|
Post by Rachael on Jun 29, 2008 11:12:01 GMT -5
my first impressions before reading anybody else's comments: i enjoyed this episode more than last week's, even though it still wasn't my favorite or anything. i felt like the plot was more tightly paced in this episode and i felt more emotionally invested in the secondary characters this time. i realized while i was watching what one of my big problems was with last week's episode; i don't feel any of the chemistry others of you have talked about feeling between alex kingston and DT, and i didn't really find the love story overly believable until their very last scene together (maybe because the doctor himself seemed a little skeptical of her until then). it seems like so much of these episodes hinge on that plot, so it makes sense to me that those of you that enjoyed that part more, enjoyed the episodes as a whole more. i also have a question that has perhaps already been answered, so if it has, feel free to ignore me. the shadow creatures gave the doctor a day to find a solution for them. was the solution explicitly mentioned in the british version? if it was in the american one (was it?), i completely missed it. what was it? thanks. I got the impression that he's going to somehow get them back their forest. Like, move them to a forest or move the library off their planet so they can have the forest back. But, I'm sometimes wrong about plot stuff on shows, so if someone else knows better than me, please chime in! Well, their forest is gone, right? They'd need a new one - their forests got made into books. They came with the books, which, ugh. I kept looking at all my bookshelves, wondering if maybe Kindle isn't such a bad idea after all.
|
|
|
Post by Queen E on Jun 29, 2008 14:24:49 GMT -5
Heh! I find it amusing that when the little girl is watching the library on the TV, she hears all the different dramatic music. ;D The "watching on television" part made me think of The Neverending Story, somehow. She's watching it happen, but it's not "just a story". Yeah...why does her knowing his real name require an apology? Hmm? And if she IS the wife, why does he "pop in" periodically to take her out? My husband doesn't have that sort of leeway. I think "serious girlfriend who gets that I'm out saving the universe" is more likely. Maybe she apologized because he would know something quite specific about the future, that he didn't want to know. I had a deeper thought about this, but last night's episode (UK-side) completely broke my brain.
|
|
|
Post by artemis on Jun 29, 2008 18:53:24 GMT -5
I got the impression that he's going to somehow get them back their forest. Like, move them to a forest or move the library off their planet so they can have the forest back. But, I'm sometimes wrong about plot stuff on shows, so if someone else knows better than me, please chime in! Well, their forest is gone, right? They'd need a new one - their forests got made into books. They came with the books, which, ugh. I kept looking at all my bookshelves, wondering if maybe Kindle isn't such a bad idea after all. i don't know if their forest is completely gone or not, but the doctor (or was it the talking creature?) did say that they came in spores in the books. since (according to the doctor at least) they're on every planet, i don't know if they also reproduce in forests on other worlds. i didn't hear the doctor say he was going to take them back to their world, but i could have just missed it. i guess maybe what happened to the creatures will remain unknown. moffat is good at making us afraid of seemingly innocuous things, isn't he? statues, books, ...
|
|
|
Post by KMInfinity on Jun 29, 2008 20:35:01 GMT -5
Random thoughts wile reading the thread….
I'm plumping down on the side of those who enjoyed the episode more than not. I bought The Doctor/Prof. River Song love, so much that I was quite emotional when he realized he could "save" her. The episode worked for me for a bunch of other reasons, especially for making me really like Donna for the first time. It's taken me awhile to warm up to her, and all the angst with losing her virtual hubby and children seemed to have turned the trick.
I also thought the deal the Doctor made with the shadows was to turn the library over to them – the library of books being the only forest they ever knew. That’s why he had 24 hours to get the 4022 off-library. But, how do the shadows survive without any meat if there are no more corporeal visitors? So maybe this plot point is murky, or I didn’t understand it either.
I *think* the million-million lifeforms the library reported included the shadows, not that only 4022 of a billion were rescued.
After seeing both episodes for a second time, I took it that Prof. Song apologized for the “one word,” which we later learn is The Doctor’s name, because she realized that revealing it would be violating his rule about “no spoilers” and not crossing his timeline. Also, her telling him his name is a bit of manipulation on her part, and she knows it and feels bad about it, but she needed to break the rules in the greater scheme of things to gain his trust, which he doesn’t like to do anyways.
Why was the computer able to bring back the 4022 bodily, but couldn’t bring back River Song and company? If the computer is able to “save” people as data, what happens to the physical body while being saved? It doesn’t physically exist any more, correct? It’s not like the actual physical bodies were stored somewhere waiting for the computer to download the saved memories back into the bodies. So, I assume the computer had a Star Trek-like replicator, built new bodies per the stored data, and downloaded the 4022 into their “new” bodies. So why couldn’t River Song’s body be replicated? Saving the consciousness didn’t save the physical data? A DNA swab from the dead corpse should be sufficient for computer of that power. This whole thing reminds me of “transporter/replicator” issues I always had with Star Trek. Reminds me of one of Arthur C. Clarke’s laws that “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
|
|
|
Post by artemis on Jul 11, 2008 22:27:15 GMT -5
Why was the computer able to bring back the 4022 bodily, but couldn’t bring back River Song and company? If the computer is able to “save” people as data, what happens to the physical body while being saved? It doesn’t physically exist any more, correct? It’s not like the actual physical bodies were stored somewhere waiting for the computer to download the saved memories back into the bodies. So, I assume the computer had a Star Trek-like replicator, built new bodies per the stored data, and downloaded the 4022 into their “new” bodies. So why couldn’t River Song’s body be replicated? Saving the consciousness didn’t save the physical data? A DNA swab from the dead corpse should be sufficient for computer of that power. This whole thing reminds me of “transporter/replicator” issues I always had with Star Trek. Reminds me of one of Arthur C. Clarke’s laws that “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” the way i understood it (and anyone is welcome to correct me!) is that the 4022 were "saved" while being teleported - i.e. while they were still alive - whereas if someone died while they were still outside the computer system, they couldn't be saved in the same way, only saved as a representation of the person who had been alive.
|
|
|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 14, 2008 19:45:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jul 14, 2008 21:04:30 GMT -5
Very thoughtful essay. I loved the careful exploration of the different storylines and themes. And her summary is lovely - "Moffat leaves us in the air, safe but not".
|
|
|
Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jul 15, 2010 12:34:06 GMT -5
*sniffle*
Yeah, he shouldn't have done it, but I don't really blame him. He's lost so much already.
*sniffle sniffle*
I've always liked Alex Kingston, too.
Afterthought: River Song chose, too - she had the screwdriver, and somebody had to decide to load her data into it, and I think that somebody was River. River made sure The Doctor knew about her screwdriver, so he could decide whether to save her to the library or let her go forever.
She knows The Doctor better than anyone, apparently, and she knew he'd choose to save her in any way he could, given the chance. So I think the decision, ultimately, was mutual.
|
|