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Post by havoc on Feb 5, 2005 15:12:24 GMT -5
Yep. Having the machines sitting in a machine and flying it was always a bit . . . hmmmm. I guess the only time that it does make sense is if the ship is more of a transport thing. Like they're gonna be landing somewhere else and then need to move around in a more flexible manner. But for just the small, fast, zippy fighters? This new idea of a living thing fused into the flyer is much much smarter. Not to mention cooler. Lola Oh, yeah. That's the other plus. I much prefer the look of the new raider over the old. The new one kinda feels like a transam replacing a pinto. Very nice.
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Post by havoc on Feb 5, 2005 15:16:19 GMT -5
That does seem a little redundant. The way Starbuck just ripped the brain out of the cybor-raider like it was a piece of garbage, was so.....Starbuck. *Made* my sons rewatch it with me this morning. I think I got them hooked, too. ;D I had a friend over friday evening and converted him. Didn't have to say much. He was an old BSG fan and very skeptical; but, he wanted to see for himself, so we hooked him up with recorded copies of the aired episodes and watched the first part of the miniseries while doint that. He was a convert after the first two hours and seemed to quickly overcome or push past all his objections about it. We ended up talking quite a bit about it afterward and he went home and watched them all after that. And I do mean All LOL.
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Post by havoc on Feb 5, 2005 15:18:32 GMT -5
THe moon sequence was so realistic! When Starbuck started getting pulled - didn't you think it was a cylon at first? Very well done! I could almost smell that cylon raider. EJO - I can't say enough how much having him as part of the cast was a stroke of genious. And MM and the Colonel, too. Yay for the older actors! Not just pretty faces - but character and guts. They pull you right into every scene. The scene with Adama and Apollo - I don't know if I've ever seen such an emotional moment between 2 characters done as well (excluding the Jossverse ). JB is a great actor, too - and also, cute. hehe. I could smell the ship too. And when Starbuck asked Apollo if he wanted to give her a bath, My hand was up.. kinda that Arnold Horshack response of "Oh, oh, oh, oh, pick me! Pick me!"
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Post by havoc on Feb 5, 2005 15:20:37 GMT -5
I'm not reading, cause I haven't seen the episode yet. Actually, just posting to be counted as a BSG fan, even though I haven't spent much time posting on this thread yet! That's cool, girl Standing up to be counted is as worthwhile as joining in. The more the merrier. And you'll like it when you do get the chance to see it. And as always, the next one is to be looked forward to.. lol
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Post by Karen on Feb 5, 2005 15:31:59 GMT -5
hehe. I could smell the ship too. And when Starbuck asked Apollo if he wanted to give her a bath, My hand was up.. kinda that Arnold Horshack response of "Oh, oh, oh, oh, pick me! Pick me!" LOL! My mom is a big Star Gate fan, and now she's been watching BSG. She just told me that they're running a marathon on Tuesday. I'm not sure what time, tho.
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Post by Matthew on Feb 5, 2005 15:36:50 GMT -5
Yep, yep, yep to everything here! **bounce, bounce** BSG is turning out to be soooooo great! Great action - great kabooms - great acting - great emotional backstory and characters - great story arc, with the last remnants of humanity fleeing in the ragtag fleet. I mean, they took one of my fond memories of a much-loved, cheesy, soap-operaesque, sit-comesque show and turned it into . . . wow! The scene with Adama and Apollo, "If it were you, we'd never leave"! So good! Both actors just blew me away. I mean, I was expecting EJO to be stunning, but . . . ! The entire sequence on the moom with Starbuck was just nail-bitingly excitingly good. I loved how they did it. Having to carve out the living part, and figure out how to get oxygen and patch the leak and then figure out how to fly. Lola I liked the Cyborg cylon, there. I thought it was actually generally plausible, that she would be able to fly it. It would have muscle-servos controlling the valves and the flaps, etc. And it would be on an oxygen economy because it was human based: being a composite, it would be alive in parts, even if it was deteriorating, from redundant subsystems keeping the tissues oxygenated (Humans are too fragile and too easy to break). But, while I don't have a problem with her flying it, or even taking it extratmospheric, nor with the jinking and maneuvers she did with Apollo, I DO have a problem with how easily she found the fleet: no access to insturments, no large window to get a bearing on the proper stars (even if she remembered them from just before she crashed) and the fleet was out of sight of the planet. There wouldnae have been any screens for her to check. I'm just gonna toss it up to blind-ass good luck and the lowering of statistical threshholds that comes with Sci-fi adventure shows. 'Cause otherwise? My eyes would be rolling too much. ;D FUN show, though. ETA: and the scene that did it for me? When Starbuck broke down over Adama's shoulder when he embraced her in the hosptital bed, accepted her as his daughter despite what she'd done to Zak. REAL-looking. Beautiful. Amazing. That feeling of "I don't deserve his forgiveness, but thank god I somehow have been given it" conveyed perfectly.
