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Post by Lola m on Jun 27, 2008 21:27:34 GMT -5
Ooh, never tell a child "it's just your imagination." Bad dad, no biscuit! Ah a trapped in another life scenario. What is Dr. Moon up to? I do love these jump cuts. Loved the jump cuts! And the way lots of time went by in the computer memory, while not much time going by outside made me think of "Overdrawn at the Memory Bank", which I've always loved. Nice. I didn't catch that. See, that's what I thought of too! There really were a lot, weren't there? I wonder if that was just a mini-theme for these two eps, or does it fit in the larger theme of the season? Yeah, I don't get that either. Unless she was thinking "detached", but still. Doesn't really fit the ending of the ep, so I'm thinking we're just supposed to see that she was hurt/angry and wasn't really right. Or, maybe the idea of no emotional connection is supposed to be some kind of commentary on the Doctor? Hmmmm. Nope, I got nothin'. I see it more as the Doctor's most common issue, that they are killing other beings. He's cool with them living in their forest existing as they should, but not that. Now that is one hell of a good comparison that makes me think of all sorts of neat possibilities. Very tasty sweet.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 27, 2008 21:31:01 GMT -5
So, I generally only buy DVDs if there are a majority of episodes that rewarded rewatching. The Moffat episodes always do that. Although this two-parter was a bit harder to get into, rewatching it is definitely worth it. For instance, the Miss Evangalista in the other reality, I've just realized is practically an homage to the avant-garde film Meshes of the Afternoon, in which a woman keeps seeing the same black-clad figure following her. When she pulls back the veil, the figures face is a mirror. I could argue, if writing an essay about this, that the distortion of Miss Evangalista's face is a reflection of the world that Donna finds herself in: almost right, but not quite, due to faulty information. And that would be a nifty essay point. Oh definitely meant to be a comparison. A deliberate mirroring.
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Post by Sue on Jun 27, 2008 22:47:28 GMT -5
There were some heart-wrenchingly sad moments to my mind:
1. When Donna's children disappear. I don't care that they weren't even real to begin with. She may even have known that on some level. But..........................a mother's WORST nightmare: her children disappear. That's just horrid.
2. I also was so very very sad that Donna's (virtual) husband couldn't call to her. Also a nightmare scenario. The very thing you most want/need to do (he loves her, wants to call to her, she wants to find him too) and he can't call out. That happens in nightmares---you can't get the words out.
3. And, of course the whole thing with The Doctor and River Song. Excuse me if I don't find a virtual existance inside a computer memory to exactly be "alive." The whole bittersweetness of him meeting her just as she has to leave him.
Oh, yeah, and the 4022 people "awakening" back in the library to find that the other billions of people on that world (anyone who wasn't in the library at the time) were eaten alive. Yuck.
[Did I ever mention that I so wanted John Crichton to be able to get home and HATED (hated!!!!) the way they played the eps with him returning to earth--like bad Star Trek time travel episodes. I don't do well with separation of family storylines.]
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Jun 28, 2008 7:17:35 GMT -5
There were some heart-wrenchingly sad moments to my mind: 1. When Donna's children disappear. I don't care that they weren't even real to begin with. She may even have known that on some level. But..........................a mother's WORST nightmare: her children disappear. That's just horrid. 2. I also was so very very sad that Donna's (virtual) husband couldn't call to her. Also a nightmare scenario. The very thing you most want/need to do (he loves her, wants to call to her, she wants to find him too) and he can't call out. That happens in nightmares---you can't get the words out. 3. And, of course the whole thing with The Doctor and River Song. Excuse me if I don't find a virtual existance inside a computer memory to exactly be "alive." The whole bittersweetness of him meeting her just as she has to leave him. Oh, yeah, and the 4022 people "awakening" back in the library to find that the other billions of people on that world (anyone who wasn't in the library at the time) were eaten alive. Yuck. [Did I ever mention that I so wanted John Crichton to be able to get home and HATED (hated!!!!) the way they played the eps with him returning to earth--like bad Star Trek time travel episodes. I don't do well with separation of family storylines.] 1. Yeah, that bit was scary. 2. In nightmares, and every *rudeword* day if you actually have a stutter. Therefore you develop strategies that don't require vocal communication. In other words, if he actually had lived with a stutter for any length of time, he'd have gone over to her, not stood there stuck. So I didn't like that bit for quite different reasons. 3. The world *is* the library, so there weren't any other billions. If I understood correctly.
