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Post by Matthew on Nov 11, 2006 13:33:09 GMT -5
Lymphocytic encephalitis... So simply a biological virus. They can go through the res ship with no problems. CENTURIONS?? Aren't they solid mechanical? they're biomech?? The HELL? This does not follow so much, to me.... unless the virus can encode itself in their memories. I guess. </fanwank> Indeed. No amount of talking about biofeedback and immune systems was enough to convince me and Dave that there'd be ANY danger to the resurrection ship. We started out thinking, well, maybe they don't know what it is, so they worry that it might be a computer virus that can be transmitted to every Cylon who links. Then...no. Because the Cylons can be excused if they don't know what it is, but once everyone DID know - silly. We thought that a better ending for this ep would have been to execute the prisoners as planned and discover, "Oops. Nope, that doesn't work. How silly of us." I was just thinking that the Raiders and Heavy Raiders are as isolated as Daleks: that the infection had to get to them somehow: perhaps the basestars communicate with the raiders and heavy raiders (and now the centurions) (and of course, the humaniforms) with some sort of protein-production sequence code broadcast that allows for tweaking of their biological metabolism. With THIS idea set up, perhaps the viral protein code and the RNA code for the encephalitis got transcribed into the basestar's biomechanical system, became a sort of "computer virus" that way, and got transmitted to all of the cylons that were dependents of that basestar: that it was "biologically responsible" for, or "mothering" as the case may be. There's also the possibillity that the encephalitis got into the biometabolite supply that "feeds" the raiders, heavy raiders, centurions, humaniforms, and the biological elements of the basestars, but that strikes me as unreasonable,with the total mortality of the raiders. Hell, I dunno. That's the only way I can think of that it might work to infect ALL the cylons in close (symbiotic?) communication: the cylons back at the Moonlight Sonata also mentioned "boxing" the dying humaniforms and raiders (and presumably others) as a possible measure to prevent infection of the res ship: this presumes that they KNOW that the incoming cylon transmissions are gonna be infected. Now I wanna listen to the Podcast. AND call Ron Moore personally and ask him what the hell is going on.
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Post by Rachael on Nov 11, 2006 13:36:16 GMT -5
What, the floating dead biomechanoid raiders EVERYWHERE wasn't a clue?!?! That's what I said! I was all, "Sharon can't go!" And Dave was all, "They don't know that." My point? What's the first thing YOU think when you see bodies lying everywhere?
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Post by Matthew on Nov 11, 2006 13:37:44 GMT -5
What, the floating dead biomechanoid raiders EVERYWHERE wasn't a clue?!?! That's what I said! I was all, "Sharon can't go!" And Dave was all, "They don't know that." My point? What's the first thing YOU think when you see bodies lying everywhere? "I want my positive-air-pressure Bunny Suit"
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Post by Rachael on Nov 11, 2006 13:41:41 GMT -5
Thus endeth Helo's time as an XO. Hadn't thought about that, but yeah. Wonder if Tigh will be in any shape to step up again. Don't suppose anyone wants to check on him to make sure he's not dead of alcohol poisoning. I'm finding myself unable to care. I have lots of trouble watching Tigh, for personal reasons, and I wouldn't be at all unhappy if he put a bullet in his own head, just to relieve the anxiety he causes me every time he's onscreen....
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Post by Rachael on Nov 11, 2006 13:44:01 GMT -5
Ooh! A parental discretion warning. Wonders how bad it could be. I'd like to think it was because a serious examination of how far one might go in wartime and the ethics of possible genocide was a topic that should be viewed when there are adults around to have a discussion with. But I'm betting it was 'cuz of the nekkid!Baltar and sex during torture scenes. I do have to say that the sex + torture was just that much creepier and hard to watch than the ordinary torture. Ugh.
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Post by Rachael on Nov 11, 2006 13:49:37 GMT -5
Lymphocytic encephalitis... So simply a biological virus. They can go through the res ship with no problems. CENTURIONS?? Aren't they solid mechanical? they're biomech?? The HELL? This does not follow so much, to me.... unless the virus can encode itself in their memories. I guess. </fanwank> Prayer before final death... So the "cure" for the humaniform cylons is rendered only partially effective due to some element in their own blood.. And LEE's the one to bring up Genocide?! Crap! That was one of the more surprising elements of this all to me. So interestingly done. Everyone had valid points. Helo, Lee, Roslin, Adama. I found it very interesting how, because it was Helo saying it (because he had a vested interest and particularly because he had not been down on the planet) his point about "what if Sharon isn't the only one who could change" was dismissed. Because really there are 3 main arguments against the biological weapon that needed to be seriously considered, IMHO. And they really only paid a bit of attention to the first one. That doing this held a possiblity of doing serious harm to the humans as a people - the "lose a piece of our soul" thing. The second consideration, to me, is: what if it doesn't work? What if you don't get all of them? The virus mutates or they also develop an immunity or they figure out the vaccine in time, etc. You've guarranteed absolute hatred and justified a renewed "kill all the humans" policy. Yes! They were ignoring the biology - okay, there are only seven (12) models, plus the various raiders, etc. But there are always survivors of any plague. Genetic resistance, stochastic variation - some people just get lucky. And then you have an infuriated and selected-for-resistance group of surviving Cylons to deal with. Exactly. They weren't (anymore) trying to wipe out all humanity. That makes the "it's about survival" argument a little weaker.
