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Post by Sara on Apr 21, 2008 11:02:10 GMT -5
Yup, it was harsh. But then I remembered Callie shooting a handcuffed woman—both out of hate and out of jealousy—in cold blood, and figured the karmic wheel had finally spun back around for Callie. This isn't to say what Tori did wasn't deplorable, 'cause it was. But for some reason I suspect Tigh might have done the same thing, and that makes me less certain of how I feel about Tori's actions. It's hard to see how she would have done anything else...I don't know what *I'd* do, in that situation, but - if you don't want to get blown out an airlock, and there's only one other (non-Cylon) who knows what you are...what do you do? Not that, ethically, I guess, but it's very...human. Yup, very much so.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 21, 2008 12:15:37 GMT -5
Yup, it was harsh. But then I remembered Callie shooting a handcuffed woman—both out of hate and out of jealousy—in cold blood, and figured the karmic wheel had finally spun back around for Callie. This isn't to say what Tori did wasn't deplorable, 'cause it was. But for some reason I suspect Tigh might have done the same thing, and that makes me less certain of how I feel about Tori's actions. It's hard to see how she would have done anything else...I don't know what *I'd* do, in that situation, but - if you don't want to get blown out an airlock, and there's only one other (non-Cylon) who knows what you are...what do you do? Not that, ethically, I guess, but it's very...human. **nods about the human-ness** And thus I don't know that we can put her actions down to her being a Cylon. That would be a cop-out, to me.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 21, 2008 12:24:04 GMT -5
Okay - could someone summarize what happened in the political meeting (I was distracted during that scene) and what happened with the Cylons? (killing, Boomer macking - it's a bit of a jumble) As I say, I didn't get to focus on this very well and really the only thing that I caught was the Tori,Callie stuff and the Kara stuff. I loved the dark, twisted nature of this episode and whoo hoo for Star Trek shout outs in the 1701D weapons locker. Well, I look to someone like Sara to give you more of the details/nuance stuff. I'd basically sum it up to be that Cavil appeared to concede to Six's group. Said that there had been another vote, etc. And set up a time and place to meet and, I guess, swap the reins of power or some such thing. (With the "macking on Cavil" Boomer siding one way and other Boomers not so much.) And then when they all met up, Six and company were wondering where the resurrection ship was, whoops not there. Cavil and company go all attack attack and blowed them up. And to me, the very very very most important bit was the Centurion who was cleaning up all the blood from the Cylon-on-Cylon massacre (using an actual rag! Too wacked out and bizarrely funny an image) gives Six this look when she orders him to escort Cavil off the ship. And so she says "please" and Cavil's comment about them starting something bigger than they can handle by allowing the Centurions to think/act more freely. Because that Centurion? You could actually see what it was thinking/feeling. I swear it had an expression. And dude, that was damn scary! Um. Which is probably not what you were looking for. Did you want more details or model numbers or actual quotage? 'Cuz I'm probably not the best one for that.
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Post by Sara on Apr 21, 2008 12:24:08 GMT -5
Okay - could someone summarize what happened in the political meeting (I was distracted during that scene) and what happened with the Cylons? (killing, Boomer macking - it's a bit of a jumble) As I say, I didn't get to focus on this very well and really the only thing that I caught was the Tori,Callie stuff and the Kara stuff. I loved the dark, twisted nature of this episode and whoo hoo for Star Trek shout outs in the 1701D weapons locker. Let's see... The Ones/Cavils were escorted off the base star, after Six/Natalie said the magic word to the Centurions , and later agreed to bring up the questions of whether D'Anna should be unboxed with the other models. The Ones later told the Sixes and Eights/Sharons that the others had voted to bring her back, but instead of sending the Sixes and Eights to a rendezvous the Ones led them into a trap–as the ambush included diverting the resurrection ship, the Ones clearly intend the permanent death of the Sixes and Eights who've been so staunchly opposing them. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that someone twigged to what the Ones had in mind and got a resurrection ship close enough to the area to save the others... if only to see the look on the Cavils' faces when confronted with their very much alive targets. The gist of the political stuff was: 1. While Roslyn allowed Lee to take a government position, she's nowhere near forgiving him for representing Baltar. 2. Zarek went to Lee with his concerns as to the ways in which Roslyn's leadership is becoming more of a benevolent dictatorship—especially with Admiral Adama right by her side ready to enforce her decrees. Zarek gave Lee a classified file, noting that Zarek believed Lee wasn't the kind of guy who'd sit idly by when something morally questionable was taking place—even if the person doing it was someone Lee liked and respected. 3. At his first quorum meeting, Lee got spanked by the president for trying to speak for her (sadly, it was only a metaphorical spanking), and retaliated by bringing up the contents of the file: it appears Roslyn was trying to set up a tribunal/judicial system in which she, as president, got to appoint all the judges. Which in turn meant she'd essentially be in control of the judicial and executive branches of government. Strangely enough, Lee was not the only one to find this idea a bit troubling. Roslyn tried to play the edict off as a work in progress and said she'd be happy to present the quorum with a more refined version of the plan the following week, but Lee and his fellow representatives were fairly adamant about hashing it out right there and then. I think that covers it, but other folks should feel free to chime in about things I've spaced out on. No pun intended.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 21, 2008 12:25:08 GMT -5
Yup, it was harsh. But then I remembered Callie shooting a handcuffed woman—both out of hate and out of jealousy—in cold blood, and figured the karmic wheel had finally spun back around for Callie. This isn't to say what Tori did wasn't deplorable, 'cause it was. But for some reason I suspect Tigh might have done the same thing, and that makes me less certain of how I feel about Tori's actions. Ah. Yes. The karmic wheel does keep a spinning. And there is a reason why there is the comparison being made here. I wonder what the chief is going to think when he figures out what really happened to his wife. Will he be relieved? It will also be interesting when Boomer finds out the Chief is a cylon. Oh- I had an interesting thought. What if the 12th cylon is Helo - and Boomer's baby is the first whole cylon child? **bounces** I've been very much wondering if we've got a whole Cylon baby lurking in here somewhere!!
