|
|
Post by Rachael on Jan 9, 2006 13:35:17 GMT -5
She is crazed and powerful. But killing her would be sinking to her level. I wonder if there is another way. I can't believe her entire crew like serving under her. Foment a mutiny, perhaps? Unfortunately, unless you thought you could lock her up and have her not get out for as long as it takes to end the way (i.e. possibly forever), then I think the "shoot her in the head" plan is the only one that's viable. She's got too much ability and ruthless cunning to be allowed to walk free, and there's always going to be someone in her crew (probably a hundred someones) who liked the way she did things and remain loyal to her. So someone would always be looking to get her out, and you can't lock up everyone who backed her. Then you've got another situation like the prison ship from Season 1. In the situation, I think that removing the head of the monster is the only way to go. But I'm open to suggestions that take me out of the camp of the (I think) crazy President, too.  |
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Jan 9, 2006 13:36:43 GMT -5
Whoa. She's going to infiltrate Galactica, with marines! And he's doing the same thing with Starbuck. Wow. They are thinking the same thing! That's fabulous! Both are planning the assassination of each other! Yeah. I said, "What, did they have a class in this, or something? It's the same plan!" He's not an assassin, no. But he's trained to use them. |
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Jan 9, 2006 13:40:02 GMT -5
Think of how scary good they'd be if they channelled their intelligence into working together. ;D They might actually kick the Cylon's butts. *sigh* I don't WANT the Cylons' butts kicked. I'm a closet Cylon sympathizer. Not to say their extermination of most of the human race is at all a not-evil thing. But...I get the overwhelming sense that there's massive misunderstanding on both sides, and the machine logic is what leads to "kill them all". That's what you do with something that's a fundamental danger to you, as humans are to Cylons, after all. Also...well, there's all the what looks like experimentation going on, and the melding of the two types...I want to KNOW the Cylons, before they all go boom. I think maybe the melding of the cultures/life forms is the way to go. But then, I've read too much Octavia Butler. |
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Jan 9, 2006 13:47:00 GMT -5
;D They might actually kick the Cylon's butts. *sigh* I don't WANT the Cylons' butts kicked. I'm a closet Cylon sympathizer. Not to say their extermination of most of the human race is at all a not-evil thing. But...I get the overwhelming sense that there's massive misunderstanding on both sides, and the machine logic is what leads to "kill them all". That's what you do with something that's a fundamental danger to you, as humans are to Cylons, after all. Also...well, there's all the what looks like experimentation going on, and the melding of the two types...I want to KNOW the Cylons, before they all go boom. I think maybe the melding of the cultures/life forms is the way to go. But then, I've read too much Octavia Butler. The cylons (especially the humainform ones) are as human as the human beings that initially created them.. and I think you're right on the money with the "kill them all" being machine-logic. It's clear that the humaniforms, at least, have the moral complexity (and foibles) that ordinary humans do. |
|
|
|
Post by Sara on Jan 9, 2006 13:47:20 GMT -5
She is crazed and powerful. But killing her would be sinking to her level. I wonder if there is another way. I can't believe her entire crew like serving under her. Foment a mutiny, perhaps?[/color] Which would then be... the Cain mutiny. Catchy name. |
|
|
|
Post by Sara on Jan 9, 2006 13:58:55 GMT -5
Unfortunately, unless you thought you could lock her up and have her not get out for as long as it takes to end the way (i.e. possibly forever), then I think the "shoot her in the head" plan is the only one that's viable. She's got too much ability and ruthless cunning to be allowed to walk free, and there's always going to be someone in her crew (probably a hundred someones) who liked the way she did things and remain loyal to her. So someone would always be looking to get her out, and you can't lock up everyone who backed her. Then you've got another situation like the prison ship from Season 1. In the situation, I think that removing the head of the monster is the only way to go. But I'm open to suggestions that take me out of the camp of the (I think) crazy President, too. Well, I suppose one option would be for Roslin to demote her--at least to where she's Adama's equal. If she were to bust Cain down to, say, ensign, all of Cain's people would assume it's because Roslin and Adama are so tight. Knocking her down to commander says "I'm punishing you, but I still believe in you and your ability to lead." Which in Roslin's case would be an outright lie, but the kind that keeps the troops from getting restless. Personally, even though I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision to take Cain out, I think finding a way other than assassination would be the best longterm plan if the ultimate goal is for both ships' crews to work together as a unified force. 'Cause if Cain dies under questionable circumstances, then there will always be crewmembers of hers who will be resistant to serving under Adama and Roslin. She needs to be exposed as completely nucking futs in a way that even the lowliest mechanic can't deny, court martialed, and then punished according to military protocols--which, in this case, would most likely be execution. They'd get the same end result (a dead Cain), but without any (or at least with far fewer) lingering suspicions and disgruntled soldiers. |
