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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 0:57:20 GMT -5
I loved it. Some of my favorite moments. Now for the good stuff. Spike and Buffy, the night before the apocalypse. Did they or didn't they? FanFic writers are sharpening their pencils right now with thoughts of filling in that scene for readers! Just kidding. I do think Joss meant to leave the possibility open though.
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 0:57:39 GMT -5
Rhonda said: Nan...Spike found out what he was 'for' after all. About what I thought he'd think/feel. Yeah. That was right.
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 0:57:57 GMT -5
Did Buffy and Spike make love or not? The spent a night in the basement. And then she went down there again before it blacked out. Opinions? Edit: Oh, Athene asked the same thing. I know Joss meant to leave it open. evil, evil man...what do you think? Edited By Sue P at 5/20/2003 9:48:00 PM.
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 0:58:38 GMT -5
Oh, Ellie - you are SO WELCOME! I don't understand it, but I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes so PROUD of Spike and HE BEAT THEM ALL!! This is the most amazing thing to happen to me concerning the whole "Buffy" fandom since... well, since my weekend in Chicago! ;-) I mean, did you see the look of sheer bliss on his face? Pardon the expression, but he just looked angelic - he looked pure as if he were purified from within (as it sure looked)! I think both William AND Spike got what they wanted - to WIN and be the TOP CHAMPION. Yes, you could say in Spike's case it was "all for a girl" - but ultimately, I say he was answering to no one but himself and maybe (in my theology, anyway) God. The one thing that always drug Spike down over the years was, to me, his dependency on others' approval (usually his woman). What a beating the poor guy took in S5 and S6 for it! How it caused him to return to Sunnyhell in the first place! But since "Lies My Parents Told Me", our Spike became an adult, full-grown, matured MAN-PIRE, dependent on no one's approval. And you know - I almost think that by the end, he didn't even NEED to hear Buffy say "I love you". Oh, I'm glad the bitca finally SAID it, but I think he was past needing to hear it because he no longer DEPENDED on that to keep his spirit alive! He realized a Higher Purpose! Dare we say he finally achieved REDEMPTION in the end??? Could well be! Admittedly, I can't see myself dwelling a lot on the actual "passing" because Spike achieved such a WONDERFUL thing - but I love him even more and couldn't be prouder of anyone else! HE SHOWED 'EM ALL, DAMMIT!!! ;-)
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 0:59:03 GMT -5
So happy I'm not the only one here with my mind in the gutter!
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 0:59:38 GMT -5
//Spike and Buffy, the night before the apocalypse. Did they or didn't they? // I don't think so -- looked like another night of just cuddling. I say that because she was completely dressed when she got up, just minus the jeans jacket she was wearing. I think Buffy's speech to Angel was meant to say she's not ready to be in a relationship right now, that she's starting to see that for herself. But she does need to start connecting -- Spike is important for that much. And that's what they were doing in the basement, just connecting, being close. But I don't think they had sex. I don't think Joss wanted it to appear too much after her discussion with Angel that they did sleep together, because then it would look too much like when she was telling Angel about "someday" that she was specifically thinking Spike, but wanted Angel to think Angel. I think Joss wanted the audience to think Angel or Spike, depending on their preference. I sort of got the impression she meant sometimes Angel, sometimes Spike, possibly sometimes even Riley
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 1:24:19 GMT -5
Sometimes love is situational. And I've said that one of the most compelling and attractive of the virtues, to me, is courage. I believe Buffy is not IN LOVE with Spike but when she saw him shining so, and happy, and loving watching the marvelous destruction all around him with genuine vampire glee and knowing he was causing it with the soul he'd chosen to get of his own free will, she loved him then. She truly did, in that moment. That's not necessarily IN LOVE, but it's love, children. Even I can love Spike like that, and I do.
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 1:24:48 GMT -5
Nah, not surprised at all. What with his old "Ripper" background and all the magicks he & Ethan Rayne & crew did way back when, PLUS all his harrowing experiences as a Watcher on the Hellmouth, I'd think D&D would seem like - well, like child's play to him! ;-)
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 1:25:20 GMT -5
I came on the board to make a new part for the Finale - Chosen - and see I didn't need to bother. Just a few minutes too late. Makes me feel untrustworthy, folks. And oddly "visible." (Can't read anything until midnight eastern time.) Later...
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 1:31:13 GMT -5
Yes Athene, Betrayal is a strong word. Perhaps too strong. But it does sum up the feeling. Then again, someone has to be responsible for betrayal. Maybe I've just been betrayed by circumstance. I just wish I could have mourned Spike's passing. Then again, maybe I was betrayed. Maybe the WB spoiled my ending of a UPN show on purpose. Okay, well maybe not. But we are all allowed our conspiracy theories. But I must say, if Spike doesn't return on AtS next season, or if he is just some flash-back-in-memory-land guy, then I'll know I've been betrayed. And I'll kick someone in the shins. And I'll throw a tantrum and poke people with my sharp elbows. Or maybe I'll just pout
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 1:31:33 GMT -5
is if Spike's going to fall out of the sky all naked-like, the way Angel did.
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 1:32:02 GMT -5
You may be right, Nan, although to me, with me Buffy and especially how for so long she was never straight with Spike much about any positive feelings she had for him, I still wonder if she even felt REAL love for him in that monumental moment. One thing I neglected to mention in my excited diatribe was that not only did I feel Spike didn't need to hear her say it by then, but just like he said, he didn't believe her - and my God... he even said that with a smile! I'd say right now, in the words of the late Dr. M.L.King, Spike's heart was singing, "Free at last, free at last!"
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 1:32:24 GMT -5
Some things are too profound for tears. I didn't cry either, yet I love the image of Spike's joy at all the lovely destruction he's causing. Maybe there will be something you can latch onto as valid and true, as I have found them. It's a good story. It will stand doubting and second guessing. I believe it will be there for you when you're ready for it. Maybe you're ready for it now and it just hasn't had the courtesy to meet your halfway yet. In which case I hope it can reach out and gather you in from whatever distance. Peace upon you, Micha.
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 1:32:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I really don't want to see, for lack of a better term (and I haven't watched Charmed in years) White-lighter type guardian spirit Spike on AtS. I'll be pissed. And it's just the type of thing Mutant Enemy would try to pull off, and probably do well.
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Post by Dalton on Mar 16, 2004 1:33:20 GMT -5
// I believe Buffy is not IN LOVE with Spike but when she saw him shining so, and happy, and loving watching the marvelous destruction all around him with genuine vampire glee and knowing he was causing it with the soul he'd chosen to get of his own free will, she loved him then. She truly did, in that moment. That's not necessarily IN LOVE, but it's love, children.// Nan, that's always been my view of how Buffy saw Spike. She loved him, but was never in love with him, although he was in love with her. There was an admiration, a connection, but not a desire. He'll always hold a special place in her heart, but not the same as, for example, Angel. Angel she was in love with, but that relationship has it's own problems to sort out. Riley she loved, but she wasn't in love with -- not unlike Spike. Some of what she was trying to tell Angel is she now realizes she needs to sort a lot of those things out for herself, what's important and what's not. Perhaps one of the things she was also trying to tell Angel is than maybe the time she's spent with Spike last season and this has helped her to realize that the sex isn't as important as she thought it once was, so maybe she can be with Angel and not make love to him. But she's still got to sort all of that out for herself. And for a while at least, it sounds as if she doesn't want a relationship at all -- she needs to get comfortable in her own skin before she can go looking for new skin to place next to it ....
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