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Post by Rachael on Apr 21, 2008 12:25:53 GMT -5
It's hard to see how she would have done anything else...I don't know what *I'd* do, in that situation, but - if you don't want to get blown out an airlock, and there's only one other (non-Cylon) who knows what you are...what do you do? Not that, ethically, I guess, but it's very...human. **nods about the human-ness** And thus I don't know that we can put her actions down to her being a Cylon. That would be a cop-out, to me. No, I think we absolutely can't. It's because she's a Cylon that she was put in that position, but it's the sort of PERSON she is that resulted in her taking that action. Hell, she and Baltar are a good match. I think the writers did this in order to get a large part of the fandom going, "See? SEE? Cylons are evil, even when they don't know it!" And then they'll pull the rug out from under us.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 21, 2008 12:29:38 GMT -5
Okay - could someone summarize what happened in the political meeting (I was distracted during that scene) and what happened with the Cylons? (killing, Boomer macking - it's a bit of a jumble) As I say, I didn't get to focus on this very well and really the only thing that I caught was the Tori,Callie stuff and the Kara stuff. I loved the dark, twisted nature of this episode and whoo hoo for Star Trek shout outs in the 1701D weapons locker. Let's see... The Ones/Cavils were escorted off the base star, after Six/Natalie said the magic word to the Centurions , and later agreed to bring up the questions of whether D'Anna should be unboxed with the other models. The Ones later told the Sixes and Eights/Sharons that the others had voted to bring her back, but instead of sending the Sixes and Eights to a rendezvous the Ones led them into a trap–as the ambush included diverting the resurrection ship, the Ones clearly intend the permanent death of the Sixes and Eights who've been so staunchly opposing them. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that someone twigged to what the Ones had in mind and got a resurrection ship close enough to the area to save the others... if only to see the look on the Cavils' faces when confronted with their very much alive targets. The gist of the political stuff was: 1. While Roslyn allowed Lee to take a government position, she's nowhere near forgiving him for representing Baltar. 2. Zarek went to Lee with his concerns as to the ways in which Roslyn's leadership is becoming more of a benevolent dictatorship—especially with Admiral Adama right by her side ready to enforce her decrees. Zarek gave Lee a classified file, noting that Zarek believed Lee wasn't the kind of guy who'd sit idly by when something morally questionable was taking place—even if the person doing it was someone Lee liked and respected. 3. At his first quorum meeting, Lee got spanked by the president for trying to speak for her, and retaliated by bringing up the contents of the file: it appears Roslyn was trying to set up a tribunal/judicial system in which she, as president, got to appoint all the judges. Which in turn meant she'd essentially be in control of the judicial and executive branches of government. Strangely enough, Lee was not the only one to find this idea a bit troubling. Roslyn tried to play the edict off as a work in progress and said she'd be happy to present the quorum with a more refined version of the plan the following week, but Lee and his fellow representatives were fairly adamant about hashing it out right there and then. I think that covers it, but other folks should feel free to chime in about things I've spaced out on. No pun intended. See! I told you that Sara would be the one to give a lot better detail and stuff! Like, for example, I totally missed saying anything about the political stuff. And Roslin's "work in progress - I'm trying to establish a real judicial system for us all again" thing came off, IMHO, as extremely lame and not bought by most of the folks there. Because really. If you are truly re-establishing the judiciary, why not just, like, say so out in the open and then have it created as it was before. Perhaps it might have to be smaller or altered slightly by the changed circumstances and so on. But creating something in secret, in which you appoint everyone and control it all? Not gonna come off well, and frankly I was surprised by it.
