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Post by Lola m on Jul 19, 2006 7:53:27 GMT -5
Check out this video montage of dailies featuring SMG and JM (mostly from Smashed and Wrecked): Happy viewing! **squees** Dailies!! I love dailies!  |
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 19, 2006 8:17:16 GMT -5
While on this subject, a thought that occurred to me: Smashed: Bodies clasped together, destroying the house Chosen: Hands clasped together, destroying the town Spike's hands being hurt by the sword in Spiral and burned in grabbing the box from Doc in The Weight of the World and cut off in Damage. Spike is "the hand" like Buffy is "the hand" in Primeval? Another link between them? Spike burning his hand in "Lovers Walk" and then also in the Winnebago . . . Spike hands. Hands of Spike. |
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 19, 2006 9:05:35 GMT -5
Spike's hands being hurt by the sword in Spiral and burned in grabbing the box from Doc in The Weight of the World and cut off in Damage. Spike is "the hand" like Buffy is "the hand" in Primeval? Another link between them? Spike burning his hand in "Lovers Walk" and then also in the Winnebago . . . Spike hands. Hands of Spike. On the subject of hand imagery in Smashed itself, there's the manikin arm next to Spike when Warren is scanning him. It's so random that surely it was deliberate. |
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Post by Lola m on Jul 19, 2006 11:43:13 GMT -5
Spike burning his hand in "Lovers Walk" and then also in the Winnebago . . . Spike hands. Hands of Spike. On the subject of hand imagery in Smashed itself, there's the manikin arm next to Spike when Warren is scanning him. It's so random that surely it was deliberate. Nice list! And **nods** on the manikin arm. It's so noticible in the shot. Meant to remind us of all the connections? Spike is the hand - Spike's connection to Warren through the Buffybot - Spike's connection to Buffy through his love of her and them each having the "active" role; being the hand. Plus? Mmmmmmmmmmmm, hands of Spike. Hands with thumbs hooked in waistbands, hands framing things so nicely . . . handshandshands mmmmmmm I like hands |
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Post by Michelle on Jul 20, 2006 19:52:02 GMT -5
This is an interesting quote from Marti Noxon. It relates to Spring's contention that the writers knew the relationship between Buffy & Spike wasn't altogether bad for either one of them.
“People either love it or hate it. To this day, people either truly believe that Spike is completely redeemed and should be treated a lot better, or they truly believe that Buffy is a fool for trusting someone who’s been evil and how can she be so unheroic as to allow herself to be caught up in this really sordid romance? So you get the total Buffy/Spikeshippers or you get the attitude, ‘I just don’t respect Buffy any more.’ It’s fascinating to see.
The thing I keep saying is that it’s not black and white. I’d love it to be, but it’s not. To me, this is much more real. If these two crazy kids can make it work, it will be a lot more interesting than a kind of perfect romance with obstacles thrown in. To me, this is real life; this is people making their own problems. If they can get it together, that would be amazing. But it was never going to be easy. That’s why Spike did something radical at the end of the year. Joss came up with the idea of the house coming down around them while they made love. It was perfect, because we needed something catastrophic to go along with this huge dangerous union.”
It's interesting that Marti assumes that "people" (I guess she means fans of the show) viewed the relationship in black & white terms, and many viewers assume the writers viewed the relationship, well, in mostly black terms--with no white at all. But I think Marti was underestimating the intelligence of the fans, and many fans may be underestimating the depth of the writers' views. Maybe the writers and the fans were more in sync than previously thought?
