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Post by Lola m on Jul 17, 2006 16:30:48 GMT -5
In the commentary for this ep., Drew Greenberg mentions how Buffy and Spike are both equally lost at this point. Buffy and Spike have always been equals (IMO) even if she didn't want to admit it. As for the destruction of the house as metaphor for the destructive nature of their relationship, we assume that destruction is a bad thing. But the house is abandoned and decrepit anyway. It can't be repaired. OTOH, if the foundation's sturdy, it can be rebuilt. Definitely both lost, and I'd agree (for the most part) on the equals part too. I don't know that they always see it that way, but in a lot of ways it is the truth. Equal and opposited sometimes, but . . . I like your metaphor of the abandonded house. Sometimes things need to be torn down to the ground and then rebuilt stronger. We see this with Buffy and Spike, but also I think (eventually) Willow and Tara. Fredspuffed - love the thoughts you are sparking with the question of "is it worth the risk"!! Definite links to the "vision quest" thing of Buffy's in Intervention - "love, give, forgive". And also to sacrificing for someone you love - dying so Dawn can live, etc. And of course, Spike pointed the way in Tough Love. "I told Willow it would be like suicide." "I'd do it. Right person. Person I loved. I'd do it."
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Post by Lola m on Jul 17, 2006 16:32:39 GMT -5
I find it interesting (and somewhat amusing) that Robin and Faith's little encounter was nothing like a "revelation." Seemed like it was nothing to write home about. Not the morning after, but Robin did persist and it did seem like by the end of Chosen they had the promising beginning of a relationship. Faith needed to be shaken out of her usual "wham, bam, thank you sir" mode perhaps. Take her time and really see the other person?
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Post by Lola m on Jul 17, 2006 16:40:58 GMT -5
God, I love this episode. Lots and lots of stuff to ponder about Willow, Spike, and Buffy. And in between? Funny, funny, funny. Also? HOT!! AND DISTURBING!! AND HOT!! Totally!!!!!! **bounces** I have a big big love for season 6 (warts and all) and Smashed is one of the reasons! The whole museum bit is too too funny. ;D I gotta think she knows, at least somewhat, just because of the whole mess with Tara leaving. But, IMHO, she says and does nothing as part and parcel of her own ongoing depression, a deep need to sink into denial about a lot of stuff, and just plain being tired. I love when they play off her shortness. ;D OMG, the troika and Spike scenes are all too fun for words. Just the look on JM's face before he yells for Warren cracks me up every time. #rofl1# #smirk#
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Post by Onjel on Jul 17, 2006 20:29:39 GMT -5
Looking for something to take the heat off? Then, answer these questions for your chance to be cool and wear the smarty pants. What was the name of the Sunnydale Museum guard who was frozen by the Trio's Freeze Ray gun? Bonus Question: What was used to thaw him out? What great fear did Andrew reveal in the episode? To what is Jonathan allergic, as revealed in this episode?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 18, 2006 7:32:38 GMT -5
Looking for something to take the heat off? Then, answer these questions for your chance to be cool and wear the smarty pants. What was the name of the Sunnydale Museum guard who was frozen by the Trio's Freeze Ray gun? <snip> I don't know...could it be Rusty? hair dryers He's afraid of hot things. He's allergic to methane.
