you's to a guy just because he says it. Remember back to NitW when Logan tells her he's in love with her. Her response, "The guys things will say to get past second base". On the other hand, it reaffirms how Veronica refuses to be expressive with her own emotions this year. She makes things into a joke. Remember in DE, when Keith gets all emotional, "I can't imagine where I'd be if you had gotten back on that bus." She responds with a joke. And he tells her, "You don't have to make a joke, you know." But she says, "Sure I do." It all relates kind of nicely... Yes - I felt the same way. The "You better" gave me hope that Veronica isn't being to overly schmoopy about this after all . . . what I mean is, that a part of her is aware that Duncan was not exactly Mr Perfect through all this, and HE OWES HER BIG TIME for all the slack she's given him . . . and it all adds up to Veronica not being comfortable with declaring her undying love at that point in time. Deep down inside, I don't think she's sure how she feels about a lot of things right now.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 31, 2006 17:51:19 GMT -5
If you haven't seen it already, cindywrites did a hilarious post over on LJ where Buffy, Spike, Willow, Giles, Xander, and Angel join in on the VM implosion about Donut Run. You can find it here. Read the comments. Guaranteed to laugh your ass off... ETA: Oh, damn. Sue's review is up and I can't get to it. Anyone want to post the link for it? A direct link for it is here: www.soulfulspike.com/vmars/VMep2-11.htmThough . . . you should be able to get to it by going to the S'cubie website www.soulfulspike.com - there's a link at the top of this posting board (the small banner with "S'cubie website, Board Rules, Smileys, Glamours&More.") Enjoy!
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Post by zimshan on Jan 31, 2006 18:01:11 GMT -5
If you haven't seen it already, cindywrites did a hilarious post over on LJ where Buffy, Spike, Willow, Giles, Xander, and Angel join in on the VM implosion about Donut Run. You can find it here. Read the comments. Guaranteed to laugh your ass off... ETA: Oh, damn. Sue's review is up and I can't get to it. Anyone want to post the link for it? A direct link for it is here: www.soulfulspike.com/vmars/VMep2-11.htmThough . . . you should be able to get to it by going to the S'cubie website www.soulfulspike.com - there's a link at the top of this posting board (the small banner with "S'cubie website, Board Rules, Smileys, Glamours&More.") Enjoy! Oh, thanks Spring! I don't know why I haven't been able to get to it through the actual page. Somehow, ever since 202, the rest of the links for all subsequent eps don't show up on my computer. I've been getting to them through Rae's links for months. Hehe.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 31, 2006 18:11:24 GMT -5
A direct link for it is here: www.soulfulspike.com/vmars/VMep2-11.htmThough . . . you should be able to get to it by going to the S'cubie website www.soulfulspike.com - there's a link at the top of this posting board (the small banner with "S'cubie website, Board Rules, Smileys, Glamours&More.") Enjoy! Oh, thanks Spring! I don't know why I haven't been able to get to it through the actual page. Somehow, ever since 202, the rest of the links for all subsequent eps don't show up on my computer. I've been getting to them through Rae's links for months. Hehe. Oh - how wierd! I will try to remember to put links into my announcements. I meant it when I said Sue outdid herself on this one. I think it's one of her best yet.
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Post by Karen on Jan 31, 2006 23:09:06 GMT -5
Kudos on your review, Sue! #claps#
As Spring said, you really did outdo yourself.
I liked your mini-synopsis of the episode, too. It's nice having a lot of the details spelled out in black and white for reference - especially considering my spotty memory and no time for rewatching.
Absolutely agreed and loved your observation:
I believe that the True Love Stories illustrated in this episode are really the ones between Veronica and Keith, and Duncan and Lilly. And I sincerely hope and believe that those will never end.
What a great way to look at the fortune cookie meaning! True love stories - as love for a child is a prime example - never do end.
I don't fault Duncan for taking the baby to Mexico (hopefully he didn't make a detour to the Island of the Lost - Hee!), and I agree with you when you say: I firmly believe Duncan himself wants to be gone from his parents. Who wouldn't? And now that he's off his medication - which I think that his parents used to control him, he has a chance to make his own way.
It may be for the first time in his life that Duncan has found some purpose - a reason to truly live in the real world.
Thank you for an awesome review! You rock the S'cubie house!
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