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 21, 2006 7:40:01 GMT -5
This is an interesting quote from Marti Noxon. It relates to Spring's contention that the writers knew the relationship between Buffy & Spike wasn't altogether bad for either one of them. “People either love it or hate it. To this day, people either truly believe that Spike is completely redeemed and should be treated a lot better, or they truly believe that Buffy is a fool for trusting someone who’s been evil and how can she be so unheroic as to allow herself to be caught up in this really sordid romance? So you get the total Buffy/Spikeshippers or you get the attitude, ‘I just don’t respect Buffy any more.’ It’s fascinating to see. The thing I keep saying is that it’s not black and white. I’d love it to be, but it’s not. To me, this is much more real. If these two crazy kids can make it work, it will be a lot more interesting than a kind of perfect romance with obstacles thrown in. To me, this is real life; this is people making their own problems. If they can get it together, that would be amazing. But it was never going to be easy. That’s why Spike did something radical at the end of the year. Joss came up with the idea of the house coming down around them while they made love. It was perfect, because we needed something catastrophic to go along with this huge dangerous union.” It's interesting that Marti assumes that "people" (I guess she means fans of the show) viewed the relationship in black & white terms, and many viewers assume the writers viewed the relationship, well, in mostly black terms--with no white at all. But I think Marti was underestimating the intelligence of the fans, and many fans may be underestimating the depth of the writers' views. Maybe the writers and the fans were more in sync than previously thought? People hear what they want to hear; focus on what they want to focus on. I think you're right that certain fans underestimated certain writers, and vice-versa. But if you truly look at the big picture, you can see the depth of understanding that went into the writing, and the viewing, from most all involved - the regular writers, and the die-hard fans, and most definitely, JOSS. |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jul 21, 2006 7:44:23 GMT -5
This is an interesting quote from Marti Noxon. It relates to Spring's contention that the writers knew the relationship between Buffy & Spike wasn't altogether bad for either one of them. “People either love it or hate it. To this day, people either truly believe that Spike is completely redeemed and should be treated a lot better, or they truly believe that Buffy is a fool for trusting someone who’s been evil and how can she be so unheroic as to allow herself to be caught up in this really sordid romance? So you get the total Buffy/Spikeshippers or you get the attitude, ‘I just don’t respect Buffy any more.’ It’s fascinating to see. The thing I keep saying is that it’s not black and white. I’d love it to be, but it’s not. To me, this is much more real. If these two crazy kids can make it work, it will be a lot more interesting than a kind of perfect romance with obstacles thrown in. To me, this is real life; this is people making their own problems. If they can get it together, that would be amazing. But it was never going to be easy. That’s why Spike did something radical at the end of the year. Joss came up with the idea of the house coming down around them while they made love. It was perfect, because we needed something catastrophic to go along with this huge dangerous union.” It's interesting that Marti assumes that "people" (I guess she means fans of the show) viewed the relationship in black & white terms, and many viewers assume the writers viewed the relationship, well, in mostly black terms--with no white at all. But I think Marti was underestimating the intelligence of the fans, and many fans may be underestimating the depth of the writers' views. Maybe the writers and the fans were more in sync than previously thought? People hear what they want to hear; focus on what they want to focus on. I think you're right that certain fans underestimated certain writers, and vice-versa. But if you truly look at the big picture, you can see the depth of understanding that went into the writing, and the viewing, from most all involved - the regular writers, and the die-hard fans, and most definitely, JOSS. I also suspect that, as usual, the fans that make the most noise get noticed by the PTB. Those of us who express our appreciation more quietly, i.e., we here, don't. If you see what I mean. Good comments, and I agree entirely about the subtlety of the storytelling - there are always layers and shades of meaning. |
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Post by Onjel on Jul 21, 2006 20:00:58 GMT -5
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 21, 2006 22:08:45 GMT -5
<snip> Wait. How long has it been since we opened this thread for the festival? Just a few more days until the next winning BtVS episode is announced, so let's round out the week with new trivia questions. <snip> What is the name of the band <snip> that Willow changes into all women, while at the Bronze with Amy? What is the name of the all-female band <snip> they became? Virgil --> Halo Friendlies |