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Post by Karen on Jul 18, 2006 7:56:37 GMT -5
In the commentary for this ep., Drew Greenberg mentions how Buffy and Spike are both equally lost at this point. Buffy and Spike have always been equals (IMO) even if she didn't want to admit it. As for the destruction of the house as metaphor for the destructive nature of their relationship, we assume that destruction is a bad thing. But the house is abandoned and decrepit anyway. It can't be repaired. OTOH, if the foundation's sturdy, it can be rebuilt. Oh! You have read my mind, and you are going to like my new analysis, then ( Checkpoint). I have a part about the consistent mutuality of Buffy & Spike's relationship - would love to hear your thoughts on that. It should be posted soon. I have always seen the "walls tumbling down" as a two-sided image . . . it's destructive, but it's also freeing. I don't think it was meant as a wholly negative image, and I've never bought into that picture of it. And in the end, it turns out to be, as Spike knows almost immediately, a "revelation," and something that leads both parties into the light. Oh, new Spring analysis!! I love the house metaphor - there are so many ways to look at it. It can also be said that the walls didn't tumble down as much as they were smashed down by Buffy and Spike's passion. And about time, too! ;D
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Post by Onjel on Jul 18, 2006 8:10:02 GMT -5
Looking for something to take the heat off? Then, answer these questions for your chance to be cool and wear the smarty pants. What was the name of the Sunnydale Museum guard who was frozen by the Trio's Freeze Ray gun? <snip> I don't know...could it be Rusty? hair dryers He's afraid of hot things. He's allergic to methane. Liz does it again! She's the Coolest! Congratulations on your win!
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Post by Karen on Jul 18, 2006 8:15:38 GMT -5
“In what was evidently one of the great botched metaphors in the history of storytelling, Buffy and Spike consummate their relationship and demolish a derelict mansion in their throes. Houses are a common symbol for people in stories…and this one seems to clearly represent Buffy’s once rich but now derelict past life. She has died in one life and been resurrected into a new one, but she’s clinging to the past, living in the decaying shell of her former existence, an old life that must be rejected before she can live fully in the new world. When she embraces Spike, she embraces the dark side of her destiny, an adult rejection of the simplistic good/evil universe of her childhood, freeing herself to move into the future…Their consummation takes them to the deepest levels, both symbolically and literally as they fall into the basement, and leaves Buffy standing in a shaft of light in the morning, reborn. As metaphoric scenes go, it’s one of the most powerful in the history of the series. Except that’s evidently not what the writers had in mind, since they insisted in interviews that the wreck symbolized the relationship as a bad choice.” ~Jennifer Crusie, “Dating Death,” excerpted from Seven Seasons of Buffy Yeah. Well, what do they know?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 18, 2006 8:19:05 GMT -5
Oh! You have read my mind, and you are going to like my new analysis, then ( Checkpoint). I have a part about the consistent mutuality of Buffy & Spike's relationship - would love to hear your thoughts on that. It should be posted soon. I have always seen the "walls tumbling down" as a two-sided image . . . it's destructive, but it's also freeing. I don't think it was meant as a wholly negative image, and I've never bought into that picture of it. And in the end, it turns out to be, as Spike knows almost immediately, a "revelation," and something that leads both parties into the light. Oh, new Spring analysis!! I love the house metaphor - there are so many ways to look at it. It can also be said that the walls didn't tumble down as much as they were smashed down by Buffy and Spike's passion. And about time, too! ;D While on this subject, a thought that occurred to me: Smashed: Bodies clasped together, destroying the house Chosen: Hands clasped together, destroying the town
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Post by Karen on Jul 18, 2006 8:23:38 GMT -5
God, I love this episode. Lots and lots of stuff to ponder about Willow, Spike, and Buffy. And in between? Funny, funny, funny. Also? HOT!! AND DISTURBING!! AND HOT!! So here I bring the funny and some minor points to ponder, since I really haven't wrapped my brain around everything else yet: *Spike's comments about how the chip should allow him to eat criminals reminds me of Angel's decision to eat murderers and rapists during the Boxer Rebellion. Oh, good thought! I love how Joss shows us similar themes in different ways. I assume that she does know, but Buffy - not usually so good at confrontation unless it's to stake the vampires. I say serious. 'Vampire.' Love the funny, funny bits!! This ep had it all. Or really funny, in an ironic, sick sort of way. Just a bit jarring. LOL! Can't wait to rewatch the ep now!
