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Post by artemis on Oct 25, 2006 10:13:54 GMT -5
thinking about this episode this morning, i kept coming back to this theme:
"what do you want the answer to your question to be: what you hope to find, or the truth?"
it seems like this episode was all about preconceptions and trying to control outcomes -- from opening up at veronica trying to control the conversation between keith and logan, onwards through the episode.
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Post by Pixi on Oct 25, 2006 10:31:46 GMT -5
Oh good catch on the shoes. I haven't a clue.
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Post by leftylady on Oct 25, 2006 11:55:27 GMT -5
posting without the chance to read the thread:
Yahoo!!! VM is back!! Spread the word. This week just feels like a return to vintage VM after the tediously "light" intros to the new setting/new characters. Loved Veronica, Keith and Logan in this. Dick was eponymous as usual. Light on Wallace but good to see him. (sniff no Weevil).
Rob T had said in a July IGN interview that "I pretty self-consciously knew, okay, for a lot of Gilmore Girls fans, this is going to be their first look at Veronica Mars. And so, you'll notice the show actually will start off very sort of breezy, and chattery and funny…" The operative word being "start". So if you know anyone who's been avoiding VM this year, try and get them to give it another chance. I'm glad I stuck around.
leftylady, who may get the chance to add more comments later
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Post by Matthew on Oct 25, 2006 12:41:38 GMT -5
This was a great episode! But--I felt like I was being hit over the head with a clue bat, and yet--I remain clueless. There were at least three references to shoes & feet in this episode. * Keith looks at Veronica's shoes and asks her if she's majoring in Women's Studies. (What was he trying to say about her shoes?) There is a closeup of her backless high-heeled shoes. * The camera lingered on Dick's feet as he wiped them on the Mars' welcome mat. Would Dick really be the type of person to worry about not tracking dirt into someone's place? If anything, he'd wipe his feet on the way out! * There was a shot of Laura San Giacomo's shoes lying on the floor while she was curled up on the couch talking to Keith. What does this mean??? I am so glad I don't have to review this ep! The scenes with Dick and Veronica were hysterical. The Keith/Veronica/Logan interaction was crackling with tension. When Logan punched not!Charlie, I immediately wondered what Rachael would think. But me, I think it was well-deserved. I wonder what kind of fall out there will be from Logan going on Larry King? Will Keith lose (more) respect for him? The guy at the convenience store was a hoot. Did Veronica show the ATM picture to Parker? It wasn't clear to me, but it seems like that would be the smart thing to do. Say to her, "So, this guy was the last guy known to be with you before you were raped. Do you know who he is?" When it came out that Chip was in his room naked and sweaty and that he wouldn't say who he was in flagrante with, I immediately thought: gay. And with all the speculation last season that Dick was gay, and with them both having bruised knuckles, I wonder if Dick is his naked, sweaty friend. Were Dick and Chip groping each other in the grope room? Maybe they grabbed at the girls to cover up what they were really up to, and that's how they ended up with the bruised knuckles. It means you are drowning in footwear. I think that there's more to Chu Hsiang than meets the eye: all his frat brothers dismiss him as "an idiot" and there's a chance (to me) he's there just to meet a "diversity" quota. And as we know, on this show, nothing is as it may seem. I think Chu is deeper than that, and may be tied in some way. (possibly only because of the Asian-ness of the man in the ATM photo, but damfino.) The convenience store guy was funny as hell. And yeah, one would hope that Veronica would show the picture to Parker: and share her findings with the (laughable) police department. But we need more mystery to last the season, I spose. And I've been on the "Dick is a big ol' closeted gay" train for a while now, but I don't know how many others of his brothers he has on it with him.
