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Post by Queen E on Mar 19, 2008 18:59:26 GMT -5
Float on in and post your thoughts.
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Post by Queen E on Mar 19, 2008 19:51:28 GMT -5
Just read Becca's brief thoughts on the episode, and I can understand your rage.
But...I'm not sure we're supposed to read the mother's decision as the good one. To me, the episode was about committing to the reality of life, rather than living an illusion. That's what Rhys was saying to Gwen at the park; that her job is not about her playing the hero, living a fantasy, if you will, but rather about realizing what she's doing this for...ie, so people can continue to live and breath and breed and do all the normal things. That it has to be selfless, in some respects, rather than for the greater glory of Gwen.
The mother, on the other hand, would rather have lived with the dream, searching for her son caught on tape in some crowd, rather than face the reality of his pain. It's one thing to care for a son that's cute and popular and athletic; it's another to care for one that is broken and burnt and insane...but that son needs it more, and she didn't have it to give.
Gwen made the opposite choice, at the end of the episode; she shared with Rhys the pain of what happened, and yet opened the dialogue to make a choice for hope...and for someone in her position, with what she's seen, knowing what happens all the time in Cardiff, a decision to have a child would be a vote for the idea that there is something in their relationship, and in the world, that is worth the risk and pain. The risk and pain that the mother in this episode didn't choose to take on.
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Post by Queen E on Mar 19, 2008 20:39:25 GMT -5
Oh! Also, Gwen walking in on Ianto and Jack? Excellent.
I like how neither were that fazed by it...and it's about time. Since we've had Owen, Tosh, and Gwen sex scenes, a little parity is definitely necessary...
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Post by Michelle on Mar 22, 2008 22:01:11 GMT -5
Just read Becca's brief thoughts on the episode, and I can understand your rage. But...I'm not sure we're supposed to read the mother's decision as the good one. To me, the episode was about committing to the reality of life, rather than living an illusion. That's what Rhys was saying to Gwen at the park; that her job is not about her playing the hero, living a fantasy, if you will, but rather about realizing what she's doing this for...ie, so people can continue to live and breath and breed and do all the normal things. That it has to be selfless, in some respects, rather than for the greater glory of Gwen. The mother, on the other hand, would rather have lived with the dream, searching for her son caught on tape in some crowd, rather than face the reality of his pain. It's one thing to care for a son that's cute and popular and athletic; it's another to care for one that is broken and burnt and insane...but that son needs it more, and she didn't have it to give. Gwen made the opposite choice, at the end of the episode; she shared with Rhys the pain of what happened, and yet opened the dialogue to make a choice for hope...and for someone in her position, with what she's seen, knowing what happens all the time in Cardiff, a decision to have a child would be a vote for the idea that there is something in their relationship, and in the world, that is worth the risk and pain. The risk and pain that the mother in this episode didn't choose to take on. Well said, Erin. And sort of redeemed this episode for me a bit. Because I was so angry at Jack for not just telling Gwen from the beginning what he was up to. He hired her for her investigative skills, yes? Then he thinks she's NOT going to investigate something just because he tells her not to? *throws things in frustration* And I'm also a little angry at Ianto. He must have known what Jack was up to, else how else would he have been able to provide the GPS coordinates for Gwen? So why didn't he warn her in any way about what she would find? And THEN I got angry at Gwen for only doing a half-asss investigation before dragging the grieving mother to the facility. She couldn't have asked the nurse/caretaker lady what kind of symptoms Jonah had as a result of his trip through the Rift? And the nurse never said a word when the mother was led into the room, but then after the tearful reunion, the nurse decides to come in and say that she has to LEAVE!!!!!!! WTF? GAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I'm getting angry all over again!!!!!!!!! *takes deep breaths to calm down* But uh yes, the nekkid Ianto/Jack scene was hot. ;D ETA: Where can I find Becca's review?
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Post by Shan on Mar 23, 2008 1:14:09 GMT -5
Just a couple of minutes in and going "OMFG, I used to live in Penarth!" Back later with something relevant, maybe. ;D <edit> On Paget Road, if anybody cares. And if you do a Google map and find it, you can follow it down to the little roundabout where I nearly flipped my Ural 650 because the sidecar was on the wrong side of the bike.
