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Post by Sara on Jan 9, 2006 20:11:47 GMT -5
I don't know what to think of this episode. Politically, it was very interesting to watch the power play between Roslin, Adama and Cain. However, I had a difficult time staying awake. I think it was a mistake to make this a three-part episode. I hope the finale will prove to be worthwhile. On a related note, my brother thought the ending of this episode would have also made for a killer cliffhanger. I disagreed, as I don't think the "OMG--What's gonna happen next" factor would have been nearly as strong if they'd ended the first half of the season here. I think overall, though, I'm inclined to agree with you--I'm not a big fan of breaking up a multi-part story as they did here.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 10, 2006 18:02:45 GMT -5
Am I the only one who ended up wondering, later on, if Adama would have been plotting Cain's assassination long before Roslin suggested it if Cain had been a man? Did it take another woman to really understand and acknowledge the threat Cain truly posed? Or was it more a matter of Roslin having a different perspective because she wasn't in the military, and thus didn't share Adama's sense of duty, respect and deference towards a superior officer--enabling Roslin to have a clearer head when it came to Cain and her actions?Thoughts, comments? That's what I am thinking. My impression is that being outside of the military did give her more of an objective perspective regarding Cain and her motives/actions and the threat that she posed. The respect for the chain of command is ingrained in Adama, and I think that it would not have mattered had Cain been a man. **nods** I see it as less the fact that she is also a woman and more that she is not only outside the military hierarchy, but also happens to be the top civilian authority. So, it is another leader he has come to respect (if not always agree with) who points out some important factors.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 10, 2006 18:03:33 GMT -5
OK, but... do you really think that Cain's officer is going to follow her orders this time, when there is another chain of command he can look to? Before, if he refused an illegal order, there was no refuge. Isn't the existance of Gallactica and a civilian authority something he can look to? Isn't that what the drinking scene was leading up to? Julia, ever the optimist That's what I thought, too - she's sending the wrong person. I only hope he's not so afraid of her that he just does it and worries about the karma later, as per usual. Yup. That's my concern.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 10, 2006 18:07:54 GMT -5
That's what I am thinking. My impression is that being outside of the military did give her more of an objective perspective regarding Cain and her motives/actions and the threat that she posed. The respect for the chain of command is ingrained in Adama, and I think that it would not have mattered had Cain been a man. Although it IS interesting, from the point of view that Dave and I have argued now, twice, about whether it's okay to shoot her in the head. I may just be more bloodthirsty than he is, but I was all over killing her the second she sentenced his men to death (actually, from the second I discovered she endorsed rape and torture of prisoners), while he's still arguing that she's a victim of circumstance. Not that she's not a monster, but that she might not be a native monster. I figure her for a waste of oxygen from Day 1, just looking for an excuse to become what she is now. So maybe it does take another woman to just go, "She's not worth trying to save." I worry about an assassination though - mostly because of the tone and precedent it sets. It, to some extent, validates the idea of a violent take-over as being the only option. I really wish Adama and Roslin could work together to organize an arrest and court martial over the business with the civilian fleet she destroyed and her sanction of torture, etc. Whether they could do that quickly enough, though . . .
