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Post by Vlad on Oct 27, 2006 7:57:36 GMT -5
Okay, i read through the entire thread... and I guess I am the only one that wasn't knocked out by this episode. Last week's I loved.. even commented to my watching buddy "there we go! That's classica Veronica Mars!" But this episode... we both looked at each other after it was over and went "meh." Maybe it's that we are both guys. I don't know. We were both completely bored by the Keith storyline this week and that is even with me being a fan of hte two actors clear back from Just Shoot Me days. I didn't like the Logan storyline. It was depressing on top of depressing and also managed at hte same time to be a little too.. over the top or something. On thinking about it right now, I think what it is, is that I am not fond of hte "rapist" storyline. So that part didn;t rock for me at all, the Logan storyline I found to be ... well, I said above... and then Keith's MotW turned out to be a complete snoozefest for me. In fact... I feel Keith is being way under used this season, so far. I know.. it's only episode 4, but.. I wiush they'd get something really going. Oh well, not all is lost*. Every season VM has a couple of episodes that leave me a little cold. This is more than made up for by the other 19-20 that completely rock. Just.. waiting for hte rocking to start! Vlad *Speaking of LOST... this week's LOST episode didn't really click for me either(a Sawyer ep, no less!)... and I taped and watched both of these shows back to back as usual, VM then LOST. So, hmmm let's hope BSG rocks on Friday.  At least last night's Supernatural was an above normal episode. V. |
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Post by Michelle on Oct 27, 2006 8:33:16 GMT -5
Dick does not often have any sense of how to act in certain situations but it’s endearing how he tries to be affable and gracious in his own misguided way when he’s up to something … I love him more and more every day. “I can’t believe that I’ve known you forever and you’ve never had me over”. Heh. Dick’s funny. I agree Reetta, Dick was a delight. And that's not something I thought I'd ever be saying! He's selfish, stuck-up and well--stupid, but funny just the same. Excellent observations! And there were lots of comments on people's appearances--like Veronica wearing beige, Keith's comment on her shoes, etc. Wow! I didn't even catch that. And add that to the rapist taking his(?) victim's hair. Lot's of violent images. I like him just fine. I just think he has zero sexual chemistry with Veronica, and so if RT plans to set them up as a couple in the future, he's failing miserably. In "Wichita Linebacker," for example, Piz punched her in the arm like she was one of his buddies. I don't see that developing into anything beyond friendship. I thought Veronica had a slight crush on Kurt myself, but he went back to Kansas, so I guess that's out. Thanks for joining in the conversation, Reetta! |
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Post by Michelle on Oct 27, 2006 8:46:59 GMT -5
Maybe it's that we are both guys. I don't know. We were both completely bored by the Keith storyline this week and that is even with me being a fan of hte two actors clear back from Just Shoot Me days. I thought the actors EC and LSG played their parts a little *too* subtly. The sexual chemistry just wasn't there. And I could tell immediately that Harmony's husband wasn't responding to the woman's kiss, so it wasn't shocking to me when it turned out he wasn't having an affair. It was out of character, imo, for Keith to first show the photo of her husband, and THEN play the audio of him turning the woman down. I didn't find it depressing, but I was surprised at how open Logan was with his newfound "brother." I wonder if he has ever shared those stories with Veronica? I've read a lot of complaints along this line. The Lilly murder case worked well, because well, she was already dead, and so the case had the luxury of developing slowly. But the rapes are ongoing, and therefore it's more alarming that Veronica is allowing the case to simmer on the back burner episode after episode. We know the case won't be solved until the 9th episode, so be prepared for it to drag on even longer. I still like the show very much, but I do think some of the complaints I've read about the show are quite valid. I still love that the show makes me think, and is written with a sharp wit. And of course, the acting is well above average, especially by the key players. It's still *my* show. |
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Post by Rob on Oct 27, 2006 21:36:01 GMT -5
