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Post by Lissa on Aug 5, 2004 4:09:16 GMT -5
Wow, Julia. I think you're on to something here. The Giles we saw in Season 7 was NOT the Giles we knew & loved. The PTSS explanation makes perfect sense to me. Very, very nice explanation. I always thought, still do by the way, that Giles never had the heart to tell Buffy to do what really needed to be done and in S7 it suddenly came all out of it, triggered by Wood's smooth words. Whenever Giles had to say something harsh to Buffy he always had found an excuse. Killing Angel he brought up Jenny as an excuse. And not being able to tell Buffy that an innocent needed to be killed in S5. |
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Post by Lola m on Aug 21, 2005 18:44:22 GMT -5
Calling all Joss fans!!! We know what you want, what you love, what you need!
Angst mixed with laugh-in-the-face-of-apocalypse wittiness – character development and continuity – redemption and powerful journeys and never letting us forget what’s really important. In other words, stories with arc! Arc, I tell you, arc!
Welcome to Week 8 of the Sizzlin’  Buffy Episode Festival and the third most requested show! The Gift   Then the last thing she'll see is me protecting her. Here to help. Want to live. Buffy: I'm counting on you. To protect her. Spike: 'Til the end of the world -- even if that happens to be tonight. I'll always find you... And the glorified brick-layer picks up a spare ... She's a hero, you see. She's not like us. Buffy, you have to let me go! Dawn, the hardest thing in this world is to live in it. Be brave. Live. For me. * * * * * * * *
Time to rewatch your tapes or DVDs or downloads. Time to get out the kleenix and be ready for the adrenalin rush. Time to watch some of most powerful TV you’ll ever see.[/b][/size] And don’t forget . . .
Spring’s most excellent Spikecentricity analysis for The Gift is here:
www.soulfulspike.com/indexholder.htm
(click on Spikecentricity, then scroll down to season 5 and click on the episode title)
The discussion of her analysis is here:
scubiefan.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=analyses&action=display&thread=1111417486&page=1
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Post by Onjel on Aug 21, 2005 20:38:48 GMT -5
Calling all Joss fans!!! We know what you want, what you love, what you need!
Angst mixed with laugh-in-the-face-of-apocalypse wittiness – character development and continuity – redemption and powerful journeys and never letting us forget what’s really important. In other words, stories with arc! Arc, I tell you, arc!
Welcome to Week 8 of the Sizzlin’ Buffy Episode Festival and the third most requested show! The Gift Then the last thing she'll see is me protecting her. Here to help. Want to live. Buffy: I'm counting on you. To protect her. Spike: 'Til the end of the world -- even if that happens to be tonight. I'll always find you... And the glorified brick-layer picks up a spare ... She's a hero, you see. She's not like us. Buffy, you have to let me go! Dawn, the hardest thing in this world is to live in it. Be brave. Live. For me. * * * * * * * *
Time to rewatch your tapes or DVDs or downloads. Time to get out the kleenix and be ready for the adrenalin rush. Time to watch some of most powerful TV you’ll ever see. [/b][/size] And don’t forget . . .
Spring’s most excellent Spikecentricity analysis for The Gift is here:
www.soulfulspike.com/indexholder.htm
(click on Spikecentricity, then scroll down to season 5 and click on the episode title)
The discussion of her analysis is here:
scubiefan.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=analyses&action=display&thread=1111417486&page=1
[/quote] I love, love, love this episode. Every single time I see it I end up crying like a baby. The scene on the tower with the portal opening up is so beautifully done, with the music, the slow mo, everything down to the gang seeing Buffy's body broken on the ground. Just thinking about it makes me tear up.  |
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Post by KMInfinity on Aug 21, 2005 22:30:36 GMT -5
Onjel Said
This one was near the top of my list too.
And seeing Spike, specifically, in the background grieving and crying bitterly...made the point it wasn't just about Spike "wanting to do a slayer" and that he really cared for Buffy. I think I became a Spuffy fan after this ep.
More later.