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Jan 9, 2006 14:23:44 GMT -5
*sigh* I don't WANT the Cylons' butts kicked. I'm a closet Cylon sympathizer. Not to say their extermination of most of the human race is at all a not-evil thing. But...I get the overwhelming sense that there's massive misunderstanding on both sides, and the machine logic is what leads to "kill them all". That's what you do with something that's a fundamental danger to you, as humans are to Cylons, after all. Also...well, there's all the what looks like experimentation going on, and the melding of the two types...I want to KNOW the Cylons, before they all go boom. I think maybe the melding of the cultures/life forms is the way to go. But then, I've read too much Octavia Butler. The cylons (especially the humainform ones) are as human as the human beings that initially created them.. and I think you're right on the money with the "kill them all" being machine-logic. It's clear that the humaniforms, at least, have the moral complexity (and foibles) that ordinary humans do. Which would seem to indicate that, in a very machine-logicky way, the Cylons are already trying to figure out how to live with humans. Why the massacre, though, I can't figure out, if they already had the humaniform Cylon plans going. Perhaps it was about reducing numbers of humans in the world, to make the final plan, whatever it is, more manageable? The humaniform Cylons are going to provide the Cylons with a perspective on humanity (not great the past few weeks, I'd have to say), and if they pay attention, the humans will also get perspective on the Cylons. Also...well, I still think the Cylon "god" is a literal being. They know where he is and what he is. That's my guess. |
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Jan 9, 2006 14:27:01 GMT -5
Unfortunately, unless you thought you could lock her up and have her not get out for as long as it takes to end the way (i.e. possibly forever), then I think the "shoot her in the head" plan is the only one that's viable. She's got too much ability and ruthless cunning to be allowed to walk free, and there's always going to be someone in her crew (probably a hundred someones) who liked the way she did things and remain loyal to her. So someone would always be looking to get her out, and you can't lock up everyone who backed her. Then you've got another situation like the prison ship from Season 1. In the situation, I think that removing the head of the monster is the only way to go. But I'm open to suggestions that take me out of the camp of the (I think) crazy President, too. Well, I suppose one option would be for Roslin to demote her--at least to where she's Adama's equal. If she were to bust Cain down to, say, ensign, all of Cain's people would assume it's because Roslin and Adama are so tight. Knocking her down to commander says "I'm punishing you, but I still believe in you and your ability to lead." Which in Roslin's case would be an outright lie, but the kind that keeps the troops from getting restless. Personally, even though I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision to take Cain out, I think finding a way other than assassination would be the best longterm plan if the ultimate goal is for both ships' crews to work together as a unified force. 'Cause if Cain dies under questionable circumstances, then there will always be crewmembers of hers who will be resistant to serving under Adama and Roslin. She needs to be exposed as completely nucking futs in a way that even the lowliest mechanic can't deny, court martialed, and then punished according to military protocols--which, in this case, would most likely be execution. They'd get the same end result (a dead Cain), but without any (or at least with far fewer) lingering suspicions and disgruntled soldiers. It's just so much harder a plan to put into practice...and waiting for her to demonstrate her nuttiness in a way that you can take advantage of it is so dangerous. Look at the damage she's already done. I mean, *I* think that stripping and marooning an entire civilian fleet should have exposed her as fulking nuts and gotten a mutiny underway...but no. The chain of command + fear of Cain formula was too strong. *sigh* It'd be nice to have her court-marshalled and executed. Just seems like making it happen would be problematic. CAN the President demote/promote her? I admit to having no idea how an Admiral gets to be an Admiral.... |
|
|
|
Post by Sara on Jan 9, 2006 15:08:34 GMT -5
The cylons (especially the humainform ones) are as human as the human beings that initially created them.. and I think you're right on the money with the "kill them all" being machine-logic. It's clear that the humaniforms, at least, have the moral complexity (and foibles) that ordinary humans do. Which would seem to indicate that, in a very machine-logicky way, the Cylons are already trying to figure out how to live with humans. Why the massacre, though, I can't figure out, if they already had the humaniform Cylon plans going. Perhaps it was about reducing numbers of humans in the world, to make the final plan, whatever it is, more manageable? The humaniform Cylons are going to provide the Cylons with a perspective on humanity (not great the past few weeks, I'd have to say), and if they pay attention, the humans will also get perspective on the Cylons. Also...well, I still think the Cylon "god" is a literal being. They know where he is and what he is. That's my guess. And how do you know their God's a he? |