I'm struck with the need to ramble. While it might seem like fun to write a television show, I can only imagine how confusing it must be to read assorted message boards. I'm trying to think of the last time there's been a unanimously acclaimed episode of Veronica Mars. This isn't meant as any sort of insult to the dedicated fandom at all, by the way - obviously everyone will have their own opinions and feelings - but it's mind-boggling just how much people differ from week to week when it comes to VM. Maybe I'm just getting addled with middle age, but I seem to recall Buffy fans being far more predictable. You knew who would automatically enthuse over certain episodes, depending on a couple of factors: 1. Who got the most screen time 2. Who did unsavory things that forced their online supporters to jump to their favorite's defense Big example? Whenever Angel or Spike was portrayed in a flattering light by Buffy in later years, I could almost hear the steam shooting out of certain fans' ears. "Here we go," I would think with a grin. Which isn't to say I was immune; in those extremely rare late-season moments when Xander was allowed significant screen time (bitter much, Rob?)  , I waxed poetic. I suppose I'll do the same if (or when) Wallace is given more to do; if nothing else, I'm consistent. Having said that, of the 144 Buffy eps, I can honestly say I was truly displeased with the quality 2 or 3 times altogether. I may have hated the viewpoint or storyline on occasion, but nearly never the way they were executed. The writing and acting was always amazingly sharp and solid, time after time. Of the 48 aired eps of VM thus far, I can pretty much say the same thing. Storylines aside, the ability with which said stories are told has never let me down. I've yet to see a VM episode and say to myself: "Jeez, that wasn't very good at all." I don't know; maybe I'm so jaded by all the dreck that actually makes it to air that I'm willing to cut smart and uncompromising shows more slack. Hell, even shows with potential and promise rarely make it above mediocre: Jericho, Smallville, Ghost Whisperer...I've seen decent episodes of all three, but too often they're cliched and clumsy. Even Lost and Gilmore Girls - both of which I love - can be disappointingly slow here and there. I think it's more likely the lack of Duncan in the mix: whatever else he may have done, that character stirred passions in fans. Without his polarizing presence to focus on, fans are looking for something - or someone - to reach them on a more visceral level. VM might spin its wheels now and then (I'm in the "Yes, Logan's a vulnerable victim of his childhood. We GET IT ALREADY" crowd, for example)...but the writers and actors have yet to mail it in. Even when the themes repeat themselves, they're shown in entertaining fashion. I, for one, am going to try to do a better job appreciating what I have, rather than get too caught up in Wallace being relegated to part-time character status due to Logan's popularity. I made that mistake once when Spike's surge in fandom resulted in Xander going to the back burner, and in retrospect it tainted my view of an amazing show while it was still airing. Ok, ramble completed. Finally.  |
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Post by leftylady on Oct 28, 2006 12:04:14 GMT -5
Great guest star: The chemistry between Keith and Laura ( is she really named Harmony? I mean really? Gah. What a horrible name for her. Harmony belongs to vacuous students who become clueless vampires. Please make a note) I loved it that she was named Harmony. Harmony Chase. We’ve had a Kendall and now a Chase. I’m waiting for a Cordelia to go along with the Harmony. leftylady |
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Post by KMInfinity on Oct 28, 2006 14:18:44 GMT -5
I enjoyed the episode again this week, but...
Okay maybe this is pretty obvious stuff (gotta go read the reviews and find out what significant clues I missed) but it seems clear to me that the rapist is going to be someone we'd probably rather NOT have it be. In the four episodes there have been too many examples of people being unjustly accused or suspected.
Which has me wondering about these mini-arcs. I wanted to give the concept a chance but I'm worried. I haven't checked just how long the first "arc" is supposed to last. If it's only 6-8 episodes before the rapist is revealed, who do we have as a suspect? Piz? The dorm res counselor? Dick? Wallace? (Yikes) There just doesn't seem to be a time frame to explore the big mystery, set up a great villain, develop red herrings, explore main character developments, and focus each episode on a MOTW that parallels and mirrors the big mystery. Now, we're about halfway thru the arc, so maybe I'll be blown away by the resolution, but it sure doesn't seem like it's gonna happen.