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Post by havoc on Feb 5, 2005 15:47:30 GMT -5
LOL! My mom is a big Star Gate fan, and now she's been watching BSG. She just told me that they're running a marathon on Tuesday. I'm not sure what time, tho. Cool. I'll have to pass that on to some friends here. I've been converting people (lol) to the new series here lately. Working on some people in the local CB crowd now and already got a couple saying they'll watch next week. So, we'll see. It is an addictive show.
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Post by havoc on Feb 5, 2005 15:52:45 GMT -5
I liked the Cyborg cylon, there. I thought it was actually generally plausible, that she would be able to fly it. It would have muscle-servos controlling the valves and the flaps, etc. And it would be on an oxygen economy because it was human based: being a composite, it would be alive in parts, even if it was deteriorating, from redundant subsystems keeping the tissues oxygenated (Humans are too fragile and too easy to break). But, while I don't have a problem with her flying it, or even taking it extratmospheric, nor with the jinking and maneuvers she did with Apollo, I DO have a problem with how easily she found the fleet: no access to insturments, no large window to get a bearing on the proper stars (even if she remembered them from just before she crashed) and the fleet was out of sight of the planet. There wouldnae have been any screens for her to check. I'm just gonna toss it up to blind-ass good luck and the lowering of statistical threshholds that comes with Sci-fi adventure shows. 'Cause otherwise? My eyes would be rolling too much. ;D FUN show, though. ETA: and the scene that did it for me? When Starbuck broke down over Adama's shoulder when he embraced her in the hosptital bed, accepted her as his daughter despite what she'd done to Zak. REAL-looking. Beautiful. Amazing. That feeling of "I don't deserve his forgiveness, but thank god I somehow have been given it" conveyed perfectly. That was my majore complaint about this episode. The flight and getting back to the fleet seemed to stretch things a bit. Though I had less problem with getting back to the fleet than I had with flying the raider in general. The planet was covered in search patrols and tanker ships (slow movers). All she'd need to have is a glimpse of one of them leaving the atmosphere and she'd have bearing back to the fleet - not a huge leap. But, I'm with ya. They needed about another 5 minutes of story to flesh that out better and didn't have it to use without extending the episode into another week. At some point you cut the losses to tell the story. I just hope they don't take many shortcuts in the future. I really don't want to see this turn into the "A-Team"...