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Post by Matthew on Oct 25, 2006 12:46:11 GMT -5
I really, really enjoyed tonight's episode. I am completely unspoiled this year - and as Kramer would say "loving every minute" and I was sort of expecting a return to closed off Veronica after last week's openness. The old one step forward, two steps back dance. But lo and behold girlfriend Veronica was still there. And Kristen was still selling it. Be still my happy, happy shipper heart. So many terrific moments between Veronica and Logan: 1. The do not mention seeing me naked/milky thighs conversation. Sigh! 2. Girlfriend Veronica being supportive and doing her thing not in a nasty, I'll get you or suspicious Logan did something way to solve the money issue and the half brother issue. 3. Still touching, still caressing, still loving. Sigh. We talked about things we needed to talk about. Veronica mentioned her rape. Hello - yes! Granted not so much about it but at least acknowledging it's existence. Logan's child abuse. Hello long lost plotline - how are you? Creepy ass pear story. Gah. Logan was perky! He was surfing. And then he was angsty. It was Loganpalooza acting wise. I do have an issue with the mumbling this time - usually doesn't bother me but I had to rewind a couple of scenes to catch some lines but the pain in the ending. The adoring delight in Logan's eyes watching Keith and Veronica banter. The surfing, the accent when he and Logan part 2 came up to V on the beach - so, much, love. Great guest star: The chemistry between Keith and Laura (is she really named Harmony? I mean really? Gah. What a horrible name for her. Harmony belongs to vacuous students who become clueless vampires. Please make a note) Moving on. I really enjoyed smitten kitten Keith and Laura rocked her lines. For once I enjoyed Keith's scenes and didn't want to fast forward. Dick - ah Dick. I just can't help it. I love Dick. The visit to the apartment, the snarky lines, the rat trap (hee, hee, hee and Veronica's acknowledgement that the prank was pretty damn awesome). And seriously - how could I not love a show where Logan Huntzberger (Matt C.) gets punched in the face? The only thing better would have been if Christopher had been wandering by and Logan had punched him in the face too. My brain would have exploded with delight. So the guy in the ATM photo - was he the rapist? Can't be or mystery arc over right? So who was he? At least we were on the rapetrail this ep and all the scenes just nicely intertwined for me. I, too, am glad that Veronica actually seem to be making an effort to be a true trusting, supporting girlfriend to Logan, and Logan, well, he just bleeds so pretty. I do like his sense of humor. I think it's one of the things that's saved him throughout the years: that even when he's angriest at the world, he's laughing at the world's silly or stupid antics, too.
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Post by Michelle on Oct 25, 2006 12:58:04 GMT -5
But--I felt like I was being hit over the head with a clue bat, and yet--I remain clueless. There were at least three references to shoes & feet in this episode. yeah, i'm not sure what we're supposed to think about that, either. maybe shoes signal intimacy? ;D I think you might be on to something. And people always say that shoes say a lot about a person. Keith was definitely judging Veronica based on the shoes she was wearing. And Harmony kicked off her shoes to talk with Keith, which definitely expressed a certain level of comfort with him. Dick wiping his feet before entering Veronica's place was his way of looking down on her meager home, I believe. You're right, there's a distinction. And Keith went on talk shows to promote his book last year, so I don't think he can judge, really. Thank you for pointing that out!! I was confused--those long-haired blonde, sorority types all look similar to me. And I really don't think Veronica feels threatened by Dick, sexually or otherwise. When Dick showed up at her door, Keith offered to kick him out, but Veronica declined. She was fine being alone in the apartment with Dick. If she had a suspicion that he was the rapist, I'm not sure she'd take that chance.
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Post by Squeemonster on Oct 25, 2006 14:05:02 GMT -5
I don't have anything specific to say about the ep other than I loved it and thought it rocked. ;D Dialogue was great and made me feel like the VM that I love is back. And Logan broke my heart.
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Post by Sharky on Oct 25, 2006 17:05:25 GMT -5
Very nice. One of my favorite pieces of the episode was Veronica looking at the door to Parker and Mac's room. Parker has a piece of poster board on it with her name and all sorts of girly stuff. Mac's scribbled her name on a piece of masking tape and applied it to the door. Nice contrast.