(Rob, I enjoyed your ramble.)
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Post by Vlad on Oct 29, 2006 8:44:45 GMT -5
I'm struck with the need to ramble. <snipped...not do to unimportance but rather for space constraints! Rob always has some of the best posts! Keep ramblin', my ramblin' man. > I, for one, am going to try to do a better job appreciating what I have, rather than get too caught up in Wallace being relegated to part-time character status due to Logan's popularity. I made that mistake once when Spike's surge in fandom resulted in Xander going to the back burner, and in retrospect it tainted my view of an amazing show while it was still airing. Ok, ramble completed. Finally. Rob, I think I agree with everything you had to say. VM IS one of hte best shows on tv currently, and arguably one of hte best shows I have ever seen on television...period. And I am including both previous seasons and the handful of eps we have so far this year. As I noted in my own post, there are only a couple episodes a season thus far that jsut don't do it for me. And when I say "don;t do it" I mean they jsut didnt connect with me. The quality is there. The acting, the dialogue. This season I am having a hard time connecting with the rapist storyline...so far. I had problems connecting with the bus crash storyline for a good first half of last season... but the MotW's (both V's and Keith's) held my interest. So far this season the MotW's (both characters) have not as much. I am not sure why. I feel a certain difference in writing. The stories are a little too pat... there are a few too many "pure luck" devices. Old VM hardly EVER relied on contrivances. I rarely "saw it coming" before, or even if I did, I was impressed with the twist anyway. Also, I think we need some more of hte cast. I miss our favorite shyster... I miss Sheriff Lamb. Anyway... I agree with your sentiment, and I hope it wasnt my somewhat negative opinion of hte episode that propelled you to write the above. I still love the show and will continue to watch it wach week. I loved the 3rd episode and felt like VM was back on stride with it. It's still msut see tv for me, and I don;t see that changing, even if the show stays exactly like it's been so far this season. Vlad |
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Post by LadyDi on Oct 29, 2006 15:44:55 GMT -5
I haven't had any real problems with s3 so far. The change in the opening credits (esp. the theme) threw me at first, but even that isn't such a big deal. RT had to make some changes, it'll take a little time to shake out, and VM seems to be holding viewers from GG. At least it isn't another 'Max Headroom' situation.
While I agree it would be (much, much) more urgent in real life to solve the rapes, and can only imagine how uncomfortable a subject it must be for some, I do find it a fascinating way of dealing with women's sexuality and the issues surrounding same. All the Madonna/whore BS, blaming the victim and such. And yes, the shaved head would make it that much worse, and yes, a "victim" could be faking it for political a/o personal reasons.
I'm very lucky (relieved, and grateful) that my only personal issue with this topic so far stems from the events of Seeing Red.
On a lighter note, I was really looking forward to the Veronica takes Logan home for dinner bit, and was initially a smidge disappointed. Am hoping for more Keith/Logan interaction as the season progresses.
As for Logan and the fake half-brother, I thought Logan's naivete in trusting this guy was a nice contrast to Veronica's lack of trust in last week's ep. Logan really needs someone in his life he can count on besides V.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 30, 2006 22:15:28 GMT -5
The twop recap sez that in addition to being a line from Apocalypse Now, the title is a lyric from a Clash song. Does anyone have any further explanation or comment on this?
I suck at popular music.
