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Post by Techno-bot on Jun 12, 2004 22:34:24 GMT -5
written by Marti Noxon
Directed by David Grossman
Air Date: 10/2/01
As Giles prepares for his return to England, the gang secretly prepares to resurrect Buffy with a magic spell. But a group of demons interrupts Willow before she can finish the spell - causing Buffy to return to life still buried in her close coffin.
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Post by Barb on Jun 12, 2004 23:37:35 GMT -5
So....why didn't anyone think to bring a shovel to Buffy's grave? Or better yet, why not dig down to her coffin, THEN perform that ritual? Is it possible that they didn't really think it would work?
Why did Tara back down this time about resurrection? Did she really think things were any different than with Buffy's mom? She even said it was wrong. Did she fear Willow's wrath?
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Post by Onjel on Jun 29, 2004 13:30:02 GMT -5
Wasn't the deal with Buffy's mom that she died a natural human death and Buffy died from mystical causes? I seem to remember that making a difference, from what Osiris said to Willow after Tara was shot. Maybe that was something Tara knew and that was why she was so adamant about Buffy's mom not being resurrected. Also, I read an interesting essay on another site regarding the taint to the relationships between Buffy/Spike and Willow/Tara, with Buffy and Willow being described as the abusive mates, taking what they want with no regard to their partners' feelings. Using their power to overcome their partners' occasional reluctance.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 11, 2005 16:39:28 GMT -5
So....why didn't anyone think to bring a shovel to Buffy's grave? Or better yet, why not dig down to her coffin, THEN perform that ritual? Is it possible that they didn't really think it would work? Since Xander mentions it when the gang sees the newly resurrected Buffy, I think them not even bringing shovels to the resurrection ritual is supposed to show how much the gang didn't think through what they were doing, they were just so focused on bringing Buffy back. Sort of sets the tone for the season. Its interesting that her viewpoint is different here than in Forever, and I think its open to speculation why, but I personally suspect that Willow was manipulating her mind some how and that the forgetting spell in As You Were was not the first of its kind. |
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Post by Lola m on Jan 11, 2005 20:23:17 GMT -5
Since Xander mentions it when the gang sees the newly resurrected Buffy, I think them not even bringing shovels to the resurrection ritual is supposed to show how much the gang didn't think through what they were doing, they were just so focused on bringing Buffy back. Sort of sets the tone for the season. That would make sense. Also, there appear to be differences in various ressurection spells, as the one that would have brought Joyce back looked like it drew her out of the grave on her own and bring her to the person doing the spell. So, they don't seem to have really looked at all the details of how this particular spell was going to work. Not a very good idea. Plus, I always wondered why they didn't do some kind of, not locator spell, but . . . I don't know - contacting of Buffy's spirit. To find out what was really going on with her before they did it. I put that down to Willow wanting to do the spell regardless. Being so despirate to do something and wanting the rush and importance of pulling off this particular difficult spell. Well, I think that Onjel is right and that she really was thinking that the supernatural aspect of Buffy's death made it acceptable. But I do think she was influenced by Willow. In my opinion, not by a spell, but just by old fashioned "I love you and want to believe you and trust you" manipulation. Lola |
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 11, 2005 21:26:28 GMT -5
Well, I think that Onjel is right and that she really was thinking that the supernatural aspect of Buffy's death made it acceptable. But I do think she was influenced by Willow. In my opinion, not by a spell, but just by old fashioned "I love you and want to believe you and trust you" manipulation. Lola Yeah, you're probably right. I just have a sneaking suspicion that Willow was manipulating her based on the strong implication that All The Way was not the first time Willow used the forgetting spell (the flower was out on her dresser and all, she had a lot of it stashed) and Tara's illogical argument "It is wrong. It's against all the laws of nature, and practically impossible to do, but it's what we agreed to." May or may not be the case. Could be just good old-fashioned "If you love me you'll agree with me." |
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Post by Lola m on Apr 28, 2009 20:18:59 GMT -5