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Post by Lola m on Aug 22, 2005 7:33:11 GMT -5
Onjel Said This one was near the top of my list too. And seeing Spike, specifically, in the background grieving and crying bitterly...made the point it wasn't just about Spike "wanting to do a slayer" and that he really cared for Buffy. I think I became a Spuffy fan after this ep. More later. **nods to both of you** I re-watched it last night and was so struck by the perfect feel of the whole thing. I mean sure, you could find plot holes if you try (Buffy dying will close the portal even if Dawn is still bleeding, that anyone dying is what is meant by "the blood stops flowing", the mysteriously lighter and heavier troll hammer, etc.). But when I'm watching, any of that just . . . disappears. Because the emotional truth of it all is just so right! It's one of those handful of eps that just shine - you can so clearly see all that is leading up to that moment on the tower. And later, you can see how everything is affected by Buffy's jump off of it. And so many ultimate Buffy/Spike moments! "You treat me like a man". Spike's breakdown at the sight of Buffy's body. The final shot of her headstone!! **sniff, sniff** I remember posting before how last year I was at the State Fair looking at the seed art displays and someone had done a montage of Buffy as a tribute to the show, and it included that line frm the headstone and it was just so sweet and unexpectedly moving. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 22, 2005 8:29:36 GMT -5
Onjel Said This one was near the top of my list too. And seeing Spike, specifically, in the background grieving and crying bitterly...made the point it wasn't just about Spike "wanting to do a slayer" and that he really cared for Buffy. I think I became a Spuffy fan after this ep. More later. **nods to both of you** I re-watched it last night and was so struck by the perfect feel of the whole thing. I mean sure, you could find plot holes if you try (Buffy dying will close the portal even if Dawn is still bleeding, that anyone dying is what is meant by "the blood stops flowing", the mysteriously lighter and heavier troll hammer, etc.). But when I'm watching, any of that just . . . disappears. Because the emotional truth of it all is just so right! It's one of those handful of eps that just shine - you can so clearly see all that is leading up to that moment on the tower. And later, you can see how everything is affected by Buffy's jump off of it. And so many ultimate Buffy/Spike moments! "You treat me like a man". Spike's breakdown at the sight of Buffy's body. The final shot of her headstone!! **sniff, sniff** I remember posting before how last year I was at the State Fair looking at the seed art displays and someone had done a montage of Buffy as a tribute to the show, and it included that line frm the headstone and it was just so sweet and unexpectedly moving. It's hard to add to what I already wrote in my Spikecentricity analysis (thanks for the plug in the intro, Lola) - and I'm in agreement with everyone else: Great Ep! Joss is a Master when it comes to the written word. He weaves his "circle of life" theme into every single word - but so invisibly and beautiful that you can watch the ep and it all makes sense and is very compelling even if you are totally unaware of the underlying themes. The Buffy & Spike stuff in this ep - some of the most compelling "relationship" (and not just romantic) stuff in the whole series. They think they'll likely be dead soon, so no time for defensiveness and games . . . Spike is simple and straightforward, and Buffy, when she invites him in without ceremony or fuss, and very geniunely tells him she is counting on him - she gives him his props as well. Presto - no barrier. Buffy & Dawn . . . the leap, everyone crying - but the sun coming up . . . wonderful ep all around. Though I've got to say, I don't agree at all with those who say they wish it had been the last ep of the series. It was the next two season that gave the overall picture it's true grit - really distinguished BtVS as something more than your (more or less) perfect-heroine-dies-young story. |
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Post by Rob on Aug 22, 2005 16:38:07 GMT -5
Like many of you, I own the "Once More With Feeling" soundtrack, which features Christophe Beck's theme for "The Gift" as a bonus track. I want to take a few moments to give him the credit he deserves for making these great episodes so much greater.
The emotional content of "The Gift" episode is so powerful; any false note - in this case literally - could have upset our suspension of disbelief and leave us feeling somewhat manipulated. It's very easy to take this sort of material over the top.
Beck dutifully performs his job as the hour goes along, accompanying the action with all the fire and bombast such sequences require. When it came time for the final act, however, he takes everything to another level.
Instead of fiery Wagnerian crescendos, Beck strips everything away, save a ten-note figure any of us could finger out on a piano in roughly fifteen seconds. It's as if the music is as shocked and saddened as we are by the turn of events; all the breath is taken out of the orchestra so that WE can find some room to breathe and absorb the shock.
After about thirty seconds of that, he slowly brings in other instruments as our despair begins to sink in...finally building to a majestic cry of strings as Buffy makes her leap, tapping into our pent-up emotions so we can let them flow freely. That, in itself, is manipulation of a sort, of course...but it's the sort of manipulation we fervently accept because we need it. It's what Joss means when he says music provides comfort to the audience.