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Post by Karen on Oct 26, 2006 9:10:01 GMT -5
This was a great episode! But--I felt like I was being hit over the head with a clue bat, and yet--I remain clueless. There were at least three references to shoes & feet in this episode. * Keith looks at Veronica's shoes and asks her if she's majoring in Women's Studies. (What was he trying to say about her shoes?) There is a closeup of her backless high-heeled shoes. * The camera lingered on Dick's feet as he wiped them on the Mars' welcome mat. Would Dick really be the type of person to worry about not tracking dirt into someone's place? If anything, he'd wipe his feet on the way out! * There was a shot of Laura San Giacomo's shoes lying on the floor while she was curled up on the couch talking to Keith. What does this mean??? I am so glad I don't have to review this ep! The scenes with Dick and Veronica were hysterical. The Keith/Veronica/Logan interaction was crackling with tension. When Logan punched not!Charlie, I immediately wondered what Rachael would think. But me, I think it was well-deserved. I wonder what kind of fall out there will be from Logan going on Larry King? Will Keith lose (more) respect for him? The guy at the convenience store was a hoot. Did Veronica show the ATM picture to Parker? It wasn't clear to me, but it seems like that would be the smart thing to do. Say to her, "So, this guy was the last guy known to be with you before you were raped. Do you know who he is?" When it came out that Chip was in his room naked and sweaty and that he wouldn't say who he was in flagrante with, I immediately thought: gay. And with all the speculation last season that Dick was gay, and with them both having bruised knuckles, I wonder if Dick is his naked, sweaty friend. Were Dick and Chip groping each other in the grope room? Maybe they grabbed at the girls to cover up what they were really up to, and that's how they ended up with the bruised knuckles. Shoes! I noticed the shoes and feet in a couple of shots, but promptly forgot. Maybe it's the whole dressing the part, but being something else deep inside? That would fit with your Dick theory. There was that whole encounter with the transvestite last year that his brother set up, too. Could be Beaver knew more than he let on. Oh - and not to mention the incongruity in their names. Huh! Very interesting and good thoughts.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 26, 2006 12:14:10 GMT -5
thinking about this episode this morning, i kept coming back to this theme: "what do you want the answer to your question to be: what you hope to find, or the truth?" it seems like this episode was all about preconceptions and trying to control outcomes -- from opening up at veronica trying to control the conversation between keith and logan, onwards through the episode. **nods nods nods nods** I like it! It's an underlying theme in Veronica and Logan's relationship, it's an underlying theme in Veronica and Keith's relationship. It's an important aspect of solving the rape mystery. And it's a good theme for kids finding their way into adulthood.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 26, 2006 12:15:20 GMT -5
posting without the chance to read the thread: Yahoo!!! VM is back!! Spread the word. This week just feels like a return to vintage VM after the tediously "light" intros to the new setting/new characters. Loved Veronica, Keith and Logan in this. Dick was eponymous as usual. Light on Wallace but good to see him. (sniff no Weevil). Rob T had said in a July IGN interview that "I pretty self-consciously knew, okay, for a lot of Gilmore Girls fans, this is going to be their first look at Veronica Mars. And so, you'll notice the show actually will start off very sort of breezy, and chattery and funny…" The operative word being "start". So if you know anyone who's been avoiding VM this year, try and get them to give it another chance. I'm glad I stuck around. leftylady, who may get the chance to add more comments later **bounce, bounce** Yes!! It was such a strong ep! I mean, particularly, that Veronica's character came across very strongly - really showed her at her best!!
