5/7: Fool For Love

[William the Bloody]

Written by Douglas Petrie
Directed by Nick Marck
Air date: 11/14/00

After being impaled by a vampire, Buffy turns to Spike, who claims to have killed two Slayers, in an attempt to learn how other Slayers met their end.

[Lola m]

So. This is the Soulful Spike Society. Spike’s kind of an important guy around here. Folks tend to obsessively ogle watch for Spike in episodes. They like to discuss their real or fantasized liplocks with him Spike’s history and arc, examine his delicious nekkid body motives and thoughts. Really stalk get into the character, ya know?

Thus, our second most requested episode here in week 9 of the Sizzlin’ Buffy Episode Festival should come as no surprise!

Fool for Love




Slayers. You killed two of them. You're gonna show me how.

I know I'm a bad poet but I'm a good man and all I ask is that... that you try to see me . . .

Drusilla: Do you want it? WILLIAM: Oh, yes! God, yes.

Don't you ever get tired of fights you know you're going to win?

Lesson the first: a Slayer must always reach for her weapon.

You ever hear them saying the blood of a Slayer is a powerful aphrodisiac? Here, now... have a taste.

Lesson the second. The question isn't "How'd I win?". The question is "Why'd they lose?".

Every Slayer... has a death wish. Even you.

It wouldn't be you, Spike. It would never be you. You're beneath me.

I look at you... all I see is the Slayer.

I'm going to be fine.

Is there something I can do?

It’s time to bask in the Spikeness – to wallow in Spike-atude – to pause and magnify his . . . attributes. In short – to celebrate the life, death, unlife, re-death, ghostlyness, recorporealization and continued glory of our beloved William, the Bloody Awful Poet.

**crowd begins to chant . . . .Spike! Spike!! SPIKE!!!**

Go forth and read Spring’s powerful Spikecentricity analysis of Fool for Love here.
(click on Spikecentricity, then scroll down to season 5 and click on the episode title)

And the discussion of her analysis is here.

[Spaced Out Looney]

So, to start things off, there is something I've always wondered about this episode that some one maybe be able to comment on...

The Spike/Chinese Slayer fight and then the Spike/Dru sex takes place in a Buddhist temple. I think there's got to be symbolism there, because why not just place that scene in some random alley. But my knowledge of Buddhism is kind of slim, so what is being said here?

[SpringSummers]

ehills said:

So, to start things off, there is something I've always wondered about this episode that some one maybe be able to comment on...

The Spike/Chinese Slayer fight and then the Spike/Dru sex takes place in a Buddhist temple. I think there's got to be symbolism there, because why not just place that scene in some random alley. But my knowledge of Buddhism is kind of slim, so what is being said here?

Hmmmmm. I have very slim knowledge as well. It makes me think of sacrilege - I mean, having sex by the corpse of his victim, in a place of worship . . . certainly paints a picture of absolute, selfish hedonism.

Also, it makes me think of the fact that sex will one day prove redemptive for Spike, though I haven't really thought that through.

[Lola m]

ehills said:

So, to start things off, there is something I've always wondered about this episode that some one maybe be able to comment on...

The Spike/Chinese Slayer fight and then the Spike/Dru sex takes place in a Buddhist temple. I think there's got to be symbolism there, because why not just place that scene in some random alley. But my knowledge of Buddhism is kind of slim, so what is being said here?

I would tend toward it emphasizing how demons / vampires / slayers in general, and Spike in particular, will wreck any attempt at calm peacefulness. Even as fighting is going on outside, people are not wrecking this place. But a vampire (and slayer) are. Of course, the bomb going off outside does disturb things, so people aren't going to hold off from disturbing peacefulness either. They'll just wait a bit longer than vamps.

Interesting that it is this explosion that (likely) saves Spike. Random chance just happening to occur right at the time that this young and impetuous vamp needs a distraction. So it basically encourages him to keep going with a "just plunge in and go for it" kind of attitude. 'Cuz it works for him a lot.

Not with Dana over on AtS, of course.

[SpringSummers]

lolam said:

ehills said:

So, to start things off, there is something I've always wondered about this episode that some one maybe be able to comment on...

The Spike/Chinese Slayer fight and then the Spike/Dru sex takes place in a Buddhist temple. I think there's got to be symbolism there, because why not just place that scene in some random alley. But my knowledge of Buddhism is kind of slim, so what is being said here?

