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Post by Karen on Sept 26, 2005 9:29:56 GMT -5
Were they turning into the very creatures that they were bent on destroying? I thought it very strange how they didn't seem all that happy to find more humans alive. I'll have to rewatch for signs that they were - I'm sure there were a few that were happy they weren't so alone. Why should they be happy? They've been fighting the war this whole time, the others have spent the whole time running away. Without the President's presence I reckon she'd have the Galactica up for desertion in the face of the enemy. Thinking they were the last humans in the galaxy, the Galactica and flock set out to find a safe haven and start making more humans. Thinking they were the last humans in the galaxy, the Pegasus set out to take as many of the other guys with them as they could when they finally died. she said that attacking the Cylons was about 'the best defence' being a good offence, but if there is nothing to defend? The other week they had that person saying they were all taught, when going into battle, to think of themselves as dead. Galactica have the hope of Earth to keep them thinking alive. Pegasus? They *should* be happy, or at least relieved to find that they aren't so alone. In a normal world, or what I consider normal, they would be. You're right - they gave up hope from the outset - so happy is not a normal state of being when you're hopeless. (Angel?) I wonder what really happened to Kane to plunge her into the state she is in - seeing 700 of her men die? Or something else? Will be interesting to find out more. She's like Captain Ahab - all vengeance towards the Cylons.
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Post by Karen on Sept 26, 2005 9:34:17 GMT -5
The President outranks them all, and no way would she ever agree to that bitca Admiral taking control of the whole fleet. Does the President outrank them in the BSG 'verse? They just had a big fight over the President interfering with the military if she is the boss, then would that have happened?Probably not, but they all are still sorting out who is the leader - and to the civilians, they look to Roselyn now. Kind of a 'the people have spoken' thing. Adama realized that he had to make peace with her because he needs her (and visa versa). Just like he needed Boomer to defeat the Cylon's virus.
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Post by Rachael on Sept 26, 2005 9:51:14 GMT -5
Okay, thoughts on the thing, before I read others':
It bothered me. Both in the way it was clearly supposed to (Dave was trying to keep me from burrowing backwards into the couch during the rape scene - I so hate that as a plot device, even when I acknowledge both the realistic idea of it, and the power of it in the story.), and in ways it wasn't.
Biggest issue: pretty much no one on the Pegasus was a sympathetic character. It was an entire ship of "this is what happens to humans in war sometimes, isn't it awful" caracatures. It would have been more believable if it wasn't every. single. crew member. we met for the entire episode.
With the sole exception, maybe, of the XO.
And they reserved pretty much all the actual action and interesting events of the season for like two episodes. The pacing has fallen off big time, and I'm not sure if I can maintain interest if it continues this way.
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Post by Rachael on Sept 26, 2005 11:12:11 GMT -5
Does the President outrank them in the BSG 'verse? They just had a big fight over the President interfering with the military if she is the boss, then would that have happened?Probably not, but they all are still sorting out who is the leader - and to the civilians, they look to Roselyn now. Kind of a 'the people have spoken' thing. Adama realized that he had to make peace with her because he needs her (and visa versa). Just like he needed Boomer to defeat the Cylon's virus. The reason, IMO, that asking the President for her opinion never came up is that Adama knew that the Admiral had no respect for the woman who is president, and given her actions, odds are she has no respect for the office of President, either. And she's got a big, state-of-the-art warship at her command, while Adama has a bit of a mothballer. They're kind of cornered, with civilians to protect and the lesser of the two Battlestars - ultimately, the semi-surprise attack was his only option. Also...when they find Earth, and find us, hypothetically...they're gonna bring the Cylons down on our heads. Also? Anyone feel like we had two separate experiments going on - the Galactica, with civilization along, and the Pegasus, with none. Both having a conveniently captured humanlike Cylon on board? And now the Cylons have gotten all the information they can out of the Pegasus experiment in exile, so they led the Pegasus back to the Galactica. Because, people, the odds of finding the Galactica were fairly tiny, one would think. I suspect they were led there deliberately. It all looks like experimentation to me.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Sept 26, 2005 13:16:26 GMT -5