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 18, 2006 11:06:11 GMT -5
“In what was evidently one of the great botched metaphors in the history of storytelling, Buffy and Spike consummate their relationship and demolish a derelict mansion in their throes. Houses are a common symbol for people in stories…and this one seems to clearly represent Buffy’s once rich but now derelict past life. She has died in one life and been resurrected into a new one, but she’s clinging to the past, living in the decaying shell of her former existence, an old life that must be rejected before she can live fully in the new world. When she embraces Spike, she embraces the dark side of her destiny, an adult rejection of the simplistic good/evil universe of her childhood, freeing herself to move into the future…Their consummation takes them to the deepest levels, both symbolically and literally as they fall into the basement, and leaves Buffy standing in a shaft of light in the morning, reborn. As metaphoric scenes go, it’s one of the most powerful in the history of the series. Except that’s evidently not what the writers had in mind, since they insisted in interviews that the wreck symbolized the relationship as a bad choice.” ~Jennifer Crusie, “Dating Death,” excerpted from Seven Seasons of Buffy Yeah. Well, what do they know? I honestly don't buy this contention - I mean, the idea that the writers believed that the wreck exclusively symbolized the relationship as a "bad choice." I mean - it was partly that, and the writers did speak to that . . . but it was so much more than that, and they knew that, also. The relationship is about the only thing keeping Buffy alive, connecting her to life, through most of the Season. And at the end of the Season, it's her relationship with Spike that has helped lead Buffy back to the land of the living, and Spike back to his soul. Buffy's relationship with Spike was very deliberately presented in the opposite way of her relationship with Angel - the "wrong" very in your face; the "right" underlying (as opposed to the "right" very in your face; the "wrong" underlying). But it's plain to me anyhow, when I review the eps in hindsight, that the writers were quite aware of the big picture.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 18, 2006 11:07:08 GMT -5
Oh, new Spring analysis!! I love the house metaphor - there are so many ways to look at it. It can also be said that the walls didn't tumble down as much as they were smashed down by Buffy and Spike's passion. And about time, too! ;D While on this subject, a thought that occurred to me: Smashed: Bodies clasped together, destroying the house Chosen: Hands clasped together, destroying the town Yes - that was one cataclysmic pairing.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 18, 2006 11:16:24 GMT -5
God, I love this episode. Lots and lots of stuff to ponder about Willow, Spike, and Buffy. And in between? Funny, funny, funny. Also? HOT!! AND DISTURBING!! AND HOT!! Me too. It's a wonderful ep from start to finish. Yes - interesting. Really gets you thinking on the chip/soul comparison. He seemed serious. And it's interesting that Spike would wonder about whether or not a sexual relationship would exist with a "parental unit" type, given his own history with his mum. Yes - great scene. James is just sooooo good in this ep. Every scene he's in just blows me away. As early as "I was made to love you," it seems that Warren knows Spike is a vampire. I think we are just given the general impression that Warren is someone who has made it his business to find out about the demonic goings-on in Sunnydale. Remember how he seems to realize immediately why Buffy should be at his door about April? At that point, I don't think an earthquake could have jarred me from my spot on the living room floor (I believe I had already fallen off the sofa by that time).
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Post by Michelle on Jul 18, 2006 16:41:21 GMT -5
Check out this video montage of dailies featuring SMG and JM (mostly from Smashed and Wrecked):
Happy viewing!
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Post by Lola m on Jul 19, 2006 7:52:21 GMT -5
Oh, new Spring analysis!! I love the house metaphor - there are so many ways to look at it. It can also be said that the walls didn't tumble down as much as they were smashed down by Buffy and Spike's passion. And about time, too! ;D While on this subject, a thought that occurred to me: Smashed: Bodies clasped together, destroying the house Chosen: Hands clasped together, destroying the town Spike's hands being hurt by the sword in Spiral and burned in grabbing the box from Doc in The Weight of the World and cut off in Damage. Spike is "the hand" like Buffy is "the hand" in Primeval? Another link between them?
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