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Post by Karen on Feb 5, 2005 16:01:04 GMT -5
I liked the Cyborg cylon, there. I thought it was actually generally plausible, that she would be able to fly it. It would have muscle-servos controlling the valves and the flaps, etc. And it would be on an oxygen economy because it was human based: being a composite, it would be alive in parts, even if it was deteriorating, from redundant subsystems keeping the tissues oxygenated (Humans are too fragile and too easy to break). But, while I don't have a problem with her flying it, or even taking it extratmospheric, nor with the jinking and maneuvers she did with Apollo, I DO have a problem with how easily she found the fleet: no access to insturments, no large window to get a bearing on the proper stars (even if she remembered them from just before she crashed) and the fleet was out of sight of the planet. There wouldnae have been any screens for her to check. I'm just gonna toss it up to blind-ass good luck and the lowering of statistical threshholds that comes with Sci-fi adventure shows. 'Cause otherwise? My eyes would be rolling too much. ;D FUN show, though. ETA: and the scene that did it for me? When Starbuck broke down over Adama's shoulder when he embraced her in the hosptital bed, accepted her as his daughter despite what she'd done to Zak. REAL-looking. Beautiful. Amazing. That feeling of "I don't deserve his forgiveness, but thank god I somehow have been given it" conveyed perfectly. I loved that last scene, too. Very beautifully done by both actors. Altho, I do wonder what Adama's kryptic "I haven't let it go." (or similar words) to Apollo when they were discussing Starbuck's actions concerning Zak meant. OR did he finally resolve his feelings about that there at the end? About Starbuck finding the fleet so easily. Do you think that the cylon cyborg raider has been programmed to home in on the fleet? fanwank
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Post by Matthew on Feb 5, 2005 17:02:23 GMT -5
I loved that last scene, too. Very beautifully done by both actors. Altho, I do wonder what Adama's kryptic "I haven't let it go." (or similar words) to Apollo when they were discussing Starbuck's actions concerning Zak meant. OR did he finally resolve his feelings about that there at the end? About Starbuck finding the fleet so easily. Do you think that the cylon cyborg raider has been programmed to home in on the fleet? fanwank Nah... Hey!! I've got it!! The ships *FLASH* when they make a hyperspace jump, don't they? Maybe she was seeing visual signatures of the ships jumping, and homed in on that!
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Feb 5, 2005 23:51:32 GMT -5
What an incredible episode! My heart is still in my throat - wow...this show has it all - the acting, the plotting, the special effects are outstanding, and I'm already so locked into the characters.
What happened? Was there some memo that went out that said 'it's ok to have excellent tv again.?
I am going to try really hard to watch this when everyone else does next week so I can participate in the talking.
Looking forward to your review of this one havoc!
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Feb 5, 2005 23:52:49 GMT -5
Awesome episode! The cylon/toaster scene was very neat. Those metal cylons give me the shivers. Loved the 'alive' cylon ship and Starbuck's ability to be able to use it. Great moments between both Starbuck and Adama and Apollo and Adama. *snif* I am enjoying BSG so much. I'm very excited to finally be watching a show again that excites me as much as the Jossverse. *bounces happily away* Karen, I'm with you all the way! The big metal cylons are freaking scary, and I'm kinda floaty right now too!!
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Feb 5, 2005 23:56:28 GMT -5
That's cool, girl Standing up to be counted is as worthwhile as joining in. The more the merrier. And you'll like it when you do get the chance to see it. And as always, the next one is to be looked forward to.. lol I thought last week's was terrific - and it was, but this week...oh man...what more could a person ask for in one hour! Can't wait for the next one.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 9, 2005 17:59:07 GMT -5
Nice review, Havoc!
Liked how you noted that we see something . . . off, something uneasy about Adama’s concern for Starbuck right from the start.
Good summary of Starbuck’s situation on the moon. But in particular, I appreciated how you remind us of the different perspective we have from those on the show/ship.
This is so important to keep in mind when watching a show or movie – the different way the story is being shown to us than how the characters are experiencing it – the way we have more (and sometimes less) info that the folks on the screen. It is so easy to get wrapped up in a story and forget this, but it is vital when trying to really understand why characters are doing the things they are doing. In this instance, remembering it highlights the extreme behavior of Adama and Apollo and puts Tigh’s actions and Roslin’s speech in perspective.
Glad you pointed out how it priceless, how fun it is for us to watch Baltar jump and twist through #6’s hoops in front of others. He must have such a reputation as an idiot genius by now. And, as you point out, it can only get worse. I love watching scenes with him with an eye to how his behavior looks to the other actual people in the room.
I would agree with you that the number 13 can’t just be totally coincidental. If we continue to have an arc that is at least similar to the original show, the number of colonies is a key idea.
Like many who were watching, the scenes where Starbuck tears out the “living” part of the Cylon ship and learns to use it herself were among my favorites – one of the 3 best things about the episode. As you said:
Next on the list of 3 best things was President Roslin confronting Adama and Apollo. Her harsh, yet truthful speech was, I think, just the right words at just the right time. And I had a different take on the President’s statement about watching professionals. I thought she was using it as a way to show them some measure of respect. She’s “in their house” and yet she’s just had to chew Adama out. What better way to say that she understands that they are experts in their own field?