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Post by Queen E on Jun 28, 2008 7:24:09 GMT -5
There were some heart-wrenchingly sad moments to my mind: 1. When Donna's children disappear. I don't care that they weren't even real to begin with. She may even have known that on some level. But..........................a mother's WORST nightmare: her children disappear. That's just horrid. 2. I also was so very very sad that Donna's (virtual) husband couldn't call to her. Also a nightmare scenario. The very thing you most want/need to do (he loves her, wants to call to her, she wants to find him too) and he can't call out. That happens in nightmares---you can't get the words out. 3. And, of course the whole thing with The Doctor and River Song. Excuse me if I don't find a virtual existance inside a computer memory to exactly be "alive." The whole bittersweetness of him meeting her just as she has to leave him. Oh, yeah, and the 4022 people "awakening" back in the library to find that the other billions of people on that world (anyone who wasn't in the library at the time) were eaten alive. Yuck. [Did I ever mention that I so wanted John Crichton to be able to get home and HATED (hated!!!!) the way they played the eps with him returning to earth--like bad Star Trek time travel episodes. I don't do well with separation of family storylines.] 1. Yeah, that bit was scary. 2. In nightmares, and every *rudeword* day if you actually have a stutter. Therefore you develop strategies that don't require vocal communication. In other words, if he actually had lived with a stutter for any length of time, he'd have gone over to her, not stood there stuck. So I didn't like that bit for quite different reasons. 3. The world *is* the library, so there weren't any other billions. If I understood correctly. As for #2, I kind of ascribed that to the trauma of being made "real" again.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 28, 2008 11:53:01 GMT -5
So, I generally only buy DVDs if there are a majority of episodes that rewarded rewatching. The Moffat episodes always do that. Although this two-parter was a bit harder to get into, rewatching it is definitely worth it. For instance, the Miss Evangalista in the other reality, I've just realized is practically an homage to the avant-garde film Meshes of the Afternoon, in which a woman keeps seeing the same black-clad figure following her. When she pulls back the veil, the figures face is a mirror. I could argue, if writing an essay about this, that the distortion of Miss Evangalista's face is a reflection of the world that Donna finds herself in: almost right, but not quite, due to faulty information. Not to mention that it is quite similar, in this respect, to what the nanogenes wrought in "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances," down to the idea that it was not malicious in intention...just misguided. Deliberate, right down to the "everybody lives" riff at the end. Though it didn't work as well for me the second time around, because, well - to my mind, she's still dead, even if she IS still a consciousness in a machine. And whothehell IS she? AACK. I'm dying here!
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Post by Rachael on Jun 28, 2008 11:55:30 GMT -5
Heh! I find it amusing that when the little girl is watching the library on the TV, she hears all the different dramatic music. ;D The "watching on television" part made me think of The Neverending Story, somehow. She's watching it happen, but it's not "just a story". Yeah...why does her knowing his real name require an apology? Hmm? And if she IS the wife, why does he "pop in" periodically to take her out? My husband doesn't have that sort of leeway. I think "serious girlfriend who gets that I'm out saving the universe" is more likely.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 28, 2008 12:00:37 GMT -5
There were some heart-wrenchingly sad moments to my mind: 1. When Donna's children disappear. I don't care that they weren't even real to begin with. She may even have known that on some level. But..........................a mother's WORST nightmare: her children disappear. That's just horrid. 2. I also was so very very sad that Donna's (virtual) husband couldn't call to her. Also a nightmare scenario. The very thing you most want/need to do (he loves her, wants to call to her, she wants to find him too) and he can't call out. That happens in nightmares---you can't get the words out. 3. And, of course the whole thing with The Doctor and River Song. Excuse me if I don't find a virtual existance inside a computer memory to exactly be "alive." The whole bittersweetness of him meeting her just as she has to leave him. Oh, yeah, and the 4022 people "awakening" back in the library to find that the other billions of people on that world (anyone who wasn't in the library at the time) were eaten alive. Yuck. [Did I ever mention that I so wanted John Crichton to be able to get home and HATED (hated!!!!) the way they played the eps with him returning to earth--like bad Star Trek time travel episodes. I don't do well with separation of family storylines.] Actually, I don't think there were billions of other people eaten alive...the library IS the planet, right? Maybe those 4022 were all that were present...I admit someone may have said, and I missed it.
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Post by Rachael on Jun 28, 2008 12:01:58 GMT -5
There were some heart-wrenchingly sad moments to my mind: 1. When Donna's children disappear. I don't care that they weren't even real to begin with. She may even have known that on some level. But..........................a mother's WORST nightmare: her children disappear. That's just horrid. 2. I also was so very very sad that Donna's (virtual) husband couldn't call to her. Also a nightmare scenario. The very thing you most want/need to do (he loves her, wants to call to her, she wants to find him too) and he can't call out. That happens in nightmares---you can't get the words out. 3. And, of course the whole thing with The Doctor and River Song. Excuse me if I don't find a virtual existance inside a computer memory to exactly be "alive." The whole bittersweetness of him meeting her just as she has to leave him. Oh, yeah, and the 4022 people "awakening" back in the library to find that the other billions of people on that world (anyone who wasn't in the library at the time) were eaten alive. Yuck. [Did I ever mention that I so wanted John Crichton to be able to get home and HATED (hated!!!!) the way they played the eps with him returning to earth--like bad Star Trek time travel episodes. I don't do well with separation of family storylines.] 1. Yeah, that bit was scary. 2. In nightmares, and every *rudeword* day if you actually have a stutter. Therefore you develop strategies that don't require vocal communication. In other words, if he actually had lived with a stutter for any length of time, he'd have gone over to her, not stood there stuck. So I didn't like that bit for quite different reasons. 3. The world *is* the library, so there weren't any other billions. If I understood correctly. Good. I remembered the same thing, then. And Dave had the same reaction as you did. "Why didn't he GO OVER THERE? It's his own fault. How hard is it to jump off the platform?"