The best stage and screen composers do their job by translating the ebb and flow of our own feelings and reflecting them back to us. This way we can feel free to cry or giggle or rage without feeling as if we've been taken advantage of. Music lets us be vulnerable without shame.
To this day, whenever I hear those opening quarter notes on the piano, my stomach does a little flip, and that's why I consider the last few minutes of "The Gift" to be Chris Beck's finest achievement on BTVS.
Considering his work on "Once More With Feeling," "Hush" and "Restless," that's saying something.
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Post by Onjel on Aug 22, 2005 18:28:21 GMT -5
Like many of you, I own the "Once More With Feeling" soundtrack, which features Christophe Beck's theme for "The Gift" as a bonus track. I want to take a few moments to give him the credit he deserves for making these great episodes so much greater. The emotional content of "The Gift" episode is so powerful; any false note - in this case literally - could have upset our suspension of disbelief and leave us feeling somewhat manipulated. It's very easy to take this sort of material over the top. Beck dutifully performs his job as the hour goes along, accompanying the action with all the fire and bombast such sequences require. When it came time for the final act, however, he takes everything to another level. Instead of fiery Wagnerian crescendos, Beck strips everything away, save a ten-note figure any of us could learn on a piano is about fifteen seconds. It's as if the music is as shocked and saddened as we are by the turn of events; all the breath is taken out of the orchestra so that WE can find some room to breathe and absorb the shock. After about thirty seconds of that, he slowly brings in other instruments as our despair begins to sink in...finally building to a majestic cry of strings as Buffy makes her leap, tapping into our pent-up emotions so we can let them flow freely. That, in itself, is manipulation of a sort, of course...but it's the sort of manipulation we fervently accept because we need it. It's what Joss means when he says music provides comfort to the audience. The best stage and screen composers do their job by translating the ebb and flow of our own feelings and reflecting them back to us. This way we can feel free to cry or giggle or rage without feeling as if we've been taken advantage of. Music lets us be vulnerable without shame. To this day, whenever I hear those opening quarter notes on the piano, my stomach does a little flip, and that's why I consider the last few minutes of "The Gift" to be Chris Beck's finest achievement on BTVS. Considering his work on "Once More With Feeling," "Hush" and "Restless," that's saying something. OMG!!! Yesssssssssssssssssss!!!!! I listened to it today on RadioBuffy! Everytime I hear it I get goose bumps and teary eyed. It was a beautiful piece of music, beautifully done and your description/homage said it much better than I ever could. Thank you Rob! |
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Post by Lola m on Aug 23, 2005 7:49:11 GMT -5
Like many of you, I own the "Once More With Feeling" soundtrack, which features Christophe Beck's theme for "The Gift" as a bonus track. I want to take a few moments to give him the credit he deserves for making these great episodes so much greater. The emotional content of "The Gift" episode is so powerful; any false note - in this case literally - could have upset our suspension of disbelief and leave us feeling somewhat manipulated. It's very easy to take this sort of material over the top. Beck dutifully performs his job as the hour goes along, accompanying the action with all the fire and bombast such sequences require. When it came time for the final act, however, he takes everything to another level. Instead of fiery Wagnerian crescendos, Beck strips everything away, save a ten-note figure any of us could finger out on a piano in roughly fifteen seconds. It's as if the music is as shocked and saddened as we are by the turn of events; all the breath is taken out of the orchestra so that WE can find some room to breathe and absorb the shock. After about thirty seconds of that, he slowly brings in other instruments as our despair begins to sink in...finally building to a majestic cry of strings as Buffy makes her leap, tapping into our pent-up emotions so we can let them flow freely. That, in itself, is manipulation of a sort, of course...but it's the sort of manipulation we fervently accept because we need it. It's what Joss means when he says music provides comfort to the audience. The best stage and screen composers do their job by translating the ebb and flow of our own feelings and reflecting them back to us. This way we can feel free to cry or giggle or rage without feeling as if we've been taken advantage of. Music lets us be vulnerable without shame. To this day, whenever I hear those opening quarter notes on the piano, my stomach does a little flip, and that's why I consider the last few minutes of "The Gift" to be Chris Beck's finest achievement on BTVS. Considering his work on "Once More With Feeling," "Hush" and "Restless," that's saying something. Thank you so much for this, Rob! You really helped me understand the construction of the music and how it does what it does. When you talked about how the music sort of drops away, is stripped down, right at the start of the final moments - it made me think of how the entire tower jump scene is played that way. The way we don't hear what Buffy says to Dawn right as it happens - not only so that we can hear the words later and have them really hit home more, but also so that the actual saying of them is a quiet, private moment between Buffy and Dawn. The slo-motion run and dive and then the way everything else seems to fall away as Buffy is in the portal opening. The absence of dialog as we just see the reactions of everyone around Buffy's body. Take it down to stunned quiet with a duet (Buffy and Dawn), then a single instrument (Buffy), then slowly add in the rest of the instruments (characters) in a subdued way. OK, I've obviously waaaaay over-thought this, , but hey - what else are these episode threads for if not to babble on with my pet theories and wild ideas. ;D |
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Post by Pixi on Aug 23, 2005 13:53:39 GMT -5
So I'm finally wandering over to this week's Buffy pic and for a moment there when I saw becca had posted on Fear, Itself I thought that was number 8.
