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Post by Sue on May 24, 2010 9:32:45 GMT -5
Don't know what others will think but I liked it. I love a happy ending. It's like re-writing Romeo and Juliet to see them in heaven together. It's like the end of the Tolkien trilogy -- Aragorn gets elf-lady; Faramir gets horse-lady; Sam gets Rosie; bittersweet for Frodo, but he gets to go "over the sea." It's like the end of the Narnia books -- The Last Battle -- where they are all in the train accident but then they are in Narnia and going "further up and further in" and they find all their loved ones. I LOVE a happy, sappy ending. It wasn't exactly Christian imagery because, duh, no Jesus figure. I don't think everything about the island was ever explained (take out the plug, oh bad idea, put the plug back in) -- who knows how long Hurley actually lived on the island with only Benry for company. But nice imagery at the end. And Happy HAPPY HAPPY! endings all around for everybody. I was a mess every 15 minutes as people got their memories back. So maybe the island was just a metaphor for life: there is good; there is evil; there is the unknown and the unexplained and the good decisions and the bad decisions but through it all are the relationships, both friendships and love-ships, that carry us through and survive and sustain us. Not a bad message. Given what they had to live up to, my personal opinion is that it was great! I may never rewatch the ep, but if it were a book I'd definitely re-read it. Agree totally! Isn't a happy ending what we all want? It's like this place, in a small way. We got each other - we've kind of taken each other into our lives so as to help and support us while we muddle through to our ultimate happy ending. I can see you all there at my happy ending, along with the rest of my peeps. So totally cool. And the island mystery - the light that needed to be protected? Yah. That works. But the part I liked the best out of all the amazing parts (Charlie and Claire/Aaron, Juliet/Sawyer, Kate/Jack, Shannon/Sayid (yeah baby - cutie pie Boone - he's amazing on Vampire Diaries, btw) - I LOVED the fact that Vincent both accompanied Jack when he started his journey and stayed with him at the end. I couldn't stop crying. Dog/goD? Anyway. Whoa. Good myth. I know there were unanswered questions (if I get time tomorrow I'll post some random thoughts on that) but by the time we got to the very very end I didn't care because I was so drugged out on the euphoria of all the reunions. It wasn't just that there were happy endings, but the (seriously) genius of having them be living lives (more thoughts on AU too) obliviously and then having the memories of their LOVED one return made it even more intense. Man, they almost all really did find "true love" on the island didn't they?
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Post by Karen on May 24, 2010 11:40:28 GMT -5
"I don't believe in a lot of things. But I do believe in duct tape." Hell, yeah! "We're gettin' off the ground while there's still ground to get off of." Dive, dive, dive! It's the Mystical Vending Machine of Importantness.JULIET! SAWYER! NOW GO FOR COFFEE, YOU TWO CRAZY KIDS! Memories . . . light the darkened vending machine area . . . doomed island-colored memories . . . of the way we blew things up last season . . . The vending machine reboot? Much like the bomb reboot on the island. Awesome way to segue into Sawyer/Julia memories. God, I am going to miss this frustrating, detailed show. I am thinking way too much about all of this. Like the how the well with the eternal light is very similar to the light in The Neverending Story, or the Hall of Souls, the guff, in the Seventh Sign. That whole mythology of their being a source of light/goodness that gets depleted if the bad gets too bad. You could also say that about a person. The light/soul of a person gets eaten up by the bad that happens in their life unless they can find joy to replenish the light/soul. A lot of people are disappointed (my friend is totally pissed) that we didn't get a definitive explanation for the island's mysteries. Jack never did find out what the island's light was all about, but choose to protect it anyway. That's faith. We need the wonder. I think that any label/name they would put to it would take too much from the power of the island. Better to leave it unexplained so that the story can truly be 'neverending'.