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Post by Shan on Mar 23, 2008 3:22:16 GMT -5
I like Gwen's "Oh, BOLLOCKS to serenity!" in response to Owen starting to recite the AA "Serenity Prayer" as he looks at his bandaged hand...
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 23, 2008 10:27:46 GMT -5
Alien abduction? What is Jack hiding? Weevil hunting with Ianto. Hee. Cute. Torchwood's changed Gwen. Love and loss. Ooh wine! Marital troubles with Gwen and Rhys. Abducted by the rift? And then where would things go? So several people have been abducted by the rift. And their loved ones all want to be fashionably late. Investigation montage! Yeah, Jack is definitely hiding something. I would love to see Torchwood try to run a support group. Gwen catches Jack and Ianto going at it! Awesome, dudes. Ianto helping Gwen behind Jack's back? Secret society? Huh? Place for people abducted by the rift to recover? This is just like how Gwen got involved with Torchwood in the first place. Jack should know by now that just telling Gwen to drop something doesn't mean that she will. Wait, do the abducted people turn into Weevils eventually? Oh, guess not. Jack explains himself. But doesn't explain why he tried to hide it from Gwen. Increased rift abductions over the past year. If you lost some one, wouldn't you want to know. Ooh. This reunion is going to turn out badly. She's not going to be able to handle it, I'm guessing. Yep, she rejects him. But then they reconcile, yay! But then he... downswings. And, yeah. Better when she didn't know. Before you, I had hope. Can't say I'd agree in her position, but I think a lot of people would feel as she does. I have to say, Gwen and Rhys are working out a hell of a lot better than I was expecting them to.
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Post by Shan on Mar 23, 2008 11:34:52 GMT -5
Just read Becca's brief thoughts on the episode, and I can understand your rage. But...I'm not sure we're supposed to read the mother's decision as the good one. To me, the episode was about committing to the reality of life, rather than living an illusion. That's what Rhys was saying to Gwen at the park; that her job is not about her playing the hero, living a fantasy, if you will, but rather about realizing what she's doing this for...ie, so people can continue to live and breath and breed and do all the normal things. That it has to be selfless, in some respects, rather than for the greater glory of Gwen. The mother, on the other hand, would rather have lived with the dream, searching for her son caught on tape in some crowd, rather than face the reality of his pain. It's one thing to care for a son that's cute and popular and athletic; it's another to care for one that is broken and burnt and insane...but that son needs it more, and she didn't have it to give. Gwen made the opposite choice, at the end of the episode; she shared with Rhys the pain of what happened, and yet opened the dialogue to make a choice for hope...and for someone in her position, with what she's seen, knowing what happens all the time in Cardiff, a decision to have a child would be a vote for the idea that there is something in their relationship, and in the world, that is worth the risk and pain. The risk and pain that the mother in this episode didn't choose to take on. Well said, Erin. And sort of redeemed this episode for me a bit. Because I was so angry at Jack for not just telling Gwen from the beginning what he was up to. He hired her for her investigative skills, yes? Then he thinks she's NOT going to investigate something just because he tells her not to? *throws things in frustration* And I'm also a little angry at Ianto. He must have known what Jack was up to, else how else would he have been able to provide the GPS coordinates for Gwen? So why didn't he warn her in any way about what she would find? And THEN I got angry at Gwen for only doing a half-asss investigation before dragging the grieving mother to the facility. She couldn't have asked the nurse/caretaker lady what kind of symptoms Jonah had as a result of his trip through the Rift? And the nurse never said a word when the mother was led into the room, but then after the tearful reunion, the nurse decides to come in and say that she has to LEAVE!!!!!!! WTF? GAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I'm getting angry all over again!!!!!!!!! *takes deep breaths to calm down* But uh yes, the nekkid Ianto/Jack scene was hot. ;D ETA: Where can I find Becca's review? Here!