Probably not, but they all are still sorting out who is the leader - and to the civilians, they look to Roselyn now. Kind of a 'the people have spoken' thing. Adama realized that he had to make peace with her because he needs her (and visa versa). Just like he needed Boomer to defeat the Cylon's virus. The reason, IMO, that asking the President for her opinion never came up is that Adama knew that the Admiral had no respect for the woman who is president, and given her actions, odds are she has no respect for the office of President, either. And she's got a big, state-of-the-art warship at her command, while Adama has a bit of a mothballer. They're kind of cornered, with civilians to protect and the lesser of the two Battlestars - ultimately, the semi-surprise attack was his only option. Also...when they find Earth, and find us, hypothetically...they're gonna bring the Cylons down on our heads. Also? Anyone feel like we had two separate experiments going on - the Galactica, with civilization along, and the Pegasus, with none. Both having a conveniently captured humanlike Cylon on board? And now the Cylons have gotten all the information they can out of the Pegasus experiment in exile, so they led the Pegasus back to the Galactica. Because, people, the odds of finding the Galactica were fairly tiny, one would think. I suspect they were led there deliberately. It all looks like experimentation to me. *nods* about the experiment don't think I've said yet - how did the Pegasus know she was a Cylon? Only the Galactica has a functioning Cylon detector, and Baltar is uniquely qualified and smart so the odds of independent invention have to be slim. We the viewers know she is a Cylon, we have no doubt, because we've seen inside his head, but how did the Pegasus know?
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Post by Karen on Sept 26, 2005 13:54:51 GMT -5
The reason, IMO, that asking the President for her opinion never came up is that Adama knew that the Admiral had no respect for the woman who is president, and given her actions, odds are she has no respect for the office of President, either. And she's got a big, state-of-the-art warship at her command, while Adama has a bit of a mothballer. They're kind of cornered, with civilians to protect and the lesser of the two Battlestars - ultimately, the semi-surprise attack was his only option. Also...when they find Earth, and find us, hypothetically...they're gonna bring the Cylons down on our heads. Also? Anyone feel like we had two separate experiments going on - the Galactica, with civilization along, and the Pegasus, with none. Both having a conveniently captured humanlike Cylon on board? And now the Cylons have gotten all the information they can out of the Pegasus experiment in exile, so they led the Pegasus back to the Galactica. Because, people, the odds of finding the Galactica were fairly tiny, one would think. I suspect they were led there deliberately. It all looks like experimentation to me. *nods* about the experiment don't think I've said yet - how did the Pegasus know she was a Cylon? Only the Galactica has a functioning Cylon detector, and Baltar is uniquely qualified and smart so the odds of independent invention have to be slim. We the viewers know she is a Cylon, we have no doubt, because we've seen inside his head, but how did the Pegasus know? Uh, huh. I agree with you both. And what are the chances that the Cylon that they are interrogating is Six? Baltar's declaration of love after seeing Pegasus!Six broken and weak, was exactly what the Cylons were banking on.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 26, 2005 17:03:15 GMT -5
Were they turning into the very creatures that they were bent on destroying? I thought it very strange how they didn't seem all that happy to find more humans alive. I'll have to rewatch for signs that they were - I'm sure there were a few that were happy they weren't so alone. Why should they be happy? They've been fighting the war this whole time, the others have spent the whole time running away. Without the President's presence I reckon she'd have the Galactica up for desertion in the face of the enemy. Thinking they were the last humans in the galaxy, the Galactica and flock set out to find a safe haven and start making more humans. Thinking they were the last humans in the galaxy, the Pegasus set out to take as many of the other guys with them as they could when they finally died. she said that attacking the Cylons was about 'the best defence' being a good offence, but if there is nothing to defend? The other week they had that person saying they were all taught, when going into