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Post by Karen on May 24, 2010 11:43:15 GMT -5
Agree totally! Isn't a happy ending what we all want? It's like this place, in a small way. We got each other - we've kind of taken each other into our lives so as to help and support us while we muddle through to our ultimate happy ending. I can see you all there at my happy ending, along with the rest of my peeps. So totally cool. And the island mystery - the light that needed to be protected? Yah. That works. But the part I liked the best out of all the amazing parts (Charlie and Claire/Aaron, Juliet/Sawyer, Kate/Jack, Shannon/Sayid (yeah baby - cutie pie Boone - he's amazing on Vampire Diaries, btw) - I LOVED the fact that Vincent both accompanied Jack when he started his journey and stayed with him at the end. I couldn't stop crying. Dog/goD? Anyway. Whoa. Good myth. I know there were unanswered questions (if I get time tomorrow I'll post some random thoughts on that) but by the time we got to the very very end I didn't care because I was so drugged out on the euphoria of all the reunions. It wasn't just that there were happy endings, but the (seriously) genius of having them be living lives (more thoughts on AU too) obliviously and then having the memories of their LOVED one return made it even more intense. Man, they almost all really did find "true love" on the island didn't they?Love of self, is what they found.
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Post by Karen on May 24, 2010 13:45:16 GMT -5
"I don't believe in a lot of things. But I do believe in duct tape." Hell, yeah! best quote of the night!
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Post by Karen on May 24, 2010 13:45:49 GMT -5
Seriously. I don't care if it turns out it's all taking place in Dennis Franz's mind. Now that Juliet and Sawyer are reunited, the rest of the show has a total free freaking pass from me.
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Post by Karen on May 24, 2010 13:55:23 GMT -5
Now, this has got to be hella AMA behavior Locke has got going on. Ah, Ben, and this is.. ah, this is where they were going when they said "come with us" "I forgive you" "things to work out" "Goodbye, Ben" Maybe the church represents ascension into heaven. Again, how with the Hugo and Ben and Kate and Sawyer being alive? "I think you do with what you do best. Take care of people" "Get Desmond home" "People can't leave the island" "That's how Jacob ran things" and lots of people left under his stewardship. "Will you help me, Ben?" "I'd be honored" and wow, it's amazing how touching that is. "You were a real good number two" "and you were a great number one"*snicker* *is 12* not quite purgatory because there is no torment or suffering - //as an aside - I think real life is our purgatory.// *Sniffle* that made me cry...and then the fact that all of his peeps were together with him so that he didn't have to do it alone - move on alone....people he knew he could depend on to love him into the light....even his dad, whom he finally made peace with Soooooo totally wonderful.
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Post by Karen on May 24, 2010 13:59:29 GMT -5
Don't know what others will think but I liked it. I love a happy ending. It's like re-writing Romeo and Juliet to see them in heaven together. It's like the end of the Tolkien trilogy -- Aragorn gets elf-lady; Faramir gets horse-lady; Sam gets Rosie; bittersweet for Frodo, but he gets to go "over the sea." It's like the end of the Narnia books -- The Last Battle -- where they are all in the train accident but then they are in Narnia and going "further up and further in" and they find all their loved ones. I LOVE a happy, sappy ending. It wasn't exactly Christian imagery because, duh, no Jesus figure. I don't think everything about the island was ever explained (take out the plug, oh bad idea, put the plug back in) -- who knows how long Hurley actually lived on the island with only Benry for company. But nice imagery at the end. And Happy HAPPY HAPPY! endings all around for everybody. I was a mess every 15 minutes as people got their memories back. So maybe the island was just a metaphor for life: there is good; there is evil; there is the unknown and the unexplained and the good decisions and the bad decisions but through it all are the relationships, both friendships and love-ships, that carry us through and survive and sustain us. Not a bad message. Given what they had to live up to, my personal opinion is that it was great! I may never rewatch the ep, but if it were a book I'd definitely re-read it. I saw a bit of Jesus imagery in the wound in Jack's side and his head, and his sacrifice to save the island (the source of the light).