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Post by Shan on Mar 23, 2008 12:04:06 GMT -5
Just read Becca's brief thoughts on the episode, and I can understand your rage. But...I'm not sure we're supposed to read the mother's decision as the good one. To me, the episode was about committing to the reality of life, rather than living an illusion. That's what Rhys was saying to Gwen at the park; that her job is not about her playing the hero, living a fantasy, if you will, but rather about realizing what she's doing this for...ie, so people can continue to live and breath and breed and do all the normal things. That it has to be selfless, in some respects, rather than for the greater glory of Gwen. Sometimes, though, I feel like Torchwood is acting like the collective "LALALALALA" of the residents of Sunnydale. What I heard Rhys saying (partly) was that it's Gwen's job to help make sure that people can continue to go about their lives as IF everything were normal, but it's not. She's not necessarily LIVING a fantasy of her own, she's helping maintain one for the rest of the world. Why didn't they retcon the mom? I'll bet she would even have welcomed it. Then she wouldn't have to know about her son, and about Things, and about the fact that for all her dogged determination in looking for him, she couldn't cope with what she found. I do like that. And I AM bothered that the mother rejected him. I mean, what if there hadn't been the Torchwood aspect to what happened to him? What if he'd disappeared because he'd gone "naturally" mentally ill, and then been disfigured in a terrible accident, and she'd found him in a regular hospital somewhere where he was all scarred up and having episodes 20 out of 24 hours a day? What made it okay to just abandon him? Because "aliens" did it? He still has those 4 hours of every day where he knows his mother rejected him. Every day for the rest of his life. Grr. And I agree with Fotada about the ham-handed lack of proper investigation before the "reunion" between them.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Mar 23, 2008 16:07:19 GMT -5
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Post by Shan on Mar 23, 2008 19:22:35 GMT -5
Still thinking...
Gwen catching the Jack/Ianto show didn't to me seem to serve the purpose of furthering Jack/Ianto, but to create more confrontational material between Jack and Gwen in the form of what felt, IMO, like Jack using his ostensibly glib "There's always room for one more" comment to try to throw her off track. To me, it felt very aggressive at the time I watched it. I thought maybe he was trying to rattle her. At the very least. The previous ep would have been perfect for furthering what was Jack/Ianto. Showing us our first Jack/Ianto for-sure-confirmation scene as an avenue to further Jack/Gwen upsets me because a) it lessens Jack/Ianto and b) goes to Jack/Gwen which I do NOT want in SO many ways. And if the writers ARE trying to push Jack/Gwen off on us (LALALALALA), maybe there was supposed to be some..non-subtext to the 3-some suggestion. But I mean, really. Who invites a newlywed 20th century Welshwoman for a 3-some, even in jest? And you'd think anybody over the age of 300 would have better sense than to boink a subordinate at all, nevermind at the office.
Meh.
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Post by Shan on Mar 23, 2008 19:26:13 GMT -5
More thoughts, maybe not related to this ep but I don't know where to post them.
Remember in "They Keep Killing Suzie" how the reanimation glove was basically sucking the life force out of Gwen to keep Suzie going? I was thinking that maybe, since they've already told us the OTHER glove that reanimated Owen isn't connected like that to anybody else as the reason Owen is "alive" right now, they might find a way to use the glove to hook Owen and Jack up so that Jack's inexhaustible supply of "being alive" could be used to "fix" Owen's deadness.
Or maybe that comes at the end as a way to "fix" Jack's non-deadness.
Or both.
Anyway, just an idea.
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Post by Michelle on Mar 23, 2008 19:53:01 GMT -5
Thanks both of you! This episode really pushed some buttons, didn't it? I'm glad that I watched episode 12 soon after this one because it really helped get the bad taste out of my mouth.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 5, 2008 20:16:54 GMT -5
Cool - I like when we get to see Gwen's old cop co-workers and so on. Ooooh. "Watch you pledge your stupid life to him." So, he's got a thing for her, eh? Why does he think she knows about this? Ah. 'Cuz Jack was there. No response from him or Tosh, though. We've gotten this kind of comment from the cop guy before, that Gwen is "one of them now", a "you don't care/you're above this/you're not a cop anymore" thing. Mom blames herself, common reaction and often wrong. Oh, Gwen. Sorry I'm late. Babies now, I'm ready! Do you think I've changed? He fancies me. Let's have sex! Woops, I gotta go. I do love her, really I do. ;D ;D Huh. A negative rift signal? Oh! Things leaving thru the rift, not just sending things thru. Makes sense, really. I mean why would the rift only send stuff here? Just an opening, so . . . No one else at her missing person group. You'd be so torn. Wanting to talk with others, but if they are here well it means that these people have also suffered a loss, so . . . Well. This is a nice turnout.
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Post by Sara on Apr 5, 2008 20:20:57 GMT -5
You'd think Jack would know better than to think saying "it's over" means Gwen will give up. Plus he definitely seemed like he was hiding something.
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