And I'm on - Fear Itself made number 8? Now that's just weird.
Hee, hee.
I don't know that I can add anything insightful here. I like shows that give a "happy cry". Where you cry but it's a cleansing good cry. I didn't have that kind of cry in Not Fade Away but no matter how many times I watch this, I always have a good cry. Simply wonderfully done.
I agree that Season 6 & 7 added so much to the Buffy legend. And I would have missed all the things I gleaned from those episodes. But if it did have to end, if this had been a non-renewal year, then Joss got it right.
It was cathartic, it gave all the regulars moments in the sun and it had a marvelous climax.
I agree with the comment that Spike breaking down in the background was perfect. Far more eloquent than anything he could have said - this grief that kept him from even walking, said so much. And the final shot was simply classic.
Thanks for the wonderful analysis of the music Rob.
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Post by Lola m on Aug 23, 2005 18:54:27 GMT -5
So I'm finally wandering over to this week's Buffy pic and for a moment there when I saw becca had posted on Fear, Itself I thought that was number 8. And I'm on - Fear Itself made number 8? Now that's just weird. Hee, hee. I don't know that I can add anything insightful here. I like shows that give a "happy cry". Where you cry but it's a cleansing good cry. I didn't have that kind of cry in Not Fade Away but no matter how many times I watch this, I always have a good cry. Simply wonderfully done. I agree that Season 6 & 7 added so much to the Buffy legend. And I would have missed all the things I gleaned from those episodes. But if it did have to end, if this had been a non-renewal year, then Joss got it right. It was cathartic, it gave all the regulars moments in the sun and it had a marvelous climax. I agree with the comment that Spike breaking down in the background was perfect. Far more eloquent than anything he could have said - this grief that kept him from even walking, said so much. And the final shot was simply classic. Thanks for the wonderful analysis of the music Rob. **nods agreement with you and Spring** If it had ended here, Buffy would still have been great. This is an amazing episode and if Joss had been forced to stop here, it would have worked wonderfully. But you are also both right that seasons 6 and 7 add a whole 'nother level. It's like . . . . it's like, I guess I could compare it, in an odd way, to Sondheim's Into The Woods. Which, if you don't know that play my analogy will make no sense, yet I plug valiently onward. ;D You have a complete story in the first half. The more "traditional" side of the fairy tales. And it's wonderful. But it's a whole 'nother level when you come back for the second half and see what happens after "happily ever after". Things get messy, they get less black and white, more gray. Comprimises happen and people aren't perfect. Not perfectly good, not perfectly bad. And I love that kind of stuff. |
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Post by Pixi on Aug 24, 2005 7:30:07 GMT -5
So I'm finally wandering over to this week's Buffy pic and for a moment there when I saw becca had posted on Fear, Itself I thought that was number 8. And I'm on - Fear Itself made number 8? Now that's just weird. Hee, hee. I don't know that I can add anything insightful here. I like shows that give a "happy cry". Where you cry but it's a cleansing good cry. I didn't have that kind of cry in Not Fade Away but no matter how many times I watch this, I always have a good cry. Simply wonderfully done. I agree that Season 6 & 7 added so much to the Buffy legend. And I would have missed all the things I gleaned from those episodes. But if it did have to end, if this had been a non-renewal year, then Joss got it right. It was cathartic, it gave all the regulars moments in the sun and it had a marvelous climax. I agree with the comment that Spike breaking down in the background was perfect. Far more eloquent than anything he could have said - this grief that kept him from even walking, said so much. And the final shot was simply classic. Thanks for the wonderful analysis of the music Rob. **nods agreement with you and Spring** If it had ended here, Buffy would still have been great. This is an amazing episode and if Joss had been forced to stop here, it would have worked wonderfully. But you are also both right that seasons 6 and 7 add a whole 'nother level. It's like . . . . it's like, I guess I could compare it, in an odd way, to