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Post by artemis on Jun 28, 2008 14:37:43 GMT -5
my first impressions before reading anybody else's comments: i enjoyed this episode more than last week's, even though it still wasn't my favorite or anything. i felt like the plot was more tightly paced in this episode and i felt more emotionally invested in the secondary characters this time. i realized while i was watching what one of my big problems was with last week's episode; i don't feel any of the chemistry others of you have talked about feeling between alex kingston and DT, and i didn't really find the love story overly believable until their very last scene together (maybe because the doctor himself seemed a little skeptical of her until then). it seems like so much of these episodes hinge on that plot, so it makes sense to me that those of you that enjoyed that part more, enjoyed the episodes as a whole more.
i also have a question that has perhaps already been answered, so if it has, feel free to ignore me. the shadow creatures gave the doctor a day to find a solution for them. was the solution explicitly mentioned in the british version? if it was in the american one (was it?), i completely missed it. what was it? thanks.
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Post by artemis on Jun 28, 2008 14:50:41 GMT -5
Yeah...why does her knowing his real name require an apology? Hmm? And if she IS the wife, why does he "pop in" periodically to take her out? My husband doesn't have that sort of leeway. I think "serious girlfriend who gets that I'm out saving the universe" is more likely. i thought the same thing. like many of you, i'm also really curious as to what the one scenario is where he would tell someone his real name. until i read this thread, i had thought it might be a piece of mythology i was missing.
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Post by artemis on Jun 28, 2008 14:56:28 GMT -5
2. In nightmares, and every *rudeword* day if you actually have a stutter. Therefore you develop strategies that don't require vocal communication. In other words, if he actually had lived with a stutter for any length of time, he'd have gone over to her, not stood there stuck. So I didn't like that bit for quite different reasons. i absolutely agree. it seems like both doctor who and torchwood aren't very good at capturing the reality of living with certain things.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 28, 2008 20:52:20 GMT -5
There were some heart-wrenchingly sad moments to my mind: 1. When Donna's children disappear. I don't care that they weren't even real to begin with. She may even have known that on some level. But..........................a mother's WORST nightmare: her children disappear. That's just horrid. Very movingly sad! And how they build to it? The moments at the park where she's told they aren't real and then the kids themselves talk about it. Oh!! Alex Kingston was brilliant there, wasn't she? OMG! The look on her face when she realizes that he downloaded her into the computer? Slighty horrified and sad at first, and she says something about how he just can't let her go and you can tell she doesn't mean that in a totally happy way. And then she sees her friends and knows it's not going to be totally horrible, so she goes and greets them and hugs, but you also know she doesn't think he should have done it. Really? I wouldn't have guessed. (I kid! I kid because I love. )
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Post by Lola m on Jun 28, 2008 20:54:58 GMT -5
Heh! I find it amusing that when the little girl is watching the library on the TV, she hears all the different dramatic music. ;D The "watching on television" part made me think of The Neverending Story, somehow. She's watching it happen, but it's not "just a story". Yeah...why does her knowing his real name require an apology? Hmm? And if she IS the wife, why does he "pop in" periodically to take her out? My husband doesn't have that sort of leeway. I think "serious girlfriend who gets that I'm out saving the universe" is more likely. I'm also wondering if she could be some kind of connection to the Time Lords. Maybe not all gone, or someone not a Time Lord but somehow from Gallifrey, or descended from same, or . . . ?
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Post by Lola m on Jun 28, 2008 20:57:25 GMT -5
my first impressions before reading anybody else's comments: i enjoyed this episode more than last week's, even though it still wasn't my favorite or anything. i felt like the plot was more tightly paced in this episode and i felt more emotionally invested in the secondary characters this time. i realized while i was watching what one of my big problems was with last week's episode; i don't feel any of the chemistry others of you have talked about feeling between alex kingston and DT, and i didn't really find the love story overly believable until their very last scene together (maybe because the doctor himself seemed a little skeptical of her until then). it seems like so much of these episodes hinge on that plot, so it makes sense to me that those of you that enjoyed that part more, enjoyed the episodes as a whole more. i also have a question that has perhaps already been answered, so if it has, feel free to ignore me. the shadow creatures gave the doctor a day to find a solution for them. was the solution explicitly mentioned in the british version? if it was in the american one (was it?), i completely missed it. what was it? thanks. I got the impression that he's going to somehow get them back their forest. Like, move them to a forest or move the library off their planet so they can have the forest back. But, I'm sometimes wrong about plot stuff on shows, so if someone else knows better than me, please chime in!
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