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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 18, 2008 12:14:10 GMT -5
Yes - though I'd say it is more than that "he learned nothing." It really gives me this whiff of "doing it deliberately," as in "I'll show you" message to his critics from last time. I see it as a sort of "See? I know I didn't do anything wrong! I am going to do it again!" Yeeee. Twisting that a bit sideways (because it's so much fun, you know), I see it more as sort of "See? I know I did something wrong, but I'm going to do it again so that it looks like I think I didn't do anything wrong." And if we end up going into Iran the same way and for the same reasons we did Iraq, he'll use this same kind thinking to justify it. I'm kinda worried that he's going to attack Iran before the inauguration. I'm not sure whether that is justified though.
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Post by Sue on Jun 18, 2008 12:27:08 GMT -5
Twisting that a bit sideways (because it's so much fun, you know), I see it more as sort of "See? I know I did something wrong, but I'm going to do it again so that it looks like I think I didn't do anything wrong." And if we end up going into Iran the same way and for the same reasons we did Iraq, he'll use this same kind thinking to justify it. I'm kinda worried that he's going to attack Iran before the inauguration. I'm not sure weather that is justified though. This is where the application of checks and balances would be useful. You know, like the requirement that Congress vote to go to war, so it's not just a one man order.
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jun 19, 2008 20:17:01 GMT -5
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Post by Onjel on Jun 19, 2008 20:53:18 GMT -5
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 20, 2008 5:56:59 GMT -5
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 20, 2008 6:58:08 GMT -5
I’ve finally watched Reverend Wright’s NCAAP speech and his interview with Bill Moyers. This whole media hoopla reminds me why I avoid the TV media. Honestly. Rev Wright seems like a reasonable, thoughtful, caring, dedicated person who has done a lot for his community. He is critical of America at times, but, for the most part, he’s not wrong. And despite what the Man would have us believe nowadays, it’s not un-American to be critical of America. The whole thing seems like a deliberate attempt to stir up controversy and/or discredit Obama. It does Rev Wright a disservice to characterize him this way, and I feel sorry for Obama and his family that he had to leave the church just to shut the media up.
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Post by Sue on Jun 20, 2008 8:06:53 GMT -5
I’ve finally watched Reverend Wright’s NCAAP speech and his interview with Bill Moyers. This whole media hoopla reminds me why I avoid the TV media. Honestly. Rev Wright seems like a reasonable, thoughtful, caring, dedicated person who has done a lot for his community. He is critical of America at times, but, for the most part, he’s not wrong. And despite what the Man would have us believe nowadays, it’s not un-American to be critical of America. The whole thing seems like a deliberate attempt to stir up controversy and/or discredit Obama. It does Rev Wright a disservice to characterize him this way, and I feel sorry for Obama and his family that he had to leave the church just to shut the media up. Liz, This was my reaction. He did 3 media events in one weekend. I didn't see the Moyers thing, but understood that it went as you said. I did watch the entire speech live to the NAACP convention a day or two later and thoroughly enjoyed it. They (the media) took a few clips out of context from when he was demonstrating his theme "Different, but not Deficient." (He was using humor to show how JFK's accent was "different, but not deficient." And he imitated black and white marching bands; black and white clapping. However, the speech neither you nor I saw was another day or two later to the Press Club in DC. Apparently this is where he went off track (and off his rocker?) and back to the theme that the government sold crack to blacks to finance CIA ops and stuff like that. Might be interesting to dig up that footage. I'm also enamoured of the stat that all of the footage on YouTube strung together of him in the pulpit runs about 2 minutes, whereas he preached over 200,000 minutes over the course of his career. However, using this "defense" of sorts I am then also forced to use the same yardstick on other high profile figures. When Jon Stewart cuts together clips from old McCain speeches in all fairness I have to remember that he is taking very very brief soundbites out of a huge body of work, and also totally out of context. Funny as all get out, ususally, but entirely unfair to use as a basis for judging the total sum of someone's beliefs. Therefore, this survey is somewhat heartening: www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9100038&intsrc=news_ts_headIt describes what you and I have done regarding Rev. Wright. It says voters are using the internet widely to research election news. As with everything I think it probably describes a blessing/curse situation with regard to the interent and elections: 1. People use the internet to post inflammatory/questionable content stuff and forward all of that around. BUT 2. Read down several paragraphs---apparently people are actually using the internet to bypass the media talking heads and "Further, 39% of Americans online have used the Internet to access "unfiltered" campaign materials like video of candidate debates, speeches and announcements or candidate position papers. " In other words---find out for themselves exactly who said what in response to what question. This is good news.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 20, 2008 9:31:11 GMT -5
I’ve finally watched Reverend Wright’s NCAAP speech and his interview with Bill Moyers. This whole media hoopla reminds me why I avoid the TV media. Honestly. Rev Wright seems like a reasonable, thoughtful, caring, dedicated person who has done a lot for his community. He is critical of America at times, but, for the most part, he’s not wrong. And despite what the Man would have us believe nowadays, it’s not un-American to be critical of America. The whole thing seems like a deliberate attempt to stir up controversy and/or discredit Obama. It does Rev Wright a disservice to characterize him this way, and I feel sorry for Obama and his family that he had to leave the church just to shut the media up. Liz, This was my reaction. He did 3 media events in one weekend. I didn't see the Moyers thing, but understood that it went as you said. I did watch the entire speech live to the NAACP convention a day or two later and thoroughly enjoyed it. They (the media) took a few clips out of context from when he was demonstrating his theme "Different, but not Deficient." (He was using humor to show how JFK's accent was "different, but not deficient." And he imitated black and white marching bands; black and white clapping. However, the speech neither you nor I saw was another day or two later to