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Post by Shan on Nov 12, 2006 14:17:14 GMT -5
Encephalitis. Humans are now immune. Cylons have anti-body in blood that breaks down vaccine. Er, um. Sigh. The Prayer to the Cloud of te Unknowing. Does that "humanize" them as it were to the humans? Now they know that Baltar is with the Cylons. A new beginning. Is that their plan? Much like you. But it's easier sad than done, sadly. They used to use these stick-collar things in old mental institutions, didn't they?Apollo's the first to figure it out. That's provided that there is only one resurrection ship. Genocide. Excellently done debate. I'm talking about losing a piece of our souls How do we know there aren't others like her? Who gets to designate personhood? And then we come back to shades of the Pegasus Rape Travesty. Ones with a simple collar were used in mental institutions in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. In the middle ages, devices like that with sharp spikes that faced inward with spring-loaded jaws (like the snap-hinge portion of a carabiner) were used for capturing cornered fugitives, and transporting them. You just popped it around their neck, bound their hands, and they went anywhere you guided them to. Animal control agencies use them as well.
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Post by Matthew on Nov 12, 2006 23:57:12 GMT -5
Ones with a simple collar were used in mental institutions in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. In the middle ages, devices like that with sharp spikes that faced inward with spring-loaded jaws (like the snap-hinge portion of a carabiner) were used for capturing cornered fugitives, and transporting them. You just popped it around their neck, bound their hands, and they went anywhere you guided them to. Animal control agencies use them as well. Very good point: anything to "dehumanize" them, treat them and show them as dangerous creatures rather than persons.
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Post by Shan on Nov 13, 2006 21:28:30 GMT -5
Animal control agencies use them as well. Very good point: anything to "dehumanize" them, treat them and show them as dangerous creatures rather than persons. That was one of my first thoughts. The other of my first thoughts was completely wincing that it was a black guy shackled, collared and animal-sticked. Completely un-BSG related and altogether our-culture related, but I just couldn't help it.
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Post by Shan on Nov 13, 2006 21:49:54 GMT -5
Another thought. Athena's conscience didn't lead her to the same conclusion that Helo's did. Is that because she's Athena or because she's a Cylon? Or was she trying to overcompensate (not playing favorites, in a sense)? For me (and I don't know whether that was the point or not) it means: it doesn't matter. A person is a person who makes their own choices about right and wrong.
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Post by Shan on Nov 13, 2006 21:55:33 GMT -5
So if say Adama had discovered this virus when the colonists were still on Occupied New Caprica, would you feel differently about him using it? Or if the humans were currently in battle with overwhelming Cylon forces and about to be completely exterminated? I don't think so. It would still be humans choosing genocide in the face of...Cylons choosing the whatever on New Caprica. I would choose what the Cylons did on New Caprica over genocide, no matter which side I was on.
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Post by Shan on Nov 13, 2006 22:05:13 GMT -5
Hadn't thought about that, but yeah. Wonder if Tigh will be in any shape to step up again. Don't suppose anyone wants to check on him to make sure he's not dead of alcohol poisoning. I'm finding myself unable to care. I have lots of trouble watching Tigh, for personal reasons, and I wouldn't be at all unhappy if he put a bullet in his own head, just to relieve the anxiety he causes me every time he's onscreen.... Really? Huh. I like Tigh, even though he pisses me off. I want to watch more of his story, because there's so much of it. He keeps getting the fuzzy end of the existential lollipop and sometimes he rises above it and sometimes he just crumples at the first sign of lint, but you never know what he's gonna do, so...interesting. And back to the pissing me off. So I still want to know what he's been up to and I bet we're going to find out soon.
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Post by Shan on Nov 13, 2006 22:11:11 GMT -5
I'd like to think it was because a serious examination of how far one might go in wartime and the ethics of possible genocide was a topic that should be viewed when there are adults around to have a discussion with. But I'm betting it was 'cuz of the nekkid!Baltar and sex during torture scenes. I do have to say that the sex + torture was just that much creepier and hard to watch than the ordinary torture. Ugh. I was able to do in my mind what #6 was ostensibly trying to do for Baltar during the torture: separate. Whether Baltar's #6 was a real projection like the Cylons are capable of doing or whether she was just an insane blip in Baltar-the-human's fractured mind, I was rooting for him being able to redirect the pain impulses to pleasure because, well..not all that fond of torture myself.
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Post by Matthew on Nov 13, 2006 22:12:06 GMT -5
Very good point: anything to "dehumanize" them, treat them and show them as dangerous creatures rather than persons. That was one of my first thoughts. The other of my first thoughts was completely wincing that it was a black guy shackled, collared and animal-sticked. Completely un-BSG related and altogether our-culture related, but I just couldn't help it. I DO think that was one of the elements of why a "Simon" was chosen for that treatment: to make it hit the viewer a little harder...
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Post by Rachael on Nov 13, 2006 22:14:28 GMT -5
I'm finding myself unable to care. I have lots of trouble watching Tigh, for personal reasons, and I wouldn't be at all unhappy if he put a bullet in his own head, just to relieve the anxiety he causes me every time he's onscreen.... Really? Huh. I like Tigh, even though he pisses me off. I want to watch more of his story, because there's so much of it. He keeps getting the fuzzy end of the existential lollipop and sometimes he rises above it and sometimes he just crumples at the first sign of ling, but you never know what he's gonna do, so...interesting. And back to the pissing me off. So I still want to know what he's been up to and I bet we're going to find out soon. It isn't that he pisses me off. He disturbs me and causes me real emotional pain when he's onscreen, especially when he's drinking himself into a coma. So I can't really judge him as a character because I can't see much beyond the self-destructive mess.
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