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Post by Lola m on Nov 10, 2006 22:32:14 GMT -5
Why don't they let Helo in to see Sharon since humans can't be infected? I wondered about that too. I mean, was it just 'cuz they weren't sure how things were gonna go with her and so they wanted him separate? Or . . . ? I found Baltar!Six's discussion about how he could separate the mind from the body really interesting. Because I was assuming she meant your body may be there being tortured, but you can escape here into your mind with me. But instead, she stressed that his body was with her and his mind was back in the torture place. Hmmmmmmmm. I mean, it sort of makes sense, from a sexual / sensual perspective. Sort of. But also, sort of not. Interesting and surprising to me. #smirk# I think he totally freaked out Deanna!Three (or whatever the heck number she is). First, he's pushing all her buttons about the doubts she has regarding her faith, then he's apparantly going into some wierd ecstacy thing, then he's shouting out how he loves her and believes in her. Which he is saying to Six in his head, but you know that Deanna didn't know that. I think he rocked her little world quite a bit. ;D
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 10, 2006 22:35:32 GMT -5
Encephalitis. Humans are now immune. Cylons have anti-body in blood that breaks down vaccine. Er, um. Sigh. The Prayer to the Cloud of te Unknowing. Does that "humanize" them as it were to the humans? Now they know that Baltar is with the Cylons. A new beginning. Is that their plan? Much like you. But it's easier sad than done, sadly. They used to use these stick-collar things in old mental institutions, didn't they?Apollo's the first to figure it out. That's provided that there is only one resurrection ship. Genocide. Excellently done debate. I'm talking about losing a piece of our souls How do we know there aren't others like her? Who gets to designate personhood? And then we come back to shades of the Pegasus Rape Travesty. Ones with a simple collar were used in mental institutions in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. In the middle ages, devices like that with sharp spikes that faced inward with spring-loaded jaws (like the snap-hinge portion of a carabiner) were used for capturing cornered fugitives, and transporting them. You just popped it around their neck, bound their hands, and they went anywhere you guided them to. That must be what I'm thinking of.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 10, 2006 22:38:18 GMT -5
41,420...... NOT too dangerous, if it stays in quarantine with them.... Huh lots and lots of skinjobs coming aboard. Cottle thinks of them as human. Whoa! there goes the source of the contagion. Does anyone else think Sharon made the ship blow up? Yeah. They really haven't grasped how . . . ineffective the poor schmuck is. Always the big problem with torture. You very rarely ever learn anything. Everyone always says they do it to get info, but since we all know that doesn't actually work, really you just do it because you can and you want to hurt the person. And often to intimidate others. ;D I think Caprica Six was looking a bit sick there, wasn't she? And Deanna was looking freaked out a time or two. Interesting how they kept them in a brig-like area with beds and so on. Still manhandled them, of course. And the vaccine itself was an interesting turn of events. Since it would need to keep being re-administered, there was the possibility of it being used to . . . control the Cylons. Do what we say or we stop giving you the vaccine. Well, except that once they got some they'd no doubt figure out how to make their own supply.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 10, 2006 22:45:35 GMT -5
One aspect of the Do We or Don't We Genocide Issue was something Dualla brought up back in Exodus I or II, about how soldiers need a war. War giving our characters purpose...etc. Do Genocide and the conflict is unequivocably over and all our character's will to redefine themselves again.
Clearly there was enough there already that having it brought up would have detracted from how seemless the episode was, but I thought it was a significant aspect of the whole issue.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 10, 2006 22:53:20 GMT -5
Lymphocytic encephalitis... So simply a biological virus. They can go through the res ship with no problems. CENTURIONS?? Aren't they solid mechanical? they're biomech?? The HELL? This does not follow so much, to me.... unless the virus can encode itself in their memories. I guess. </fanwank> Prayer before final death... So the "cure" for the humaniform cylons is rendered only partially effective due to some element in their own blood.. And LEE's the one to bring up Genocide?! Crap! That was one of the more surprising elements of this all to me. So interestingly done. Everyone had valid points. Helo, Lee, Roslin, Adama. I found it very interesting how, because it was Helo saying it (because he had a vested interest and particularly because he had not been down on the planet) his point about "what if Sharon isn't the only one who could change" was dismissed. Because really there are 3 main arguments against the biological weapon that needed to be seriously considered, IMHO. And they really only paid a bit of attention to the first one. That doing this held a possiblity of doing serious harm to the humans as a people - the "lose a piece of our soul" thing. The second consideration, to me, is: what if it doesn't work? What if you don't get all of them? The virus mutates or they also develop an immunity or they figure out the vaccine in time, etc. You've guarranteed absolute hatred and justified a renewed "kill all the humans" policy. The third considersation comes right from what Helo was talking about. The Cylons actually were (in their own warped way) trying to "live together" on the planet. Now, they did very very very poorly, but from a very strict way of thinking it actually was a slight step up from nuking and hunting down and killing every human. And this was because a few Cylons were starting to question the status quo, etc. Coming from Helo, this was the equivalent of blasphemy, but it has a seed of a point. And Sharon is the absolute key point. You can't declare "all Cylons" to be one way or the other if you have differences between them like that. Her very difference means you have to wonder what other differences might be out there among the rest of the Cylons or that could eventually be out there among the rest. Excellent scene, wasn't it? Everyone had a point, really.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 10, 2006 22:54:54 GMT -5
Its interesting that the Cylons and the Humans have shifted from genocidal attack and Cylons hunting down humans to a potential battle over territory, i.e. Earth. At first it made me think that changing the nature of the conflict weakened the Pro argument, but on second thought, I'm not sure.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 10, 2006 22:56:35 GMT -5
Encephalitis. Humans are now immune. Cylons have anti-body in blood that breaks down vaccine. Er, um. Sigh. ;D Time to just put your hands over your ears and go "la la la, la la la". **nods** Yup. Made me think of a couple different STNG eps that I love. Like the one where they need to decide if Data is a person or property. Or the one where the all powerful entity kills "all the Husnak, everywhere". Ay-yup.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 10, 2006 22:57:33 GMT -5
Another thought. Athena's conscience didn't lead her to the same conclusion that Helo's did. Is that because she's Athena or because she's a Cylon? Or was she trying to overcompensate (not playing favorites, in a sense)?