battle, to think of themselves as dead. Galactica have the hope of Earth to keep them thinking alive. Pegasus? I guess I was thinking, happy to discover they aren't the last humans left. Happy to see that perhaps there will be more to their future than just fighting a hopeless battle until they are all gone. Although, as you say, that is a very dramatic shift from where they have been lately. So it probably takes a while to have that really sink in. To realize what it means that a whole bunch more humans exist. And, well, Galactica and the civilian fleet they are protecting have been fighting too, lots of battles as they first tried to evade enough Cylons to just not all be wiped out. And fight back lots of attacks since then as they've tried to get supplies and keep alive and form some kind of plan for a future.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 26, 2005 17:20:10 GMT -5
Oh what a wonderful way of putting it!! Turning into the creatures they are hunting! Man, that sort of makes me think of the Reavers . . . **shivers** They didn't look happy, did they? They were all . . . glum and stern and so on when they first landed. And all they talked about was the stuff that Galactica had, like booze or female cylons to "have fun with". Plus, they were only sharing their stuff with the other military guys and not with the rest of the fleet. Not a good sign. Oooooh! And Admiral Kane was all "welcome back to the fleet", like they were the ones that Galactica and the others were the outsiders they were letting in. Not the way it really is, that Galactica and the civilian ships are the Fleet now and they should be saying "welcome back" to the Pegasus folks! That's very telling. why 'really'? She outranks them. She therefore has been in charge of the fleet since things all went wrong. The Galactica just didn't know it. but, really, there is a President and all the other machinery of government, civilization. Pegasus can welcome Galactica back to the Fleet, G can welcome P back to civilization. I guess I meant sort of what you said in your last sentence, but also sort of not. Pegasus is the commanding ship over Galactica and Cain (I've been spelling it wrong before, according to SciFi's website) is the commanding officer of the military fleet. But the military fleet is really just those two ships. The much more numerous civilian and merchant ships that fly with Galactica are also a "fleet" now. A fleet that has been, up until now, part of the whole plan to save humanity from the clyons as well as containing the government and the governed. So, I guess I was thinking that while her words were accurate from a purely military stance, there is a much more complicated picture that the Pegasus is entering here. My thoughts were less about the strictly literal meaning of her words and more that they might reflect a possible hint of problems to come. In other words, the Pegasus has been operating from a strictly military viewpoint and now they'll need to adjust to a different role. Or will they try to act the same way? Now that they are attached to a large unarmed (mostly) civilian fleet, are they still gonna try to act like the front line of an attacking force? Also, there is the extra complication if, as with the U.S. and some other governments, the President or other governmental head is actually the ultimate commanding officer. Does Cain actually have the final say now? Or perhaps she does in military matters, but can she order the rest of the fleet? The military commander really commands only, well, the military. Not the civilians. Adama and Tigh have already had problems with those kind of distinctions.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 26, 2005 17:23:46 GMT -5
The President outranks them all, and no way would she ever agree to that bitca Admiral taking control of the whole fleet. Does the President outrank them in the BSG 'verse? They just had a big fight over the President interfering with the military if she is the boss, then would that have happened? I think that there is a question about that. But I'm not sure if it would really be as much of a question if this were not an emergency situation. I've gotten the vague impression that much of Roslin's deferral to Adama has to do with them being in the middle of an ongoing escape and battle situation. Otherwise, why would Tigh have had to declare "marial law" in try to make the civilian ships do what he wanted? Why would they have had to imprison the President before doing some of what they did?
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Post by Lola m on Sept 26, 2005 17:25:03 GMT -5
That's what I get for coming to the party late. Thanks, Becca! Better late than never! And I'm still confused about the whole timeline. Well, and I'm not sure how much they are following the old series. (Not to mention being very vague in my own memories of the final season of it.)