Sondheim's Into The Woods. Which, if you don't know that play my analogy will make no sense, yet I plug valiently onward. ;D You have a complete story in the first half. The more "traditional" side of the fairy tales. And it's wonderful. But it's a whole 'nother level when you come back for the second half and see what happens after "happily ever after". Things get messy, they get less black and white, more gray. Comprimises happen and people aren't perfect. Not perfectly good, not perfectly bad. And I love that kind of stuff. Squeeeee!!! You used Into the Woods! I love Into the Woods! I've used many songs from that show - in fact it was one of the numbers that went to Access Broadway this year. Great analogy Lola. That is exactly what season 6 & 7 are! |
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Post by Lola m on Aug 24, 2005 16:36:26 GMT -5
**nods agreement with you and Spring** If it had ended here, Buffy would still have been great. This is an amazing episode and if Joss had been forced to stop here, it would have worked wonderfully. But you are also both right that seasons 6 and 7 add a whole 'nother level. It's like . . . . it's like, I guess I could compare it, in an odd way, to Sondheim's Into The Woods. Which, if you don't know that play my analogy will make no sense, yet I plug valiently onward. ;D You have a complete story in the first half. The more "traditional" side of the fairy tales. And it's wonderful. But it's a whole 'nother level when you come back for the second half and see what happens after "happily ever after". Things get messy, they get less black and white, more gray. Comprimises happen and people aren't perfect. Not perfectly good, not perfectly bad. And I love that kind of stuff. Squeeeee!!! You used Into the Woods! I love Into the Woods! I've used many songs from that show - in fact it was one of the numbers that went to Access Broadway this year. Great analogy Lola. That is exactly what season 6 & 7 are! ;D Well, that was just one example that came to mind. I really do love stories and characters that are complex and layered and real. So, the Jossverse is a perfect place for me. |
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Post by Linda on Aug 28, 2005 7:06:33 GMT -5
Hi all! I, too, love this episode. So much beauty and pain. So much set-up for Season Six -- with nekkid Spike even more beauty and pain. *sigh* Thank you, Rob for your post about Christophe Beck's music. Eetah! And since I am confident that all of you understand that my love for this series and this episode and the rich characterization of Spike is not at all based on shallow trivialities, I will risk posting these:   I never really noticed until now (since I usually watch the final scene through blurry eyes) that Spike is so very William here. Unconflicted. Almost innocent. Re-born? The contrast with night-Spike is so sharp. JM is amazing. And pretty. Linda, just thought I'd share the pretty, as my brain is distinctly non-analytical after watching today. P.S. Eetah with Lola and Pixi about Into The Woods! Though I've never seen it live -- just watched the PBS special and got the soundtrack. I remember admiring Bernadette Peters for singing her part without stumbling. Hee! Arugula! |
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Post by Onjel on Aug 28, 2005 9:36:38 GMT -5
Hi all! I, too, love this episode. So much beauty and pain. So much set-up for Season Six -- with nekkid Spike even more beauty and pain. *sigh* Thank you, Rob for your post about Christophe Beck's music. Eetah! And since I am confident that all of you understand that my love for this series and this episode and the rich characterization of Spike is not at all based on shallow trivialities, I will risk posting these: I never really noticed until now (since I usually watch the final scene through blurry eyes) that Spike is so very William here. Unconflicted. Almost innocent. Re-born? The contrast with night-Spike is so sharp. JM is amazing. And pretty. Linda, just thought I'd share the pretty, as my brain is distinctly non-analytical after watching today. P.S. Eetah with Lola and Pixi about Into The Woods! Though I've never seen it live -- just watched the PBS special and got the soundtrack. I remember admiring Bernadette Peters for singing her part without stumbling. Hee! Arugula! OMG yes! How that man can be beautiful with blood running down the side of his face is a wonder. *sigh* But, you are right, he is very William here. Innocent and unconflicted. |
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