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Post by Rob on Oct 31, 2006 0:02:09 GMT -5
Anyway... I agree with your sentiment, and I hope it wasnt my somewhat negative opinion of hte episode that propelled you to write the above. I still love the show and will continue to watch it wach week. I loved the 3rd episode and felt like VM was back on stride with it. It's still msut see tv for me, and I don;t see that changing, even if the show stays exactly like it's been so far this season. Vlad Aw heck, no. Everyone should criticize all they want. I was just talking about me, since I've spent the last couple of weeks' episodes brooding over Wallace's lack of involvement. It was making me sort of hate Logan/Jason Dohring, which really isn't fair to the character or the actor. Sure, I think we, as fans, may nitpick too much in general, but that's the nature of the Internet. It's the world wide water cooler, after all, and making every single opinionated viewer happy is close to impossible. Being caught up in one character over others just gets in the way of enjoying the overall picture. That's all I was saying. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 31, 2006 16:13:15 GMT -5
S’cubies! Guess what’s on our S3 website? Yes, that’s right, my new VM review is here!!Go to www.soulfulspike.com and read :[/size] CHARLIE DON’T SURF: Getting to know you – by Spring Summers You can also access it directly by clicking on the image of Katharine Houghton and Sidney Poitier, below:And I'd love it if you give me your feedback, here on the VM ep 3.4 thread![/b] |
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Post by Pixi on Oct 31, 2006 16:27:18 GMT -5
Hi Spring. #wavey#
Very nice analysis - as always. I wonder - do you feel frustrated when there aren't a lot of deep mystery layers to delve through? Because as you said - there sure wasn't much to do with the mystery. We are consistently seeing noir lite.
But still I enjoyed the episode a great deal and, as always, you write a terrific breakdown. I liked all the instances of interviews you posted - you don't really notice these things until someone adds them all up.
Logan and Dick are really walking along parellel paths aren't they? Seriously messed up familial paths. Dick is now playing Logan season 1 (with hopefully no romance with Veronica thrown into the mix - yikes!) I love the fact that they have reintroduced a family member for Logan. And I hope they touch more on this as Dohring does angst so very well.
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Post by Pixi on Oct 31, 2006 16:31:24 GMT -5
Okay, i read through the entire thread... and I guess I am the only one that wasn't knocked out by this episode. Last week's I loved.. even commented to my watching buddy "there we go! That's classica Veronica Mars!" But this episode... we both looked at each other after it was over and went "meh." Maybe it's that we are both guys. I don't know. We were both completely bored by the Keith storyline this week and that is even with me being a fan of hte two actors clear back from Just Shoot Me days. I didn't like the Logan storyline. It was depressing on top of depressing and also managed at hte same time to be a little too.. over the top or something. On thinking about it right now, I think what it is, is that I am not fond of hte "rapist" storyline. So that part didn;t rock for me at all, the Logan storyline I found to be ... well, I said above... and then Keith's MotW turned out to be a complete snoozefest for me. In fact... I feel Keith is being way under used this season, so far. I know.. it's only episode 4, but.. I wiush they'd get something really going. Oh well, not all is lost*. Every season VM has a couple of episodes that leave me a little cold. This is more than made up for by the other 19-20 that completely rock. Just.. waiting for hte rocking to start! Vlad *Speaking of LOST... this week's LOST episode didn't really click for me either(a Sawyer ep, no less!)... and I taped and watched both of these shows back to back as usual, VM then LOST. So, hmmm let's hope BSG rocks on Friday. At least last night's Supernatural was an above normal episode. V. Interesting. I loathe the rape storyline so I'm just kind of ignoring it myself. But then I loved the Logan and Keith storylines. I will note that Couch Baron (over at TWOP) did love this so I don't know if it's just the male/female factor. I usually find myself in agreement with your opinions when I read them so it's interesting that you disliked this. (and I found the Sawyer ep lacking also) |
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Post by Pixi on Oct 31, 2006 16:37:54 GMT -5