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Post by Lola m on Sept 26, 2005 17:28:13 GMT -5
Okay, thoughts on the thing, before I read others': It bothered me. Both in the way it was clearly supposed to (Dave was trying to keep me from burrowing backwards into the couch during the rape scene - I so hate that as a plot device, even when I acknowledge both the realistic idea of it, and the power of it in the story.), and in ways it wasn't. Biggest issue: pretty much no one on the Pegasus was a sympathetic character. It was an entire ship of "this is what happens to humans in war sometimes, isn't it awful" caracatures. It would have been more believable if it wasn't every. single. crew member. we met for the entire episode. With the sole exception, maybe, of the XO. And they reserved pretty much all the actual action and interesting events of the season for like two episodes. The pacing has fallen off big time, and I'm not sure if I can maintain interest if it continues this way. I think that not having any (obviously) sympathetic characters is part of making us feel like the Galactica people feel. We don't know these new folks - we're only seeing the first immediate impression of them as a group. I figure we'll start learning more about individuals from this ship in the second half of the second season.
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Post by Lola m on Sept 26, 2005 17:30:04 GMT -5
Probably not, but they all are still sorting out who is the leader - and to the civilians, they look to Roselyn now. Kind of a 'the people have spoken' thing. Adama realized that he had to make peace with her because he needs her (and visa versa). Just like he needed Boomer to defeat the Cylon's virus. The reason, IMO, that asking the President for her opinion never came up is that Adama knew that the Admiral had no respect for the woman who is president, and given her actions, odds are she has no respect for the office of President, either. And she's got a big, state-of-the-art warship at her command, while Adama has a bit of a mothballer. They're kind of cornered, with civilians to protect and the lesser of the two Battlestars - ultimately, the semi-surprise attack was his only option. Also...when they find Earth, and find us, hypothetically...they're gonna bring the Cylons down on our heads. Also? Anyone feel like we had two separate experiments going on - the Galactica, with civilization along, and the Pegasus, with none. Both having a conveniently captured humanlike Cylon on board? And now the Cylons have gotten all the information they can out of the Pegasus experiment in exile, so they led the Pegasus back to the Galactica. Because, people, the odds of finding the Galactica were fairly tiny, one would think. I suspect they were led there deliberately. It all looks like experimentation to me. Experimentation would kinda fit with a cylon long-range plan, wouldn't it? Plus, we already know they are interested in studying various aspects of human emotions . . .
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Post by Lola m on Sept 26, 2005 17:31:30 GMT -5
The reason, IMO, that asking the President for her opinion never came up is that Adama knew that the Admiral had no respect for the woman who is president, and given her actions, odds are she has no respect for the office of President, either. And she's got a big, state-of-the-art warship at her command, while Adama has a bit of a mothballer. They're kind of cornered, with civilians to protect and the lesser of the two Battlestars - ultimately, the semi-surprise attack was his only option. Also...when they find Earth, and find us, hypothetically...they're gonna bring the Cylons down on our heads. Also? Anyone feel like we had two separate experiments going on - the Galactica, with civilization along, and the Pegasus, with none. Both having a conveniently captured humanlike Cylon on board? And now the Cylons have gotten all the information they can out of the Pegasus experiment in exile, so they led the Pegasus back to the Galactica. Because, people, the odds of finding the Galactica were fairly tiny, one would think. I suspect they were led there deliberately. It all looks like experimentation to me. *nods* about the experiment don't think I've said yet - how did the Pegasus know she was a Cylon? Only the Galactica has a functioning Cylon detector, and Baltar is uniquely qualified and smart so the odds of independent invention have to be slim. We the viewers know she is a Cylon, we have no doubt, because we've seen inside his head, but how did the Pegasus know? Most excellent question!!! It's not like the human cylons have some simple physical marker, like a metal framwork inside or something. How did the Pegasus folks know?
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