I would tend toward it emphasizing how demons / vampires / slayers in general, and Spike in particular, will wreck any attempt at calm peacefulness. Even as fighting is going on outside, people are not wrecking this place. But a vampire (and slayer) are. Of course, the bomb going off outside does disturb things, so people aren't going to hold off from disturbing peacefulness either. They'll just wait a bit longer than vamps.

Interesting that it is this explosion that (likely) saves Spike. Random chance just happening to occur right at the time that this young and impetuous vamp needs a distraction. So it basically encourages him to keep going with a "just plunge in and go for it" kind of attitude. 'Cuz it works for him a lot.

Not with Dana over on AtS, of course.

The same thing happens with the Subway Slayer - they happen to go through a tunnel at just the right moment - the Slayer has the advantage, but the sudden darkness provides the distraction and edge Spike needs, and he ends up killing her.

The whole ep is about that though - the impact of external vs internal forces, on the creation of our selves, our histories, our lives.

[Lola m]

I sometimes forget (between watchings of this ep) how much I love trying to figure out how much of Spike's "real" story he is telling Buffy and how much he is making up.

Everything we see in flashback is what actually happened (I assume). But how much of that (if any) does he really tell her. He comes off pretty good in the fight in the mine between him and Angelus - so does he tell her about that because he'd love an opportunity to take Angelus down a peg in her eyes? If he did, I'll bet he embellished it a bit - made himself more clearly a winner in the whole encounter.

We know he didn't tell her about what Dru said, because that flashback happened after he has left Buffy. Also, I don't think it would be the kind of thing he'd tell Buffy at this point.

I tend to assume he doesn't tell her the story of Cecily, because at that moment he wouldn't want Buffy to know he was ever this geeky poet guy. But what did he tell her? I'd find it really interesting to see some "flashbacks" to the tale he spins for Buffy.

[Spaced Out Looney]

lolam said:

I sometimes forget (between watchings of this ep) how much I love trying to figure out how much of Spike's "real" story he is telling Buffy and how much he is making up.

Everything we see in flashback is what actually happened (I assume). But how much of that (if any) does he really tell her. He comes off pretty good in the fight in the mine between him and Angelus - so does he tell her about that because he'd love an opportunity to take Angelus down a peg in her eyes? If he did, I'll bet he embellished it a bit - made himself more clearly a winner in the whole encounter.

We know he didn't tell her about what Dru said, because that flashback happened after he has left Buffy. Also, I don't think it would be the kind of thing he'd tell Buffy at this point.

I tend to assume he doesn't tell her the story of Cecily, because at that moment he wouldn't want Buffy to know he was ever this geeky poet guy. But what did he tell her? I'd find it really interesting to see some "flashbacks" to the tale he spins for Buffy.

I've often wondered about that too... My thinking is that the closer he gets to the present (up to killing Nikki in 1977), the closer he gets to telling what really happened, because his situation looks better and better as time progresses and he builds himself up.

As far as the flashback to the break-up scene, well no, since he's not talking to Buffy at this point, it's just inspired by what Harmony says. But it's interesting to compare the actual break-up scene with his version of it in Lovers Walk. I don't think he lied exactly then, more like only told half the story.

[SpringSummers]

ehills said:

lolam said:

I sometimes forget (between watchings of this ep) how much I love trying to figure out how much of Spike's "real" story he is telling Buffy and how much he is making up.

Everything we see in flashback is what actually happened (I assume). But how much of that (if any) does he really tell her. He comes off pretty good in the fight in the mine between him and Angelus - so does he tell her about that because he'd love an opportunity to take Angelus down a peg in her eyes? If he did, I'll bet he embellished it a bit - made himself more clearly a winner in the whole encounter.

We know he didn't tell her about what Dru said, because that flashback happened after he has left Buffy. Also, I don't think it would be the kind of thing he'd tell Buffy at this point.

I tend to assume he doesn't tell her the story of Cecily, because at that moment he wouldn't want Buffy to know he was ever this geeky poet guy. But what did he tell her? I'd find it really interesting to see some "flashbacks" to the tale he spins for Buffy.

I've often wondered about that too... My thinking is that the closer he gets to the present (up to killing Nikki in 1977), the closer he gets to telling what really happened, because his situation looks better and better as time progresses and he builds himself up.

As far as the flashback to the break-up scene, well no, since he's not talking to Buffy at this point, it's just inspired by what Harmony says. But it's interesting to compare the actual break-up scene with his version of it in Lovers Walk. I don't think he lied exactly then, more like only told half the story.

Yes - same feeling. He prefaces his storytelling at first with "What can I tell you baby, I've always been bad." And then when he's telling the Angel part, he prefaces it with "I had to get myself a gang," as if HE was the leader.

