4.09: Forest of the Dead

[Queen E]

Yikes. Things are not looking good...

[Queen E]

So River Song knows The Doctor's real name? Is there some bit of Who mythology I'm missing as when he can actually tell someone that? And who the hell is she?!

Also, she mentioned that she'd been at the end of the universe with him, and I could have SWORN she called him Yana. I'm dying of curiousity here...because the only people at the end of the universe with him specifically were Martha and Jack; not to mention Yana and Chantho.

[beccaelizabeth]

Jun 7, 2008 20:35:40 GMT -5 Queen E said:

So River Song knows The Doctor's real name? Is there some bit of Who mythology I'm missing as when he can actually tell someone that? And who the hell is she?!

Also, she mentioned that she'd been at the end of the universe with him, and I could have SWORN she called him Yana. I'm dying of curiousity here...because the only people at the end of the universe with him specifically were Martha and Jack; not to mention Yana and Chantho.

She's from his future so it's a different trip to the end of the universe.

I can't think of anything from TV series canon about the Doctor's name. I think they're setting something up new.

[Queen E]

Jun 8, 2008 6:58:01 GMT -5 beccaelizabeth said:

Jun 7, 2008 20:35:40 GMT -5 Queen E said:

So River Song knows The Doctor's real name? Is there some bit of Who mythology I'm missing as when he can actually tell someone that? And who the hell is she?!

Also, she mentioned that she'd been at the end of the universe with him, and I could have SWORN she called him Yana. I'm dying of curiousity here...because the only people at the end of the universe with him specifically were Martha and Jack; not to mention Yana and Chantho.

She's from his future so it's a different trip to the end of the universe.

I can't think of anything from TV series canon about the Doctor's name. I think they're setting something up new.

But why would he have gone back to the end of the universe? Wouldn't that be crossing his own timeline?

Perhaps I'm needlessly complicating things, but there were so many callbacks to other things in this episode: set in 51st century, the use of a squareness gun...

[beccaelizabeth]

Jun 8, 2008 19:27:57 GMT -5 Queen E said:

Jun 8, 2008 6:58:01 GMT -5 beccaelizabeth said:

She's from his future so it's a different trip to the end of the universe.

I can't think of anything from TV series canon about the Doctor's name. I think they're setting something up new.

But why would he have gone back to the end of the universe? Wouldn't that be crossing his own timeline?

Perhaps I'm needlessly complicating things, but there were so many callbacks to other things in this episode: set in 51st century, the use of a squareness gun...

that's like saying 'why would he have gone back to the 20th century'. The end of the universe has more than one day in it.

[Spaced Out Looney]

Ooh, never tell a child "it's just your imagination." Bad dad, no biscuit!

Ah a trapped in another life scenario.

What is Dr. Moon up to?

I do love these jump cuts.

"fully integrated."

River and the Doctor have been to the end of the universe.
Like... in Utopia or whatever that episode was called?

So what does River whisper to the Doctor?

The Doctor jumps into Doctor Mode.

A doctor moon. Aha!

Doll of Donna, but without a face.
Because the face is on the infobot.


Is this a shadow, or one of the other people who got killed?
Yep, it's the pretty girl.

The shadows hunt in forests.
Hence the title, I'd guess.
But the books are wood, so it's kind of like a forest.

The shadows come from The Library.

Yeah, the Doctor figures it out.
trees-books-shadows.

The same boy and the same girl over and over.
Cool.

And the pretty girl has a distorted face.

It's like the Doctor's not finished, not done yet.
It's not *her* Doctor.
Hmm, this sounds like it's going somewhere interesting.

lots about faces in this episode.

Everyone was caught in the pattern buffer </star trek>

I've been dieting!
Hee!

two qualities required for seeing absolute truth: brilliant and unloved.


It's a dream. The girl's dream then? Huh?

"Cow"
Huh?

She remote controlled her dad.
What is going on?

Oh, "cal."
Nope, still doesn't make any more sense.

How does Dave know all this?

The girl is the computer.
And her other world is an amalgation of every book ever written? Are there literary references in the other world? Cause if so I missed them.

She's family.

Charlotte Abigail Lux.

She was why The Library was built.

Only half a life, but it was forever.

4000 people chattering away inside her head, must be like being the Doctor.
Interesting.


The Doctor: back in Doctor mode.

So the Doctor is mostly concerned about the shadows crossing him, as opposed to violating some universal law.

Shadows spreading out, really cool.

So this is where the relationship ends for River, but begins for the Doctor.
This is sort of like a John/Dalenn thing.

Ah, she whispered his real name in the Doctor's ear.
And there's only one time when he would have told anyone his real name. Which is?


I will find you.
How very Last of the Mohicans.

And all the people return.

Donna's NotHusband. Was a figment of her imagination or something else?

Oh yeah Doctor Moon, Professor Song.
Like the Master was the Professor.

Spoilers.

When you run with the Doctor, feels like it will never end. But how ever how hard you try, you can't run forever. Everybody knows that everybody dies and nobody knows it like the Doctor.

She got saved in the sonic screwdriver.

Everybody dies, but not every day. Not today.

River gets downloaded into the data core to live forever.
And joins her teammates.

The Doctor snaps his fingers and the TARDIS opens.

Everybody lives.

Sweet dreams, everyone.

[Spaced Out Looney]

There were a lot of neat bits in these two, but they didn't wow me as much as the other ones that Moffatt did.

[Queen E]

So, I generally only buy DVDs if there are a majority of episodes that rewarded rewatching. The Moffat episodes always do that.

Although this two-parter was a bit harder to get into, rewatching it is definitely worth it. For instance, the Miss Evangalista in the other reality, I've just realized is practically an homage to the avant-garde film Meshes of the Afternoon, in which a woman keeps seeing the same black-clad figure following her. When she pulls back the veil, the figures face is a mirror. I could argue, if writing an essay about this, that the distortion of Miss Evangalista's face is a reflection of the world that Donna finds herself in: almost right, but not quite, due to faulty information.