I enjoyed the episode again this week, but... Okay maybe this is pretty obvious stuff (gotta go read the reviews and find out what significant clues I missed) but it seems clear to me that the rapist is going to be someone we'd probably rather NOT have it be. In the four episodes there have been too many examples of people being unjustly accused or suspected. Which has me wondering about these mini-arcs. I wanted to give the concept a chance but I'm worried. I haven't checked just how long the first "arc" is supposed to last. If it's only 6-8 episodes before the rapist is revealed, who do we have as a suspect? Piz? The dorm res counselor? Dick? Wallace? (Yikes) There just doesn't seem to be a time frame to explore the big mystery, set up a great villain, develop red herrings, explore main character developments, and focus each episode on a MOTW that parallels and mirrors the big mystery. Now, we're about halfway thru the arc, so maybe I'll be blown away by the resolution, but it sure doesn't seem like it's gonna happen. (Rob, I enjoyed your ramble.)Me too. The first mystery is solved in 9 eps. The suspect pool is seriously lacking. I've heard it postulated here and there that the rapist might be a woman. Would that make Nish the key suspect? She is around alot. But, I honestly am not very invested in the rapes and haven't really been looking for clues. Such a stupid storyline, I just really hate it. But oh well - as Rob says, I'm enjoying what is there. |
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Post by Pixi on Oct 31, 2006 16:47:37 GMT -5
I really, really enjoyed tonight's episode. I am completely unspoiled this year - and as Kramer would say "loving every minute" and I was sort of expecting a return to closed off Veronica after last week's openness. The old one step forward, two steps back dance. But lo and behold girlfriend Veronica was still there. And Kristen was still selling it. Be still my happy, happy shipper heart. So many terrific moments between Veronica and Logan: 1. The do not mention seeing me naked/milky thighs conversation. Sigh! 2. Girlfriend Veronica being supportive and doing her thing not in a nasty, I'll get you or suspicious Logan did something way to solve the money issue and the half brother issue. 3. Still touching, still caressing, still loving. Sigh. We talked about things we needed to talk about. Veronica mentioned her rape. Hello - yes! Granted not so much about it but at least acknowledging it's existence. Logan's child abuse. Hello long lost plotline - how are you? Creepy ass pear story. Gah. Logan was perky! He was surfing. And then he was angsty. It was Loganpalooza acting wise. I do have an issue with the mumbling this time - usually doesn't bother me but I had to rewind a couple of scenes to catch some lines but the pain in the ending. The adoring delight in Logan's eyes watching Keith and Veronica banter. The surfing, the accent when he and Logan part 2 came up to V on the beach - so, much, love. Great guest star: The chemistry between Keith and Laura (is she really named Harmony? I mean really? Gah. What a horrible name for her. Harmony belongs to vacuous students who become clueless vampires. Please make a note) Moving on. I really enjoyed smitten kitten Keith and Laura rocked her lines. For once I enjoyed Keith's scenes and didn't want to fast forward.Dick - ah Dick. I just can't help it. I love Dick. The visit to the apartment, the snarky lines, the rat trap (hee, hee, hee and Veronica's acknowledgement that the prank was pretty damn awesome). And seriously - how could I not love a show where Logan Huntzberger (Matt C.) gets punched in the face? The only thing better would have been if Christopher had been wandering by and Logan had punched him in the face too. My brain would have exploded with delight. So the guy in the ATM photo - was he the rapist? Can't be or mystery arc over right? So who was he? At least we were on the rapetrail this ep and all the scenes just nicely intertwined for me. I didn’t remember that they played a couple in Just Shoot Me at first, but definitely enjoyed seeing them back together, and I also kept thinking about the other Harmony when I heard her name. When I first started watching VM, EC was for a long time “that guy from Just Shoot Me” to me. Now I’d have a hard time seeing him as anything but Keith Mars. I feel like they could maybe use the guest stars a bit more in the marketing of the show. Don’t know if they actually do, they just don’t appear to be doing so on the CW site. How’s the show doing in ratings, by the way? I'm sorry I never got back to you on this Reetta. My RL has been kicking my butt lately and I've been hit and run posting more often. It's doing so-so. Better than last year but not knocking it out of the park. We haven't been giving the back 9 pick up yet so that's a good indication it is on the bubble. Oh and loved your post. Sorry I'm just now getting around to reading it. |
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At least last night's Supernatural was an above normal episode.
, I waxed poetic. I suppose I'll do the same if (or when) Wallace is given more to do; if nothing else, I'm consistent. 