So though we don't get the details, we get the flavor of what he must be telling her - stories that give the idea that he's "always been bad," and that he was dominant in the foursome, or at least equal to, Angel (though Buffy would surely have some sense that this was fabrication or exaggeration with the Angel part at least.)

I would guess that he told a story of possibly being at a party, and either leaving on his own because it was so boring, or some girl he wasn't interested in kept trying to get his attention (turning the tables in the story), or because of bad behavior that got him kicked out - and then running into Dru - I imagine he would tell of being quite bold with Dru, and Dru finding him irresistible and biting him to make him her own, or some such thing.

I mean, you can't start out "What can I tell you baby, I've always been bad," and then follow-up with a story like the one we saw.

I'm sure the Angel story was fudged some (though I would agree not as much - wouldn't have to be, since Spike really was pretty tough in that exchange). But I would imagine he wouldn't tell anything that clearly signaled Angel was the leader - which several things in the story did.

[Karen]

springsummers said:

ehills said:

So, to start things off, there is something I've always wondered about this episode that some one maybe be able to comment on...

The Spike/Chinese Slayer fight and then the Spike/Dru sex takes place in a Buddhist temple. I think there's got to be symbolism there, because why not just place that scene in some random alley. But my knowledge of Buddhism is kind of slim, so what is being said here?

Hmmmmm. I have very slim knowledge as well. It makes me think of sacrilege - I mean, having sex by the corpse of his victim, in a place of worship . . . certainly paints a picture of absolute, selfish hedonism.

Also, it makes me think of the fact that sex will one day prove redemptive for Spike, though I haven't really thought that through.

That's a good thought. I'll be interested to hear what you come up with.

I don't know much about Buddism either, but I think it does parallel the many Christian settings we see Buffy fighting vampires in the U.S.

What is it that draws vampires to places of worship anyway? Or are they there first, and the churches are built where the most evil activity occurs?

Or do people who worship God seem more vulnerable to the vampires? Primarily made up of families with innocent children, maybe?

[Lola m]

karen said:

springsummers said:

Hmmmmm. I have very slim knowledge as well. It makes me think of sacrilege - I mean, having sex by the corpse of his victim, in a place of worship . . . certainly paints a picture of absolute, selfish hedonism.

Also, it makes me think of the fact that sex will one day prove redemptive for Spike, though I haven't really thought that through.

That's a good thought. I'll be interested to hear what you come up with.

I don't know much about Buddism either, but I think it does parallel the many Christian settings we see Buffy fighting vampires in the U.S.

What is it that draws vampires to places of worship anyway? Or are they there first, and the churches are built where the most evil activity occurs?

Or do people who worship God seem more vulnerable to the vampires? Primarily made up of families with innocent children, maybe?

Giles and Willow sure seemed to think that the Hellmouth made people want to build churches and so on.

I wonder if Joss puts in those scenes because he knows it's likely to make his audience really see the contrast - that it will "get" to people?

I also love how we get such a contrast in Spike's two battles with Slayers. One in the serene setting of a temple while a war rages outside. One on a rushing noisy subway in a big busy city, but in an empty car rushing through the night - no one else around so it's almost . . . serene.

I just love the pictures that Joss makes. ;D

[SpringSummers]

lolam said:

karen said:

That's a good thought. I'll be interested to hear what you come up with.

I don't know much about Buddism either, but I think it does parallel the many Christian settings we see Buffy fighting vampires in the U.S.

What is it that draws vampires to places of worship anyway? Or are they there first, and the churches are built where the most evil activity occurs?

Or do people who worship God seem more vulnerable to the vampires? Primarily made up of families with innocent children, maybe?

Giles and Willow sure seemed to think that the Hellmouth made people want to build churches and so on.

I wonder if Joss puts in those scenes because he knows it's likely to make his audience really see the contrast - that it will "get" to people?

I also love how we get such a contrast in Spike's two battles with Slayers. One in the serene setting of a temple while a war rages outside. One on a rushing noisy subway in a big busy city, but in an empty car rushing through the night - no one else around so it's almost . . . serene.

I just love the pictures that Joss makes. ;D

Yes - the placement of the fight with the NY Slayer is perfect: Spike is making this part of his journey at high speed, through the darkness of the night, and underground. Absolutely wonderful.

My favorite part of that whole absolutely perfect scene is the way the "subtext becomes text" and it literally intrudes into the present as SubwaySpike talks to Buffy, and then we're back in the alley, with present day Spike clapping his hands in her face.