So, interesting points I happened to notice . . . * In the first scene, I've thought before that it is nice foreshadowing that Willow is shown as powerful and placed "above" the rest of the gang. But I'm not sure it really clicked with me what that really means as far as the relationship between her and Giles. He is shown as just another one of the grunts on the ground, not in charge of any part of this skirmish. * I've tended to think it as fanon that Spike was all friendly/buddy with the gang before Buffy came back. But in that first scene? He is. He really is. Also? He's really really pretty. I mean, damn! * I wonder why they have the Buffybot living with them in regular times, risking her answering phones and so on, not turned off? Just because it would seem ooky to keep shutting her off? Because they want her accumulating experiences so that she seems more real to everyone? Or . . . ? * Giles & Anya slap-fight? Never not funny! ;D Huh. And when Xander says "what kind of gratitude is that?" to Anya - he really means it, doesn't he? He the one of them that really works out in the real world, understands when one should be grateful about work opportunities. * OMG! Spike on the couch, talking to Dawn? So. Pretty. Also, he really isn't bored when he's with her. Angry or annoyed, sometimes, yes. Protective and fond, yes. * Vamp with a Hanson shirt. Still can't get over how eye-rolly that is.  ;D * Can I have the amazingly fab and huge curved windows in Xander's apartment? Can I? |
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Post by Squeemonster on Apr 28, 2009 20:31:33 GMT -5
Just a couple of notes I jotted while watching (and I can't remember where Parts 1 & 2 split, so hopefully I'm not putting stuff from Part 2 in Part 1 and vice versa  ): --The humor! Somehow I had forgotten how funny BtVS really is. --So painful--breakfast in the kitchen with the Buffybot--Dawnie and everyone miss Buffy so much. --They really did think they were saving Buffy from badness. I wonder if they knew then that she was in heaven if they'd still bring her back. --I love Anya. And I love how she loves monkeys. ;D |
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Post by Lola m on Apr 28, 2009 20:50:26 GMT -5
* Why do you guys think that Giles and Spike and Dawn are the ones who can't know about the plan, really? All Willow says is they "wouldn't understand", but is it just 'cuz they are the only ones who might stop her? I mean, I think Willow does think she knows why she wants to do the spell, but I also think she is deceiving herself a bit. * OK, James is awesome in the scene with the 'Bot and Willow - you can actually see him freeze when she says the thing his washboard abs and the way his voice goes all . . . still and intense. But also? Look at his ass when the camera is focusing on Willow sitting opposite the 'bot and he's just on the edge of the screen. Damn. I mean, Damn!! * Willow, Willow, Willow. So determined to make everything "good as new".  'Bot on Buffy's bed, in her "sleep" clothes, plugged in and still, with Danw curling up next to her? * The 'Bot isn't as good a fighter as Buffy. She telegraphs her punches too much. I'm not surprised that Hanson!vamp was able to get to her. * The scene with the deer is creepy because of how Willow acts, now she is looking around for others and so on, more so than what she is actually doing. * Heee! Tara's grrr argggh. ;D Giles saying goodbye at airport.  * The spell is basically one long session of begging, isn't it? At what point was it enough, I wonder? Before the urn was smashed? After? |
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Apr 28, 2009 21:29:32 GMT -5
For excellent slash alternatives to Bargaining Pt. 1 &2 (and beyond) Mad Poetess and James Walkswithwind's Paving Stones series (Spike/Giles, porny) Crazy Diamond Sue's Sunday Morning Coming Down (Spike/Xander romance and sex) The teaser to Bargaining part 1, and the scenes with Spike babysitting Dawn, are some of my favorite writing/acting in the series. The teaser sets up the whole backstory of the series in a fast five minutes, with full characterization for all the characters. It is really all about Willow, though, as she wrangles her way to doing the forbidden spell. Julia, rather fond of early s6 Spike. Julia, just if you're left with slash cravings. |
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Apr 28, 2009 21:37:54 GMT -5
* Why do you guys think that Giles and Spike and Dawn are the ones who can't know about the plan, really? All Willow says is they "wouldn't understand", but is it just 'cuz they are the only ones who might stop her? I mean, I think Willow does think she knows why she wants to do the spell, but I also think she is deceiving herself a bit. * OK, James is awesome in the scene with the 'Bot and Willow - you can actually see him freeze when she says the thing his washboard abs and the way his voice goes all . . . still and intense. But also? Look at his ass when the camera is focusing on Willow sitting opposite the 'bot and he's just on the edge of the screen. Damn. I mean, Damn!! * Willow, Willow, Willow. So determined to make everything "good as new". 'Bot on Buffy's bed, in her "sleep" clothes, plugged in and still, with Danw curling up next to her? * The 'Bot isn't as good a fighter as Buffy. She telegraphs her punches too much. I'm not surprised that Hanson!vamp was able to get to her. * The scene with the deer is creepy because of how Willow acts, now she is looking around for others and so on, more so than what she is actually doing. * Heee! Tara's grrr argggh. ;D Giles saying goodbye at airport. * The spell is basically one long session of begging, isn't it? At what point was it enough, I wonder? Before the urn was smashed? After? Giles would stop them for mystical reasons, Spike would stop them for practical ones, and Dawn- who did the spell to raise Joyce- would be completely freaked by the possiblility of Zombie-Buffy, I think. Willow isn't yet able to fight Giles's authority, or risk his disapproval. Xander and Anya's support is too tenuous to risk Spike putting voice to their doubts, and Tara would almost certainly side with Dawn; Willow puts it in terms of avoiding hurting them, or raising false hope, but I think she knows just how uncertain everyone else is, and how easily the people she needs to help her would be dissuaded. Julia, she's not at the peak of her hubris, or her self-deception, but she's pretty damned manipulative. |