|
|
|
Post by Sara on Jan 9, 2006 15:12:50 GMT -5
It's just so much harder a plan to put into practice...and waiting for her to demonstrate her nuttiness in a way that you can take advantage of it is so dangerous. Look at the damage she's already done. I mean, *I* think that stripping and marooning an entire civilian fleet should have exposed her as fulking nuts and gotten a mutiny underway...but no. The chain of command + fear of Cain formula was too strong. *sigh* It'd be nice to have her court-marshalled and executed. Just seems like making it happen would be problematic. My hope is that someone--maybe her XO--already has proof of her nuttiness in the form of a recording and has only lacked a position of strength from which to act on it. But now, with another ship and another commander to act as back-up... maybe whoever that person is will grow the spine needed to take a stand. If we presume that one of the President's functions is still Commander-in-Chief, then yes--I think Roslin could promote/demote anyone she wanted to. |
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Jan 9, 2006 17:04:45 GMT -5
Which would seem to indicate that, in a very machine-logicky way, the Cylons are already trying to figure out how to live with humans. Why the massacre, though, I can't figure out, if they already had the humaniform Cylon plans going. Perhaps it was about reducing numbers of humans in the world, to make the final plan, whatever it is, more manageable? The humaniform Cylons are going to provide the Cylons with a perspective on humanity (not great the past few weeks, I'd have to say), and if they pay attention, the humans will also get perspective on the Cylons. Also...well, I still think the Cylon "god" is a literal being. They know where he is and what he is. That's my guess. And how do you know their God's a he? I think a couple of them have said, "He," and given that my theory is that they know their god semi-personally, I went with male. I actually did give it a bit of thought. |
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Jan 9, 2006 17:06:23 GMT -5
It's just so much harder a plan to put into practice...and waiting for her to demonstrate her nuttiness in a way that you can take advantage of it is so dangerous. Look at the damage she's already done. I mean, *I* think that stripping and marooning an entire civilian fleet should have exposed her as fulking nuts and gotten a mutiny underway...but no. The chain of command + fear of Cain formula was too strong. *sigh* It'd be nice to have her court-marshalled and executed. Just seems like making it happen would be problematic. My hope is that someone--maybe her XO--already has proof of her nuttiness in the form of a recording and has only lacked a position of strength from which to act on it. But now, with another ship and another commander to act as back-up... maybe whoever that person is will grow the spine needed to take a stand. If we presume that one of the President's functions is still Commander-in-Chief, then yes--I think Roslin could promote/demote anyone she wanted to. And in a practical sense - is the Admiral likely to just take a demotion from a president she has absolutely no respect for? Her crew, especially the loyalists, will also have no respect for the president. So she could be demoted, but I wonder seriously if it would have any real effect on her behavior, or that of her crew. |
|
|
|
Post by fish1941 on Jan 9, 2006 18:46:30 GMT -5
I don't know what to think of this episode.
Politically, it was very interesting to watch the power play between Roslin, Adama and Cain. However, I had a difficult time staying awake. I think it was a mistake to make this a three-part episode. I hope the finale will prove to be worthwhile.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sara on Jan 9, 2006 20:05:08 GMT -5
And how do you know their God's a he? I think a couple of them have said, "He," and given that my theory is that they know their god semi-personally, I went with male. I actually did give it a bit of thought. Actually, I figured with my luck you'd have seen a first season episode I'd missed in which they specifically refer to their deity as "he" or "him." |
|
|
|
Post by Sara on Jan 9, 2006 20:08:11 GMT -5
My hope is that someone--maybe her XO--already has proof of her nuttiness in the form of a recording and has only lacked a position of strength from which to act on it. But now, with another ship and another commander to act as back-up... maybe whoever that person is will grow the spine needed to take a stand. If we presume that one of the President's functions is still Commander-in-Chief, then yes--I think Roslin could promote/demote anyone she wanted to. And in a practical sense - is the Admiral likely to just take a demotion from a president she has absolutely no respect for? Her crew, especially the loyalists, will also have no respect for the president. So she could be demoted, but I wonder seriously if it would have any real effect on her behavior, or that of her crew. An excellent point as well--that's why I figured the only sort of demotion that had a prayer of working was knocking her down to captain, as at least she'd still be making decisions and not answering to Adama. Anything less and there's almost no question that both Cain and her crew would just laugh their asses off. |
|