And the "Oh - did I scare ya?" So perfect.

The writing, the directing, the actors in that scene on the subway and then in the alley - mesmerizing.

"You know you wanna dance."

"It wouldn't be you Spike, it would never be you."

"You're beneath me."

The scenes right after that with Harmony - Mercedes is wonderful in it - "Think, Spike!" and then, with Buffy talking to her mom about the tumor, so beautifully connected to what came before - "that nothing I've been dealing with? It might not be nothing." ("You're nothing to me William. You're beneath me.)

"Every Slayer has a death wish." Death, showing up in person, in Joyce's backyard. Then the killer ending, where Spike brings comfort, not death.

It's too much - I love this ep to pieces. I wrote pages about it, yet left out a million things, because it's endlessly complex - so beautifully done - the Riley parts blending in so perfectly as well. "Who's the man?" asks Dawn - and our guys in the ep, all trying to answer that question. Though for this ep, and in other contexts still to come, the answer is: Spike, baby. Spike's the man. (A short, annoying man).

[Spaced Out Looney]

springsummers said:

lolam said:

Giles and Willow sure seemed to think that the Hellmouth made people want to build churches and so on.

I wonder if Joss puts in those scenes because he knows it's likely to make his audience really see the contrast - that it will "get" to people?

I also love how we get such a contrast in Spike's two battles with Slayers. One in the serene setting of a temple while a war rages outside. One on a rushing noisy subway in a big busy city, but in an empty car rushing through the night - no one else around so it's almost . . . serene.

I just love the pictures that Joss makes. ;D

Yes - the placement of the fight with the NY Slayer is perfect: Spike is making this part of his journey at high speed, through the darkness of the night, and underground. Absolutely wonderful.

My favorite part of that whole absolutely perfect scene is the way the "subtext becomes text" and it literally intrudes into the present as SubwaySpike talks to Buffy, and then we're back in the alley, with present day Spike clapping his hands in her face.

And the "Oh - did I scare ya?" So perfect.

The writing, the directing, the actors in that scene on the subway and then in the alley - mesmerizing.

"You know you wanna dance."

"It wouldn't be you Spike, it would never be you."

"You're beneath me."

The scenes right after that with Harmony - Mercedes is wonderful in it - "Think, Spike!" and then, with Buffy talking to her mom about the tumor, so beautifully connected to what came before - "that nothing I've been dealing with? It might not be nothing." ("You're nothing to me William. You're beneath me.)

"Every Slayer has a death wish." Death, showing up in person, in Joyce's backyard. Then the killer ending, where Spike brings comfort, not death.

It's too much - I love this ep to pieces. I wrote pages about it, yet left out a million things, because it's endlessly complex - so beautifully done - the Riley parts blending in so perfectly as well. "Who's the man?" asks Dawn - and our guys in the ep, all trying to answer that question. Though for this ep, and in other contexts still to come, the answer is: Spike, baby. Spike's the man. (A short, annoying man).

Eetah to this. I wonder if that's why we're having trouble making pages and pages of thr discussion. Because we've talked about it so much already and there's so much there we don't know where to begin.

[Spaced Out Looney]

Another thing I wanted to point out:

Riley blows up the vampires crypt with a grenade, supposedly killing them all.

However, in Lullaby (?), Angel sets off a grenade to escape from Holtz and even though it goes off close to him (Angel), it does nothing more than blow him through the elevator door. It does not cause him to explode into tiny bits.

So, if we aren't to conclude that this is an incidence of discontinuity, then Riley's blowing up the crypt was completely ineffective, and only served as a way of expressing his frustrations.

[Spaced Out Looney]

ehills said:

So, to start things off, there is something I've always wondered about this episode that some one maybe be able to comment on...

The Spike/Chinese Slayer fight and then the Spike/Dru sex takes place in a Buddhist temple. I think there's got to be symbolism there, because why not just place that scene in some random alley. But my knowledge of Buddhism is kind of slim, so what is being said here?

Oddly enough, I just watched a Japanese film for class yesterday that depicted a rape taking place inside a Buddhist temple (in Japan, not China, but still). In our class discussion, we talked about the idea of the Buddha being forced to watch these events and the immense disrespect to the temple. The setting made the events more horrific.

So some of the same ideas might apply to FFL as well, although 1) Spike was never much about religion, Angel was more the one to be "mocking God," and 2) the flashback is from Spike's perspective, and to him this was "the best night of his life." He killed the enemy and got the girl. A major triumph, not a travesty. I got nothing.