Not to mention that it is quite similar, in this respect, to what the nanogenes wrought in "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances," down to the idea that it was not malicious in intention...just misguided.

[Lola m]

Heh! I find it amusing that when the little girl is watching the library on the TV, she hears all the different dramatic music. ;D

Hmmmm. Interesting and rather cool way to depict Donna stored in the memory of the library. All missing bits, big jumps forward in the story/time-line, the repeated "and then you remembered" and so on.

She's another end of the universe-visiting person. Cool! So he gets back there again!

Heh! "I didn't pluck it from your cold dead hands, if that's what you're worried about."

Well, like "old married couple" isn't a dead giveaway. What's she tell him, eh!? Eh? How does she prove it and why does that make her so sorry?

Doctor moon. Huh. Donna! Another person gets gotted by the shadows! Eeeeple!

Tint her visor, maybe they'll think they're alreay in there. I like it! ;D

Time to run again.

[Lola m]

I really like how they're doing these . . . jumps in the programming.

The world is wrong. So, who's the Victorian widow and why doesn't the little girl want Donna to go see her?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Cool!! It's the first woman who got gotted!! Miss Evangelista!!! Super neato!

Heee! Carniverous **mumble something** in a suit.

Doctor tries to talk to them, and it works - go him! And they hatched from books instead of trees, which makes sense.

Whoa. That's a bit of a drop.

Very effective when she says the thing about all the children being the same and then the camera pulls back. Dramatic!

Ooooh! Melty bendy Picasso face.

[Lola m]

The Doctor's here, but not her Doctor.

Interesting description of her Doctor. And very interesting conversation with the woman in the darkened visor.

Oh now the Doctor gets the importance of "saved"?

Miss E's face was transcribed wrong and it did wonders for her intellect. So, is this proving the whole pretty-but-dumb bit by reversing it? I'm a very poor copy of myself.

Little girl is not happy.

They're all caught in the teleport. Like Scotty was in Star Trek NG.

Donna and the Doctor figuring it out together. (A decimal point shifted in my IQ. Heh!!) All a dream of the one little girl, maybe?

The children are only sustained by her belief. Ohhhh, my! She made daddy go bye bye, didn't she.

And started the self destruct. So. The little girl is the library, then? Or the little girl is the shadow things? Or . . . .?

[Lola m]

The little girl is the computer maybe, cracking from the strain? And now she's turned off Doctor Moon, the diagnostic program. That can't be good.

Oh, that's right! The rich guy was also looking for this "Cal". Something hidden in the computer, that he wants? And it's hiding there?

Woo hoo! Magical whooshy elevator gravity platform disc-thinge to the center of the wooooorld!!

We're not real, are we? When you're not here, we're not here. Damn. That's pretty damn creepy, that is.

Doctor tries to wake her up. A child hooked up to a mainframe. Ah! The old "dying so they upload her so she can live forever" thingee. Half a life, but forever. And she saved all the people in the library, but she "forgot".

Yeah, having all those other people in with her could make you go nutty.

Heeee! More "end of the world-hook me up, I won't die, sometimes I hate you, shut up" banter. ;D

And he's gonna make an offer to the shadows and aha, he knew when she was taken over by them!!

I loved that moment when he suddenly turned right toward her/them/the suit and said: "I really liked Anita. She was brave, even when she was crying and she never gave in."

[Lola m]

Ohhhhhh, chilling!!! "I am the Doctor and you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up." And they go back.

But he'll still try to give them a chance to have their forests as long as they release the others. Also because he's the Doctor. He really wants all kinds of life to survive, unless they force him.

Of course, she decides to take his place. "I'm not supposed to have a career, I suppose."

"This means you've always known how I was going to die."



"It's not over for you. You'll see me again."

His name. Only one time he'd give his name.

Donna and her computer hubby. Is he real? Well, that's subjective, eh?

4022 people saved. And now back.

Everything, nothing, not that much difference.

They're all right and off they go and oopsie, he was there. Of course! ;D

[Lola m]

Coda:

Professor Song and all the temptations of looking at spoilers. But they're strong and nope. Not looking.

Next chapter's this way.



Weeee! The screwdriver!!!! "I'm very good!" Dive, Doctor, dive!

Everybody knows that everybody dies. But not everyday, not today. And she's got friends in the "made better" core. All her dead traveling buddies. Cool!!






"Somedays, nobody dies at all" is this season's "everybody lives, Rose". Oh! And now they actually say it - everybody lives. So, it's like the two parter with the Doctor Dances, in that way.

Nice. I like.

[Lola m]

Jun 8, 2008 6:58:01 GMT -5 beccaelizabeth said:

Jun 7, 2008 20:35:40 GMT -5 Queen E said:

So River Song knows The Doctor's real name? Is there some bit of Who mythology I'm missing as when he can actually tell someone that? And who the hell is she?!

Also, she mentioned that she'd been at the end of the universe with him, and I could have SWORN she called him Yana. I'm dying of curiousity here...because the only people at the end of the universe with him specifically were Martha and Jack; not to mention Yana and Chantho.

She's from his future so it's a different trip to the end of the universe.

I can't think of anything from TV series canon about the Doctor's name. I think they're setting something up new.

I don't remeber anything, (although my knowledge is not complete and my memory is extremely spotty). So, I think something new too. Like, they'll be married or are family in some way, or the future of the Time Lords in some manner, or . . . ?

Or, I'm wondering, maybe any or all of these? Because the writers/creators are just building tantalizing possibilities at this point and don't have all the future storylines that ever could be mapped out yet?