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Post by leftylady on May 24, 2010 17:49:36 GMT -5
AAARRGGGHH our local ABC affiliate had major transmission problems last nite leaving us totally LOST!!!!!! I'm not going to read any of your comments until I see the re-broacast since I only got the general gist /plot movement between constant freeze-up/breakup/drop out of the signal. Just wanted to say in meantime - when the light beam came on in the depths of the cavern, I was looking for the W&H pendant..... leftylady
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Post by jeff on May 24, 2010 19:53:06 GMT -5
absolutely wonderful, amazing, and this show will be truly missed. i actually got chills with the Sawyer/Juliet scene near the end. Wish they would have explained Walt but ya can't have it all. Anyone for a Hurley/Ben spinoff? lol
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Post by RAKSHA on May 24, 2010 21:32:49 GMT -5
Don't know what others will think but I liked it. I love a happy ending. It's like re-writing Romeo and Juliet to see them in heaven together. It's like the end of the Tolkien trilogy -- Aragorn gets elf-lady; Faramir gets horse-lady; Sam gets Rosie; bittersweet for Frodo, but he gets to go "over the sea." It's like the end of the Narnia books -- The Last Battle -- where they are all in the train accident but then they are in Narnia and going "further up and further in" and they find all their loved ones. I LOVE a happy, sappy ending. It wasn't exactly Christian imagery because, duh, no Jesus figure. I don't think everything about the island was ever explained (take out the plug, oh bad idea, put the plug back in) -- who knows how long Hurley actually lived on the island with only Benry for company. But nice imagery at the end. And Happy HAPPY HAPPY! endings all around for everybody. I was a mess every 15 minutes as people got their memories back. So maybe the island was just a metaphor for life: there is good; there is evil; there is the unknown and the unexplained and the good decisions and the bad decisions but through it all are the relationships, both friendships and love-ships, that carry us through and survive and sustain us. Not a bad message. Given what they had to live up to, my personal opinion is that it was great! I may never rewatch the ep, but if it were a book I'd definitely re-read it. You've got me giggling a bit as I try to imagine Jack as Frodo.
I never cared for the ending of C.S. Lewis' The Last Battle; though I loved the other Narnia books. I could have bought the Happy-Reunion-In-Pre-Heaven ending of Lost, if they hadn't set up the sideways universe as an actual place and implied that it resulted from the detonation of the bomb at the end of Season 5.
Does anyone believe, like me, that Hurley and Ben aren't alone on the Island; that there are still a few Others/Lostaways there as well as Bernard and Rose (and Vincent! . Did they show that the stewardess and the two kids were definately dead? I didn't think so...
I wonder what poor Richard's gonna do in the modern world, especially now that he's mortal.
And I still wonder why Jack was able to pass on the mantle of Island Protector to Hurley while (I think) the Island was shutting down?
And I'm really annoyed that there was no follow-up on Walt. He was a key member of the group for the first season, a dramatic focal point in the second season, and he doesn't even get to appear in the Heaven scene?
I'm just glad that we got to see Vincent again .
Gail
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Post by Laura on May 24, 2010 22:21:57 GMT -5
I don't know -- the part of me that cries at Hallmark commercials got all weepy as all the separated lovers found each other again, and as everyone was greeting Jack in the church.
On the other hand, my evil, cynical snarky part really, really, really wishes that Cuse/Lindelof hadn't wasted so much damn time in past seasons bringing in extraneous characters and plot twists, and instead had focused on bringing the entire, original mythology to a complete close. Once I get past the "I love a happy ending" part, I just feel disappointed/manipulated/cheated at the ending.
One last thing -- when Jack and Kate were saying their final "I love you's" on the island -- anyone else half expect Jack to say to Kate, "No, you don't. But thanks for saying it" ??
Ciao, tutti.[/color]
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Post by leftylady on May 25, 2010 17:28:46 GMT -5
still haven't seen the re-broadcast and therefore haven't ready anyone's comments yet. But..... I wanted to add: I recall in discussions of Season 1 and speculation of what the Island represented, I mentioned the movie - Jacob's Ladder - at end the GI in Vietnam climbs stairs and moves to light out of the somewhat distorted version of his world back home he "returned" to after being "wounded" in battle but in fact had died. I was right if not about the Island but about the Sideways World we didn't get to see until Season 6..... leftylady
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Post by Sue on May 25, 2010 20:08:48 GMT -5
AAARRGGGHH our local ABC affiliate had major transmission problems last nite leaving us totally LOST!!!!!! I'm not going to read any of your comments until I see the re-broacast since I only got the general gist /plot movement between constant freeze-up/breakup/drop out of the signal. Just wanted to say in meantime - when the light beam came on in the depths of the cavern, I was looking for the W&H pendant..... leftylady So you know they are showing it again on Saturday, yes?