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Post by Michelle on Apr 21, 2008 12:35:41 GMT -5
Okay - could someone summarize what happened in the political meeting (I was distracted during that scene) and what happened with the Cylons? (killing, Boomer macking - it's a bit of a jumble) As I say, I didn't get to focus on this very well and really the only thing that I caught was the Tori,Callie stuff and the Kara stuff. I loved the dark, twisted nature of this episode and whoo hoo for Star Trek shout outs in the 1701D weapons locker. Let's see... The Ones/Cavils were escorted off the base star, after Six/Natalie said the magic word to the Centurions , and later agreed to bring up the questions of whether D'Anna should be unboxed with the other models. The Ones later told the Sixes and Eights/Sharons that the others had voted to bring her back, but instead of sending the Sixes and Eights to a rendezvous the Ones led them into a trap–as the ambush included diverting the resurrection ship, the Ones clearly intend the permanent death of the Sixes and Eights who've been so staunchly opposing them. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that someone twigged to what the Ones had in mind and got a resurrection ship close enough to the area to save the others... if only to see the look on the Cavils' faces when confronted with their very much alive targets. The gist of the political stuff was: 1. While Roslyn allowed Lee to take a government position, she's nowhere near forgiving him for representing Baltar. 2. Zarek went to Lee with his concerns as to the ways in which Roslyn's leadership is becoming more of a benevolent dictatorship—especially with Admiral Adama right by her side ready to enforce her decrees. Zarek gave Lee a classified file, noting that Zarek believed Lee wasn't the kind of guy who'd sit idly by when something morally questionable was taking place—even if the person doing it was someone Lee liked and respected. 3. At his first quorum meeting, Lee got spanked by the president for trying to speak for her (sadly, it was only a metaphorical spanking), and retaliated by bringing up the contents of the file: it appears Roslyn was trying to set up a tribunal/judicial system in which she, as president, got to appoint all the judges. Which in turn meant she'd essentially be in control of the judicial and executive branches of government. Strangely enough, Lee was not the only one to find this idea a bit troubling. Roslyn tried to play the edict off as a work in progress and said she'd be happy to present the quorum with a more refined version of the plan the following week, but Lee and his fellow representatives were fairly adamant about hashing it out right there and then.
I think that covers it, but other folks should feel free to chime in about things I've spaced out on. No pun intended. I am sure Pixi will appreciate both of your summaries, but I wanted to personally thank you, Sara, for explaining the parts in red. I am fuzzy on Zarek's role in government. I got that he was insuating that Roslyn wasn't on the up and up about something, but I wasn't sure if that meant he was just starting trouble, or if the president is truly overextending her powers. I guess that remains to be seen.
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Post by Pixi on Apr 21, 2008 12:38:24 GMT -5
Many thanks to both Lola and Sara for their awesome summaries. Thank you both very much as that helps alot.
Truly an awesome episode.
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Post by Karen on Apr 24, 2008 9:42:59 GMT -5
Let's see... The Ones/Cavils were escorted off the base star, after Six/Natalie said the magic word to the Centurions , and later agreed to bring up the questions of whether D'Anna should be unboxed with the other models. The Ones later told the Sixes and Eights/Sharons that the others had voted to bring her back, but instead of sending the Sixes and Eights to a rendezvous the Ones led them into a trap–as the ambush included diverting the resurrection ship, the Ones clearly intend the permanent death of the Sixes and Eights who've been so staunchly opposing them. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that someone twigged to what the Ones had in mind and got a resurrection ship close enough to the area to save the others... if only to see the look on the Cavils' faces when confronted with their very much alive targets. The gist of the political stuff was: 1. While Roslyn allowed Lee to take a government position, she's nowhere near forgiving him for representing Baltar. 2. Zarek went to Lee with his concerns as to the ways in which Roslyn's leadership is becoming more of a benevolent dictatorship—especially with Admiral Adama right by her side ready to enforce her decrees. Zarek gave Lee a classified file, noting that Zarek believed Lee wasn't the kind of guy who'd sit idly by when something morally questionable was taking place—even if the person doing it was someone Lee liked and respected. 3. At his first quorum meeting, Lee got spanked by the president for trying to speak for her, and retaliated by bringing up the contents of the file: it appears Roslyn was trying to set up a tribunal/judicial system in which she, as president, got to appoint all the judges. Which in turn meant she'd essentially be in control of the judicial and executive branches of government. Strangely enough, Lee was not the only one to find this idea a bit troubling. Roslyn tried to play the edict off as a work in progress and said she'd be happy to present the quorum with a more refined version of the plan the following week, but Lee and his fellow representatives were fairly adamant about hashing it out right there and then. I think that covers it, but other folks should feel free to chime in about things I've spaced out on. No pun intended. See! I told you that Sara would be the one to give a lot better detail and stuff! Like, for example, I totally missed saying anything about the political stuff. And Roslin's "work in progress - I'm trying to establish a real judicial system for us all again" thing came off, IMHO, as extremely lame and not bought by most of the folks there. Because really. If you are truly re-establishing the judiciary, why not just, like, say so out in the open and then have it created as it was before. Perhaps it might have to be smaller or altered slightly by the changed circumstances and so on. But creating something in secret, in which you appoint everyone and control it all? Not gonna come off well, and frankly I was surprised by it.It's all about the power, baby, and Roslyn and Adama might have a sort of truce now, but wait until they reach earth. Hoo boy...
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