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Post by Lola m on Jan 10, 2006 18:10:17 GMT -5
;D They might actually kick the Cylon's butts. *sigh* I don't WANT the Cylons' butts kicked. I'm a closet Cylon sympathizer. Not to say their extermination of most of the human race is at all a not-evil thing. But...I get the overwhelming sense that there's massive misunderstanding on both sides, and the machine logic is what leads to "kill them all". That's what you do with something that's a fundamental danger to you, as humans are to Cylons, after all. Also...well, there's all the what looks like experimentation going on, and the melding of the two types...I want to KNOW the Cylons, before they all go boom. I think maybe the melding of the cultures/life forms is the way to go. But then, I've read too much Octavia Butler. Oh, I think the culture melding is the better option as well (if it can be done before one side or the other is completely gone). And it may well be the direction the show is ultimately heading. Long long long way to go to get to that point, tho.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 10, 2006 18:11:20 GMT -5
She is crazed and powerful. But killing her would be sinking to her level. I wonder if there is another way. I can't believe her entire crew like serving under her. Foment a mutiny, perhaps?[/color] Which would then be... the Cain mutiny. Catchy name. [/quote]
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Post by Lola m on Jan 10, 2006 18:12:14 GMT -5
Unfortunately, unless you thought you could lock her up and have her not get out for as long as it takes to end the way (i.e. possibly forever), then I think the "shoot her in the head" plan is the only one that's viable. She's got too much ability and ruthless cunning to be allowed to walk free, and there's always going to be someone in her crew (probably a hundred someones) who liked the way she did things and remain loyal to her. So someone would always be looking to get her out, and you can't lock up everyone who backed her. Then you've got another situation like the prison ship from Season 1. In the situation, I think that removing the head of the monster is the only way to go. But I'm open to suggestions that take me out of the camp of the (I think) crazy President, too. Well, I suppose one option would be for Roslin to demote her--at least to where she's Adama's equal. If she were to bust Cain down to, say, ensign, all of Cain's people would assume it's because Roslin and Adama are so tight. Knocking her down to commander says "I'm punishing you, but I still believe in you and your ability to lead." Which in Roslin's case would be an outright lie, but the kind that keeps the troops from getting restless. Personally, even though I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision to take Cain out, I think finding a way other than assassination would be the best longterm plan if the ultimate goal is for both ships' crews to work together as a unified force. 'Cause if Cain dies under questionable circumstances, then there will always be crewmembers of hers who will be resistant to serving under Adama and Roslin. She needs to be exposed as completely nucking futs in a way that even the lowliest mechanic can't deny, court martialed, and then punished according to military protocols--which, in this case, would most likely be execution. They'd get the same end result (a dead Cain), but without any (or at least with far fewer) lingering suspicions and disgruntled soldiers. **nods nods nods nods**
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Post by Rachael on Jan 10, 2006 18:13:48 GMT -5
*sigh* I don't WANT the Cylons' butts kicked. I'm a closet Cylon sympathizer. Not to say their extermination of most of the human race is at all a not-evil thing. But...I get the overwhelming sense that there's massive misunderstanding on both sides, and the machine logic is what leads to "kill them all". That's what you do with something that's a fundamental danger to you, as humans are to Cylons, after all. Also...well, there's all the what looks like experimentation going on, and the melding of the two types...I want to KNOW the Cylons, before they all go boom. I think maybe the melding of the cultures/life forms is the way to go. But then, I've read too much Octavia Butler. Oh, I think the culture melding is the better option as well (if it can be done before one side or the other is completely gone). And it may well be the direction the show is ultimately heading. Long long long way to go to get to that point, tho. Trouble is, it may be a melding by force.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 10, 2006 18:15:09 GMT -5
I don't know what to think of this episode. Politically, it was very interesting to watch the power play between Roslin, Adama and Cain. However, I had a difficult time staying awake. I think it was a mistake to make this a three-part episode. I hope the finale will prove to be worthwhile. On a related note, my brother thought the ending of this episode would have also made for a killer cliffhanger. I disagreed, as I don't think the "OMG--What's gonna happen next" factor would have been nearly as strong if they'd ended the first half of the season here. I think overall, though, I'm inclined to agree with you--I'm not a big fan of breaking up a multi-part story as they did here. I go back and forth on the multi-part story. I mean, BSG is rather arc-heavy anyway, so frankly a lot of stand-alone eps could be kind of considered multiple parts.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 10, 2006 18:16:16 GMT -5
Oh, I think the culture melding is the better option as well (if it can be done before one side or the other is completely gone). And it may well be the direction the show is ultimately heading. Long long long way to go to get to that point, tho. Trouble is, it may be a melding by force. Well, it's already been a mass destruction by force, so I wouldn't be surprised.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 13, 2006 14:30:40 GMT -5
Rewatched.
I'm sort of getting a General Woundwort Vibe from Cain. Definite Watership Down connections, I think.
Cain appears to be applying the strategy she used on her colonial fleet on the Galactica, treating it like just another ship to exploit. Can we say power hungry?
Definitely doesn't want to put the war behind her, to the point that she's creating enemies.
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