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Post by Lola m on Apr 28, 2009 21:46:26 GMT -5
Oh, Sunday Morning is an excellent story! Good rec! **nods vigorously to this** Mmmm. Slash.  |
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Post by Lola m on Apr 28, 2009 21:50:11 GMT -5
Just a couple of notes I jotted while watching (and I can't remember where Parts 1 & 2 split, so hopefully I'm not putting stuff from Part 2 in Part 1 and vice versa ): --The humor! Somehow I had forgotten how funny BtVS really is. God, yes! Something I really miss in other fave shows. BSG, for example, is an excellent drama, but sometimes lacking in the funny. Oh, the painful results of such misplaced good intentions. I like to think if they had known, they wouldn't have. And yet . . . I have some doubts if this would have completely stopped Willow. She was so sunk into her own feelings of loss and guilt. Monkeys! On skates or otherwise! |
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Post by Lola m on Apr 28, 2009 21:51:40 GMT -5
* Why do you guys think that Giles and Spike and Dawn are the ones who can't know about the plan, really? All Willow says is they "wouldn't understand", but is it just 'cuz they are the only ones who might stop her? I mean, I think Willow does think she knows why she wants to do the spell, but I also think she is deceiving herself a bit. * OK, James is awesome in the scene with the 'Bot and Willow - you can actually see him freeze when she says the thing his washboard abs and the way his voice goes all . . . still and intense. But also? Look at his ass when the camera is focusing on Willow sitting opposite the 'bot and he's just on the edge of the screen. Damn. I mean, Damn!! * Willow, Willow, Willow. So determined to make everything "good as new". 'Bot on Buffy's bed, in her "sleep" clothes, plugged in and still, with Danw curling up next to her? * The 'Bot isn't as good a fighter as Buffy. She telegraphs her punches too much. I'm not surprised that Hanson!vamp was able to get to her. * The scene with the deer is creepy because of how Willow acts, now she is looking around for others and so on, more so than what she is actually doing. * Heee! Tara's grrr argggh. ;D Giles saying goodbye at airport. * The spell is basically one long session of begging, isn't it? At what point was it enough, I wonder? Before the urn was smashed? After? Giles would stop them for mystical reasons, Spike would stop them for practical ones, and Dawn- who did the spell to raise Joyce- would be completely freaked by the possiblility of Zombie-Buffy, I think. Willow isn't yet able to fight Giles's authority, or risk his disapproval. Xander and Anya's support is too tenuous to risk Spike putting voice to their doubts, and Tara would almost certainly side with Dawn; Willow puts it in terms of avoiding hurting them, or raising false hope, but I think she knows just how uncertain everyone else is, and how easily the people she needs to help her would be dissuaded. Julia, she's not at the peak of her hubris, or her self-deception, but she's pretty damned manipulative. Nicely put. I hadn't thought about how Tara would be on Dawn's side. |
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Apr 28, 2009 22:01:55 GMT -5
Giles would stop them for mystical reasons, Spike would stop them for practical ones, and Dawn- who did the spell to raise Joyce- would be completely freaked by the possiblility of Zombie-Buffy, I think. Willow isn't yet able to fight Giles's authority, or risk his disapproval. Xander and Anya's support is too tenuous to risk Spike putting voice to their doubts, and Tara would almost certainly side with Dawn; Willow puts it in terms of avoiding hurting them, or raising false hope, but I think she knows just how uncertain everyone else is, and how easily the people she needs to help her would be dissuaded. Julia, she's not at the peak of her hubris, or her self-deception, but she's pretty damned manipulative. Nicely put. I hadn't thought about how Tara would be on Dawn's side. Spike is the only one more protective of Dawn, and he doesn't have any conflict of interest; Tara has to deal with Willow's complicated relationship with Dawn, dating back to "Spiral." The only thing that makes me feel any sympathy at all for Willow in early s6 is the glimpse we get of her mother in "Gingerbread." She hasn't been given a lot of chances to learn how to make decisions by making them and failing. Julia, and boy does it show. |
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'Bot on Buffy's bed, in her "sleep" clothes, plugged in and still, with Danw curling up next to her? 