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 26, 2010 9:13:23 GMT -5
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Post by dr76 on May 26, 2010 10:46:41 GMT -5
”The End” was not bad as far as finales go. There seemed to be plenty of action, poignant moments and excellent acting. I even found myself crying during scenes in the Sideways dimension like Sawyer and Juliet Burke’s reunion, along with the reunion between Sayid Jarrah and Shannon Rutherford. And at first, I even found myself about to cry when many of the Oceanic Flight 815 passengers had their afterlife reunion in that church. But when I realized that certain characters were missing in that scene, my tears ceased. Rather fast.
Where was Michael Dawson and his son, Walt Lloyd? According to the episode, (6.12) “Everybody Loves Hugo”, Michael’s soul is stuck on the island, because he thought he was in Purgatory for his actions. Unfortunately, producers Damon Lindehof and Carlton Cuse have made it clear that the island was not Purgatory. According to Wikipedia site, Michael’s soul remained stuck on the island, because he had died there. So had Boone Carlyle, Shannon Rutherford, Juliet Burke, Ana-Lucia Cortez, Libby Smith, Mr. Eko, Charlie Pace and even the series lead, Jack Shephard. Sayid Jarrah, Jin Kwon and Sun Paik had died aboard Charles Widmore’s submarine, not far from the island. Hell, they were a lot closer to the island than Michael was, when he was killed aboard the freighter, the S.S. Kahana. Yet, all of them, aside from Mr. Eko, were seen that church in the afterlife. There was no sign of Michael. Some fans claimed that Michael was being punished for murdering Ana-Lucia Cortez and Libby Smith. But Charlie, Sawyer, Kate, Juliet, Sayid, Mr. Eko have all been guilty of murder. Both Shannon and Jack were guilty of attempted murder. Why were they not punished? Sun, Jin, Sayid and Hurley have all forgiven Michael. Why was he still being punished? Some fans claimed that Michael had not moved on. ”There’s No Place Like Home” claimed otherwise. And where was Walt? Some fans claimed that the actor who had portrayed him, Malcolm David Kelley, was too old and too tall to portray him. In the afterlife church? Why not? They were in the fucking afterlife! There was no need for Walt to look like the same 10 year-old that he was during the series’ first season.
And where were Ana-Lucia Cortez and Mr. Eko? Why were they not in that church scene? Both had made connections with the other Losties. They had certainly made connections with Bernard Nadler and Libby, who were in that final scene? What happened to them? Fans of ”LOST” know that Mr. Eko was killed by the Man In Black aka the Smoke Monster in (3.05) “The Cost of Living”. Why? Apparently, Mr. Eko failed to express any remorse for his more questionable actions. This made no sense to me, considering that Eko had expressed remorse and guilt over the death of his brother, Yemi. He had also expressed remorse for killing two of the Others during the castaways’ first night on the island, when the Others tried to kidnapped. I believe that Cuse and Lindehof needed a quick excuse to kill Eko, because the actor portraying him - Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje – had asked to be written off the show in order to deal with his parents’ deaths. Ana-Lucia experienced two epiphanies about herself in Season Two. In (2.16) “The Whole Truth”, she said the following to Sayid Jarrah before apologizing to him for accidentally killing Shannon Rutherford:
”Yeah, I can't sleep. People don't like me. I tried to get them to most of my life. I guess I just gave up a while back. I mean, I am what I am. But you -- you've got a good reason to hate me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for what I did.”
