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Post by SpringSummers on May 25, 2009 18:08:19 GMT -5
I feel really guilty about not participating in this so far, especially because I asked for it! But I posted before about how the Season 6 & 7 Spike angstiness influenced me a lot in the weeks leading up to my separation and I've found myself avoiding it like a trip to the dentist. I think I'm dreading both the Spike pain and my own personal memories of one of the worst periods of my life. But enough whining. I finally sucked it up and started Bargaining tonight. Won't be able to post yet because my laptop power cord went out, but I should have a new one by Tuesday and then I hope to be a loudmouth schnook in these threads. But, my oh my, is Spike not a sparkly, pretty fellow? Swoon. Glad you've joined us, but don't feel obligated lmf. If you get to feeling too raw now and then to comment, don't worry about it. Hope you are doing OK with the moving forward.
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Post by luvmyfirefly on May 27, 2009 21:23:28 GMT -5
* I've tended to think it as fanon that Spike was all friendly/buddy with the gang before Buffy came back. But in that first scene? He is. He really is. Also? He's really really pretty. I mean, damn! * OMG! Spike on the couch, talking to Dawn? So. Pretty. Also, he really isn't bored when he's with her. Angry or annoyed, sometimes, yes. Protective and fond, yes. Yes. All these things. He really was one of them then. That's what pisses me off so much when they kick him to the curb as soon as Buffy comes back. It's like they were using his strength and when they got their Slayer back they didn't need him anymore. That must have been a blow to Spike. When he says "I worked beside you all summer!" my heart breaks.
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Post by luvmyfirefly on May 27, 2009 21:30:52 GMT -5
* Why do you guys think that Giles and Spike and Dawn are the ones who can't know about the plan, really? All Willow says is they "wouldn't understand", but is it just 'cuz they are the only ones who might stop her? I mean, I think Willow does think she knows why she wants to do the spell, but I also think she is deceiving herself a bit. * OK, James is awesome in the scene with the 'Bot and Willow - you can actually see him freeze when she says the thing his washboard abs and the way his voice goes all . . . still and intense. But also? Look at his ass when the camera is focusing on Willow sitting opposite the 'bot and he's just on the edge of the screen. Damn. I mean, Damn!! * Willow, Willow, Willow. So determined to make everything "good as new". 'Bot on Buffy's bed, in her "sleep" clothes, plugged in and still, with Danw curling up next to her? * The 'Bot isn't as good a fighter as Buffy. She telegraphs her punches too much. I'm not surprised that Hanson!vamp was able to get to her. * The scene with the deer is creepy because of how Willow acts, now she is looking around for others and so on, more so than what she is actually doing. * Heee! Tara's grrr argggh. ;D Giles saying goodbye at airport. * The spell is basically one long session of begging, isn't it? At what point was it enough, I wonder? Before the urn was smashed? After? Giles would stop them for mystical reasons, Spike would stop them for practical ones, and Dawn- who did the spell to raise Joyce- would be completely freaked by the possiblility of Zombie-Buffy, I think. Willow isn't yet able to fight Giles's authority, or risk his disapproval. Xander and Anya's support is too tenuous to risk Spike putting voice to their doubts, and Tara would almost certainly side with Dawn; Willow puts it in terms of avoiding hurting them, or raising false hope, but I think she knows just how uncertain everyone else is, and how easily the people she needs to help her would be dissuaded. Julia, she's not at the peak of her hubris, or her self-deception, but she's pretty damned manipulative. Also, I think it would never occur to Spike that she would be in some hell dimension. I just think he would feel that Slayers who give their lives to save the world don't end up in hell. I still can't figure out why Willow and the others thought that was where she was. I remember a lot of fanfic emphasizing that they didn't try to use magic to figure out where she was before they tried to bring her back. Is this ever mentioned in the show?
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Post by luvmyfirefly on May 27, 2009 21:41:52 GMT -5
Yeah, the fawn scene is hard to take, and really does show just how far lost to normal emotions Willow can get in pursuit of magical power. There's a straight line from that scene to the tantrum in the Magic Box, and to everything she does in "Grave." Julia, s6 Willow is scarier on every rewatch And especially scary because it was so very very possible that they would not have been able to stop her. Hell yes.
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Post by Lola m on May 31, 2009 18:23:57 GMT -5
Giles would stop them for mystical reasons, Spike would stop them for practical ones, and Dawn- who did the spell to raise Joyce- would be completely freaked by the possiblility of Zombie-Buffy, I think. Willow isn't yet able to fight Giles's authority, or risk his disapproval. Xander and Anya's support is too tenuous to risk Spike putting voice to their doubts, and Tara would almost certainly side with Dawn; Willow puts it in terms of avoiding hurting them, or raising false hope, but I think she knows just how uncertain everyone else is, and how easily the people she needs to help her would be dissuaded. Julia, she's not at the peak of her hubris, or her self-deception, but she's pretty damned manipulative. Also, I think it would never occur to Spike that she would be in some hell dimension. I just think he would feel that Slayers who give their lives to save the world don't end up in hell. I still can't figure out why Willow and the others thought that was where she was. I remember a lot of fanfic emphasizing that they didn't try to use magic to figure out where she was before they tried to bring her back. Is this ever mentioned in the show? I don't think it is brought up on the show, but it has often been discussed by fans. While I realize that, from a writing perspective, the primary reason was because they needed the gang to bring Buffy back. But I have always imagined that it is attributable to 1) them not wanting to know, because they want Buffy back and 2) making leaps of assumption due to their previous experience with Angel. In the show, of course, Spike believes with them that Buffy was in a hell dimension too. I tend to think there is also an element of belief fueling belief. The more they think they know what happened, the more they interpret each new fact they accumulate in a way that reinforces their vision of things.
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Post by Kate (K8) on Jun 22, 2009 13:51:19 GMT -5
I think Spike only mentions hell after Buffy told the gang she was in hell and they had the group hug that he didn't want to interrupt. Back at the house he says how long was it where you were. I think he assumed she told her friends the truth.
Definitely agree with belief fueling belief.
Also...
Willow: No-one is changing their mind
...VERY scary.
It would totally get my back up if someone told me what I could or couldn't think, yet, (correct me if I'm wrong) only xander reacts and gets corrected by saying he made her the boss. Shes acting as a dictator who believes only she is right and not the group leader.
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