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Post by Reetta on Oct 27, 2006 5:48:45 GMT -5
The episode aired three days ago and I still haven’t read anyone else’s comments but I am still going to chime in with some of my own. I’ve watched all the episodes… I should really try to get back to commenting on them, too. Because I want to . I may have liked last week’s episode more but man this one was good, too. Full of sadness and angst and then funny and exhilarating. It was good to see Keith and Logan at the same table. In episode 2 I expected to see a Wallace-Logan heart-to-heart, and Wallace to squeeze some “useful” personal information out of Logan in the prisoner experiment. While that didn’t exactly happen, I like the way Diane Ruggiero pairs up the actors. This episode – especially the beginning - made me positively giddy. I’ll say it again: Logan and Keith (and Veronica’s worried “No jokes, quips or innuendos”. Yeah, like that’s possible.) And then Keith and Dick. Dick does not often have any sense of how to act in certain situations but it’s endearing how he tries to be affable and gracious in his own misguided way when he’s up to something … I love him more and more every day. “I can’t believe that I’ve known you forever and you’ve never had me over”. Heh. Dick’s funny. A play date. Heh. “You get to be the spy who loves me”. Hee. “Whipped guys make the worst friends”. Hee. “Who knew that when opportunity knocked it would look like a horny surfer?” Hee. Some very Dick-esque comments followed by classic Veronica. Maybe spending my days with seventh grade types has affected my sense of humor but I find this at times seemingly juvenile humor quite amusing. There were many situations in this episode where people tried to make an impression on someone, or are worried about how people see them. People trying to act decent, or at least attempting a decent conversation. People trying to make themselves look good (the charity that is not so much a charity), and finally the importance of having an honest, respectable job and being a contributing member of society, the good or not so good family life. I liked Veronica’s voiceovers in this episode (as well as in last week’s). Good old times: Veronica continues to earn herself a few enemies. Last week Veronica owned up to some of her issues, but more often… she makes other people own up to theirs. She may seem like a bitch to some people for doing so but that is probably mostly because they are not ready to admit that in most cases she is right and they’ve made a mistake, which they are not ready to see or admit to themselves. Better be looking for the truth rather than a suitable explanation. Dick talks about torture and about Veronica torturing him; he is in a difficult situation with his frat brothers. Logan mentions “torture” as a possibility to sort out some of his problems (Avi Kaufman? Hold him out of a window by his ankles). Then there’s the mental torture of lost opportunities, which is going to hurt much longer than someone just momentarily taking advantage of you. Poor Logan. People just keep betraying him. The scandals – he just keeps getting involuntarily involved in those. But I am also glad he’s still been able to retain some (or most) of his snark to deal with those situations. General commentary of the season (I sort of fast forwarded through the whole season again last night): I definitely like the whole look of the Hearst campus and the outside shots a lot. Piz- While I cannot exactly say that I like him, he doesn’t annoy me. Who knows, maybe the character will grow on me. Or rather, if he’d just stay and be the (harmless) dork slash sidekick he’s now, he’ll be fine. Parker- of the two new P’s, she’s definitely my favourite. I’d hang with Julie Gonzalo any time. I liked her scenes in Welcome Wagon, but I liked her scenes in this week’s episode even more. Since I know that sooner or later the Logan-Veronica relationship is doomed and that the TPTB “have to” set up Veronica with someone, I would much rather see her with Pop from last week than with Piz. I’m spoiler free so I’m not saying that is going to happen, I just feel that’s the direction they may be heading to. Logan and Veronica- I was afraid we were not going to see them being happy and being together at all but go straight to misery, angst and bad feelings but I’m glad that’s not the case. Logan- While there may not have been many occasions yet where they have directly addressed last season, you can just hear the sadness in his voice in most scenes. He seems more, I don’t know, uncertain. Veronica – Strong and unrelenting, but also showing (some of) her feelings. I like her like this. What I’d like to see in the next few episodes is Mac to be back as soon as possible. A few more friendship moments between Wallace and Veronica would be nice, too. Sans Piz, thank you very much. I think the transition to college is working out well. The same social environment is still there – it still feels like Neptune.