Sayid eventually forgave her. But he never forgave the Others for harassing Ana-Lucia and the surviving Tail Section passengers. And in (2.20) “Two For the Road”, Ben tried to escape by killing Ana-Lucia. Locke came to her rescue. Then Ana set out to retaliate by killing Ben herself. She even went as far as to seduce Sawyer – the Lostaways’ “sheriff” in order to acquire a pistol. In the end, Ana-Lucia realized that she had enough of indulging in her penchant for vindictive behavior:
”He tried to kill me today, so I wanted him dead. I couldn't do it. I couldn't even kill him. I looked at him and he -- I can't do this anymore.”
This is more than some of the other regular characters have ever achieved as far as development goes – and that includes Charlie, Sawyer, Locke and Shannon. At least Charlie had sacrificed himself to warn his fellow castaways about the threat from the S.S. Kahuna. And Shannon received some kind of reassurance from Sayid that she was not worthless. But Locke was in a state of despair when Ben murdered him in (5.07) "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham". And Sawyer has never acknowledged any of his mistakes or personal flaws. And yet, viewers were led to believe that these two were ready for the afterlife inside that church. But according to Sideways Desmond in (6.16) “What They Died For”, Ana-Lucia “was not ready”. The two producers gave a reason why:
Lindelof: Well, all we can say is that in "Happily Ever After," when Desmond confronted Eloise Hawking and he wanted to know why she wouldn't reveal to him why Penny's name was on this guest list, she said to him that he should stop asking these questions, because he wasn't ready. So that was the other time we heard that word. Ready for what exactly...?
Cuse: It's meant to be an intriguing clue that you are right to be pondering.
In other words, they really had no clear reason why Ana-Lucia was not ready to get over her baggage. They had ignored her epiphanies in episodes like ”The Whole Truth” and ”Two For the Road” FOR NOTHING. The ironic thing about this whole matter is that Ana-Lucia, Mr. Eko and Michael were all condemned in the afterlife, either because of their crimes or in the case of Ana-Lucia, her unpopularity with the fans. Other ”LOST” characters who were flawed or had committed terrible crimes managed to evade this fate. Apparently, Cuse and Lindehof were never really interested in allowing the major characters to face the consequences of their flaws or crimes – unless said character failed to live up to the image of the ideal female or were black men.
I never understood how the Man in Black became a mortal in "The End". How was that possible? He never took possession of John Locke's body, following the return of the latter to the island. His essence only assumed the dead man's form. The discovery of the real Locke's body in (5.16-5.17) "The Incident" made that perfectly clear. There was no way he should have become mortal in Locke's form, when Jack and Desmond uncorked the island's energy (or whatever the hell it was). I suspect this particular plot arc may have been an example of contrived writing in order to extend the finale's running time.
I have always liked the character of Miles. I have also enjoyed actor Ken Leung’s acting style. But looking back on Miles’ character arc, I realized that Cuse, Lindehof and their staff of writers have never really done anything with him, since his debut in (4.02) “Confirmed Dead”. His ability to sense and communicate with the dead could have allowed the writers to use him as a means for Claire to remember how she had left Aaron behind in ”Something Nice Back Home”. But this potential use for Miles’ character was never utilized. It is a miracle that he had survived long enough to finally leave the island in the finale. Considering that he had managed to form close ties with both Sawyer and Hurley, I never understood why his character did not appear in that final church scene in the afterlife.
Why was Penny in that church scene in ”The End”? She had no close ties with any of the Losties, aside from Desmond. Yet, she was there . . . and Nadia Jazeem, who was the love of Sayid Jarrah’s life, was not. Why?
In the end, I guess I can say that I had enjoyed the six seasons of ”LOST”. Do I consider it to be a cultural phenomenon? Of course. Regardless of my personal opinion of the series, I cannot deny that. Was it a good television series? Yes. It basically an interesting series with an original premise and a cast of talented actors. Would I consider it an outstanding series . . . or view it as one of the best series in television series? No. Not on your life. Despite its virtues, ”LOST” has too many flaws. There is not a single television series I would consider flawless. But as I had previously stated, ”LOST” has too many flaws for me to ever consider it as great. The next time Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindehof decide to create a television series with continuing story lines, I would suggest that they acquire a few lessons from the likes of J. Michael Straczynski, Joss Whedon and Matthew Weiner on how to create and write such a series. They truly need those lessons.
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