the Press Club in DC. Apparently this is where he went off track (and off his rocker?) and back to the theme that the government sold crack to blacks to finance CIA ops and stuff like that. Might be interesting to dig up that footage. I'm also enamoured of the stat that all of the footage on YouTube strung together of him in the pulpit runs about 2 minutes, whereas he preached over 200,000 minutes over the course of his career. However, using this "defense" of sorts I am then also forced to use the same yardstick on other high profile figures. When Jon Stewart cuts together clips from old McCain speeches in all fairness I have to remember that he is taking very very brief soundbites out of a huge body of work, and also totally out of context. Funny as all get out, ususally, but entirely unfair to use as a basis for judging the total sum of someone's beliefs. Therefore, this survey is somewhat heartening: www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9100038&intsrc=news_ts_headIt describes what you and I have done regarding Rev. Wright. It says voters are using the internet widely to research election news. As with everything I think it probably describes a blessing/curse situation with regard to the interent and elections: 1. People use the internet to post inflammatory/questionable content stuff and forward all of that around. BUT 2. Read down several paragraphs---apparently people are actually using the internet to bypass the media talking heads and "Further, 39% of Americans online have used the Internet to access "unfiltered" campaign materials like video of candidate debates, speeches and announcements or candidate position papers. " In other words---find out for themselves exactly who said what in response to what question. This is good news. I just watched the press conference this morning. The link for it is here. I can see why he feels defensive; as I said before, I think this whole controversy has been a disservice to him. If, as he says, his ministry is typical of those of black churches, then the controversy does a disservice to black churches as a whole as well. His speech was mostly to try to educate (or more accurately begin to educate) the public about the black churches and a lot of it was drawn from the NCAAP speech. Then there was a Q&A session which he handled fairly well. Of course, for those intent on taking sound bites and manipulating them for nefarious purposes won't be deterred from doing so, but I don't know of any way to stop them, aside from ignoring their efforts to sensationalize. The one tricky thing that he said that is pretty easy to misconstrue was in response to being asked how he felt about Obama distancing himself from him, he said that Obama is a politician and he does what he has to do. Which he meant matter of factly, and I think he's right, but it can easily come across as saying that Obama doesn't mean what he says, but rather is saying it for political expediency. I'm not sure what a better response would have been, however. It's a sticky situation.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jun 24, 2008 17:03:59 GMT -5
A book recommendation, especially if you're a fan, as are we, of the original: Goodnight Bush. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. Both, most likely. It's brilliantly done, and the illustrations are as detailed and layered as those in Goodnight Moon.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jun 25, 2008 6:20:46 GMT -5
A book recommendation, especially if you're a fan, as are we, of the original: Goodnight Bush. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. Both, most likely. It's brilliantly done, and the illustrations are as detailed and layered as those in Goodnight Moon. LOL!
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Post by Sue on Jun 26, 2008 8:41:23 GMT -5
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jun 26, 2008 12:20:33 GMT -5
Fearless Leader strikes again. President Bush Meets with President Arroyo of the PhilippinesPRESIDENT BUSH: Madam President, it is a pleasure to welcome you back to the Oval Office. We have just had a very constructive dialogue. First, I want to tell you how proud I am to be the President of a nation that -- in which there's a lot of Philippine-Americans. They love America and they love their heritage. And I reminded the President that I am reminded of the great talent of the -- of our Philippine-Americans when I eat dinner at the White House. (Laughter.)
PRESIDENT ARROYO: Yes.
PRESIDENT BUSH: And the chef is a great person and a really good cook, by the way, Madam President.We're going to be at war with every major nation in the world by the time he leaves office. Has the man no common sense? No discretion? No manners? Stupid question. Forget I asked. I suppose we should all be grateful he didn't try to give Pres. Arroyo a neckrub. What's next? Complimenting the president of Mexico on how well his people scrub the White House toilets?
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Post by Sue on Jun 26, 2008 22:18:30 GMT -5
Have you checked in your neighborhood for a "Unite for Change" event this weekend? my.barackobama.com/page/event/search_simpleThe website says there are 3000 neighborhood events planned for this weekend. I searched for a 10 mile radius from my zipcode and found 12 events. One is around the corner for me but has already maxed out at 43 RSVPs. The next closest is also maxed out. I love the grassroots approach.
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Post by Sue on Jun 30, 2008 13:25:13 GMT -5
IT's like Thrall.
Spike:Brick Wall :: Obama:Oratory
So, I'm flicking through TV stations to put something on in the background while I fold laundry when I hit live feed of Obama giving a speech on patriotism in Independence, Missouri.
When he ended (20?, 30?) minutes later I was able to resume my daily activities.
I've heard/read/even seen that he is perhaps not the greatest off the cuff speaker. But, all due respect to the Office of President, I am afraid I am one of those people who can not watch live video of George Bush speaking for more than 3 seconds.
Obama is the other end of the spectrum. He might stand there and tell me little green men actually live on a moon made of cheese and I'd probably agree with him.
Or maybe not. Because the enthrallment is in the incredible sense of the content.
The speech was on Patriotism. Boy-howdy. Literally could not.look.away.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 30, 2008 23:02:47 GMT -5
Twisting that a bit sideways (because it's so much fun, you know), I see it more as sort of "See? I know I did something wrong, but I'm going to do it again so that it looks like I think I didn't do anything wrong." And if we end up going into Iran the same way and for the same reasons we did Iraq, he'll use this same kind thinking to justify it. I'm kinda worried that he's going to attack Iran before the inauguration. I'm not sure whether that is justified though. See the New Yorker. Totally justified, only I think "last week in October" is more likely. You can also hear about it on today's episode of Fresh Air.
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