And the final item on my list of the 3 best things: that scene between Adama and Apollo and “why we did this”. The phrase you used regarding Starbuck’s fight to survive (“this is all about the intersection of hope and desire”) could just as easily be describing not only the search for her, but also Apollo’s hopes and desires about his relationship with his father. If it were me on that planet, would you do the same? He’s really not sure. Does his father love him? Love him enough? Love him as much as he loved his brother? And then the instantaneous, fierce reply. If it were you, we’d never leave.
Just a stunning bit of acting by both of them.
Lola
One last quick note. Very glad you noted the irony of Adama having an episode of letting personal issues override his professional duties right after smacking Starbuck down for the same thing. Was this a big factor in his reconciliation with her at the end? I think it was. Plus, it was just a great scene. As you said:
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Post by havoc on Feb 11, 2005 0:30:16 GMT -5
Nice review, Havoc! Liked how you noted that we see something . . . off, something uneasy about Adama’s concern for Starbuck right from the start. Good summary of Starbuck’s situation on the moon. But in particular, I appreciated how you remind us of the different perspective we have from those on the show/ship. This is so important to keep in mind when watching a show or movie – the different way the story is being shown to us than how the characters are experiencing it – the way we have more (and sometimes less) info that the folks on the screen. It is so easy to get wrapped up in a story and forget this, but it is vital when trying to really understand why characters are doing the things they are doing. In this instance, remembering it highlights the extreme behavior of Adama and Apollo and puts Tigh’s actions and Roslin’s speech in perspective. Glad you pointed out how it priceless, how fun it is for us to watch Baltar jump and twist through #6’s hoops in front of others. He must have such a reputation as an idiot genius by now. And, as you point out, it can only get worse. I love watching scenes with him with an eye to how his behavior looks to the other actual people in the room. I would agree with you that the number 13 can’t just be totally coincidental. If we continue to have an arc that is at least similar to the original show, the number of colonies is a key idea. Like many who were watching, the scenes where Starbuck tears out the “living” part of the Cylon ship and learns to use it herself were among my favorites – one of the 3 best things about the episode. As you said: Next on the list of 3 best things was President Roslin confronting Adama and Apollo. Her harsh, yet truthful speech was, I think, just the right words at just the right time. And I had a different take on the President’s statement about watching professionals. I thought she was using it as a way to show them some measure of respect. She’s “in their house” and yet she’s just had to chew Adama out. What better way to say that she understands that they are experts in their own field? And the final item on my list of the 3 best things: that scene between Adama and Apollo and “why we did this”. The phrase you used regarding Starbuck’s fight to survive (“this is all about the intersection of hope and desire”) could just as easily be describing not only the search for her, but also Apollo’s hopes and desires about his relationship with his father. If it were me on that planet, would you do the same? He’s really not sure. Does his father love him? Love him enough? Love him as much as he loved his brother? And then the instantaneous, fierce reply. If it were you, we’d never leave. Just a stunning bit of acting by both of them. Lola One last quick note. Very glad you noted the irony of Adama having an episode of letting personal issues override his professional duties right after smacking Starbuck down for the same thing. Was this a big factor in his reconciliation with her at the end? I think it was. Plus, it was just a great scene. As you said: Thank you thank you. Try to call them as I see them; but, appreciate your insight on Roslin. I saw it as sniping - understanding that we all do it now and then. Still love the character. Remember Bastille day. She seemed taken aback and brought back to reality when Apollo had the gaul to impose elections on her. When he used the fact of the law to bring it in context, she deflated a bit; but, the point is she is human. Everyone gets bent out of joint now and then. I see your side of it too. It still felt like sniping lol. I saw that as a bit of tension keeping the story and the conversation with the audience going. And it's realistic. The most loving and dedicated marriages have their occasional spats. Then again, there are those like Vlad's ex.. I'll leave that one be LOL. And no, I couldn't leave the transparency of Adama's situation to stand without comment. The situations are apples and oranges; but, the irony is too interesting not to highlight it. Kinda goes without saying that what's bad in one situation may be good in another. Throwing caution to the wind is great in football, admirable in war, and stupid when packing a parachute or investing your money. And believe me, it get's more interesting with time.
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