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Post by Lola m on Nov 10, 2006 22:58:20 GMT -5
Lymphocytic encephalitis... So simply a biological virus. They can go through the res ship with no problems. CENTURIONS?? Aren't they solid mechanical? they're biomech?? The HELL? This does not follow so much, to me.... unless the virus can encode itself in their memories. I guess. </fanwank> I was sorta thinking that the centurions and heck the basestars too probably had some bio elements. As for Doc's explanation itself. I'm thinking this is one of the parts where they didn't get a chance or didn't care to polish that dialogue by consulting a scientist. I'm gonna do some google-fu about encephalitis Yeah, we've seen the flying ones have bio parts and now the baseships with the skin job that is flying them/is the ship. So I suppose it makes sense that the Centurions do too . . .
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Post by Lola m on Nov 10, 2006 23:03:13 GMT -5
Well, at least they regard torture as being nasty enough to warrant a warning. Thank god it's just that, and not bare nipples, or something. **snicker** ;D And, yeah! That was such a bizarre, fucked up, oddly beautiful and wacked out scene. Just . . . whoa! Totally confuzzled her. And there are obviously some very good reasons for that official "pass the buck" requirement. Can't just be a decision by one side or the other. Everyone has to agree that you really have to do this. **nods** A confused and questioning person indeed. Thus proving Helo's point with that moment alone . . . Yup.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 10, 2006 23:05:56 GMT -5
So, it's the torture that gets a parental advisory? The explicit sex? Or likely the combination of the two. #rofl1# Excellent point. And yet . . . history also has a way of coming back to haunt you, just when you think you had it all nice and tidy.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 10, 2006 23:08:06 GMT -5
Starbuck's back in the pilots' seat. I bet the Cylons are already dead. Yep. So nice that our intrepid Heroes are spared the consequences of their decisions Seems like they're always coming for one of us. Who is the real traitor: Athena or Helo? That line about "always coming for one of us" has some interesting possibilities for future eps . . . Yeah. And Roslin really doesn't have a leg to stand on there, either. ;D
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Post by Lola m on Nov 10, 2006 23:11:55 GMT -5
Another thought. Athena's conscience didn't lead her to the same conclusion that Helo's did. Is that because she's Athena or because she's a Cylon? Or was she trying to overcompensate (not playing favorites, in a sense)? I think because she's Athena, she's herself. I mean, I think it was meant to show us how she's become . . . her own individual person. Now, that person was forged/affected by always haveing to prove herself, so the overcompensating thing is in there too, I think.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 11, 2006 8:30:37 GMT -5
So if say Adama had discovered this virus when the colonists were still on Occupied New Caprica, would you feel differently about him using it? Or if the humans were currently in battle with overwhelming Cylon forces and about to be completely exterminated?
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Post by Rachael on Nov 11, 2006 12:25:39 GMT -5
Lymphocytic encephalitis... So simply a biological virus. They can go through the res ship with no problems. CENTURIONS?? Aren't they solid mechanical? they're biomech?? The HELL? This does not follow so much, to me.... unless the virus can encode itself in their memories. I guess. </fanwank> Indeed. No amount of talking about biofeedback and immune systems was enough to convince me and Dave that there'd be ANY danger to the resurrection ship. We started out thinking, well, maybe they don't know what it is, so they worry that it might be a computer virus that can be transmitted to every Cylon who links. Then...no. Because the Cylons can be excused if they don't know what it is, but once everyone DID know - silly. We thought that a better ending for this ep would have been to execute the prisoners as planned and discover, "Oops. Nope, that doesn't work. How silly of us."
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