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Post by Reetta on Oct 27, 2006 5:59:38 GMT -5
I really, really enjoyed tonight's episode. I am completely unspoiled this year - and as Kramer would say "loving every minute" and I was sort of expecting a return to closed off Veronica after last week's openness. The old one step forward, two steps back dance. But lo and behold girlfriend Veronica was still there. And Kristen was still selling it. Be still my happy, happy shipper heart. So many terrific moments between Veronica and Logan: 1. The do not mention seeing me naked/milky thighs conversation. Sigh! 2. Girlfriend Veronica being supportive and doing her thing not in a nasty, I'll get you or suspicious Logan did something way to solve the money issue and the half brother issue. 3. Still touching, still caressing, still loving. Sigh. We talked about things we needed to talk about. Veronica mentioned her rape. Hello - yes! Granted not so much about it but at least acknowledging it's existence. Logan's child abuse. Hello long lost plotline - how are you? Creepy ass pear story. Gah. Logan was perky! He was surfing. And then he was angsty. It was Loganpalooza acting wise. I do have an issue with the mumbling this time - usually doesn't bother me but I had to rewind a couple of scenes to catch some lines but the pain in the ending. The adoring delight in Logan's eyes watching Keith and Veronica banter. The surfing, the accent when he and Logan part 2 came up to V on the beach - so, much, love. Great guest star: The chemistry between Keith and Laura (is she really named Harmony? I mean really? Gah. What a horrible name for her. Harmony belongs to vacuous students who become clueless vampires. Please make a note) Moving on. I really enjoyed smitten kitten Keith and Laura rocked her lines. For once I enjoyed Keith's scenes and didn't want to fast forward.Dick - ah Dick. I just can't help it. I love Dick. The visit to the apartment, the snarky lines, the rat trap (hee, hee, hee and Veronica's acknowledgement that the prank was pretty damn awesome). And seriously - how could I not love a show where Logan Huntzberger (Matt C.) gets punched in the face? The only thing better would have been if Christopher had been wandering by and Logan had punched him in the face too. My brain would have exploded with delight. So the guy in the ATM photo - was he the rapist? Can't be or mystery arc over right? So who was he? At least we were on the rapetrail this ep and all the scenes just nicely intertwined for me. I didn’t remember that they played a couple in Just Shoot Me at first, but definitely enjoyed seeing them back together, and I also kept thinking about the other Harmony when I heard her name. When I first started watching VM, EC was for a long time “that guy from Just Shoot Me” to me. Now I’d have a hard time seeing him as anything but Keith Mars. I feel like they could maybe use the guest stars a bit more in the marketing of the show. Don’t know if they actually do, they just don’t appear to be doing so on the CW site. How’s the show doing in ratings, by the way?
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Post by Lola m on Oct 27, 2006 7:21:47 GMT -5
Very nice. One of my favorite pieces of the episode was Veronica looking at the door to Parker and Mac's room. Parker has a piece of poster board on it with her name and all sorts of girly stuff. Mac's scribbled her name on a piece of masking tape and applied it to the door. Nice contrast. Oh, I noticed that too and thought it was just perfect!
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Post by Lola m on Oct 27, 2006 7:41:32 GMT -5
The episode aired three days ago and I still haven’t read anyone else’s comments but I am still going to chime in with some of my own. I’ve watched all the episodes… I should really try to get back to commenting on them, too. Because I want to . Reetta!! Yes, come and comment - we miss you. **nods** Really brought out the Veronica in Veronica, too. To me, at least. I like this writer's pairings too. I especially have been enjoying the scenes with Keith. With Logan, with Dick. I keep thinking that even knowing someome like Keith could make such a huge difference in each of those guys' lives. He's still such a . . . . Dick! ;D And I know what you mean - we're seeing how he's basically just clueless and that sometimes he is actually trying, in his own hapless way. And it's always fun to watch what he's going to do next. So. Totally. Funny! Part of it is his delivery. It's like . . . . there's not even a sarcastic tone, he's just saying it virtually straight. And that just makes it even funnier. **nods** Lots of "this is my role that I am playing or trying to play". This idea of "do you want the truth or not?" that Veronica was talking about seems like a very important element or clue to me. Cool! I didn't even notice the repeating themes of torture - and they match the earlier ep with the "guard & prisoner" experiment. Also, it fits the image that the raped girls present after their heads have been shaved. Which I think is an important element itself. Is it intended to make sure they can't not be seen as victims - can't hide? Is it to force them to feel more altered? I'm really interested to find out the solution to this mystery and why this additional step is being taken by the rapist. I at least want to see a believeable storyline (which I think we've been having so far). A relationship arc that feels right to me will be fine no matter which way it goes. **nods** I think we're being given hints - the issues with not going to classses, the gambling, etc. And we haven't seen much yet about how he's dealing with his father's death. Must be a whole tangled web of feelings in that kid. Veronica was one of my favorite things in this ep. From her conversation with Parker to the way she worked her detective skillz to her dedication to finding out the real truth - man, she just totally rocked, in my book! Wallace and Mac and Weevil!! I definitely want to see more of all 3! It feels right to me.
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