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Post by Lola m on Jul 22, 2006 10:42:06 GMT -5
People hear what they want to hear; focus on what they want to focus on. I think you're right that certain fans underestimated certain writers, and vice-versa. But if you truly look at the big picture, you can see the depth of understanding that went into the writing, and the viewing, from most all involved - the regular writers, and the die-hard fans, and most definitely, JOSS. I also suspect that, as usual, the fans that make the most noise get noticed by the PTB. Those of us who express our appreciation more quietly, i.e., we here, don't. If you see what I mean. Good comments, and I agree entirely about the subtlety of the storytelling - there are always layers and shades of meaning. **nods** I was thinking something like this too. That fans who are in the extreme camps tend to get noticed more. And that there is a large group of quieter ones who both understand and like the non-black & whiteness of the storyline. |
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Post by Lola m on Jul 22, 2006 10:44:01 GMT -5
<snippy snip, since I just realised I thought I was on the festival thread when I posted it  > |
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Post by Michelle on Jul 22, 2006 18:51:44 GMT -5
Nothing much to say about the Willow/Amy story other than, how the heck did Willow suddenly come up with these pretty hip outfits for both herself and Amy? Over the knee stockings??  I never made the connection before between Buffy’s comment to Spike “That’s what you get for hitting a human” (after he hits the muggers and gets a headache for his efforts) and later, when he hits Buffy and tells her she came back wrong. Of course she must have immediately thought that she was a demon, or at least inhuman. From that point, Buffy thinks she’s something less than human, and behaves as such. I have to say, I never liked Tara’s explanation that she had a cellular sunburn. In essence, it seemed to give the message that since Buffy was essentially unchanged after coming back from the dead, her actions were less excusable. I think it would have been more interesting if instead of being less than human, Buffy had found out more about what makes her superhuman, i.e. a Slayer. This would have been a nice extension of the themes explored in Season 5. If Buffy had discovered or came to realize that she needs the darkness as much as she needs the light as a source of empowerment, it would have gone a lot farther toward healing her psyche than to be told by Tara that she was the same old Buffy. Other things: When Spike corners the girl in the alley, he does a boob check:  He also does it to Buffy in “Something Blue”:  Just had to point that out because it makes me laugh! Regarding the confrontation in the house: While what we do see on screen is violent and not “normal” by the standards most people apply to a sexual relationship, there are many things we don’t see. Such as: - We never see Spike going into vamp face,
- As an extension of that, we never see any attempt to bite Buffy (in fact he only threatens to bite Buffy in “Wrecked,” and we can assume he never follows through.)
- With all the wood available in the dilapidated house, we never see Buffy fashion a stake
- And therefore certainly never see her attempt to stake Spike
- We never see any cuts, bruises, or blood (though in “Wrecked,” Spike does appear to have some scratches). In fact Buffy tells Spike, “You haven’t even come close to hurting me.”
This indicates to me that while this might not be the most advisable way to work out issues, it works for Buffy and Spike. They both push each other boundaries; yet at the same time know not to take things too far. I also want to comment on the music playing at the end as Buffy clings to Spike, he stumbles, and they go crashing through the floor. The show used music very effectively throughout the series, and this is no exception. It has an almost spiritual quality to it that is rather striking. For me, it set a tone of revelation and importance. The music didn’t evoke the feeling that it was either positive or negative, but it did convey that it is it is a pivotal moment for both of them. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 22, 2006 19:51:20 GMT -5
Nothing much to say about the Willow/Anya story other than, how the heck did Willow suddenly come up with these pretty hip outfits for both herself and Amy? Over the knee stockings?? <snip> I never made the connection before between Buffy’s comment to Spike “That’s what you get for hitting a human” (after he hits the muggers and gets a headache for his efforts) and later, when he hits Buffy and tells her she came back wrong. Of course she must have immediately thought that she was a demon, or at least inhuman. Yes, good catch! Buffy was almost hoping that she HAD come back wrong, because then she could forgive herself for getting involved with Spike, and for her behavior toward him. She could explain it to herself without having to face some truths about herself and some of her very cherished, idealized views of herself and others. I think that is what the reaction to the "cellular sunburn" was about. It was about how much in denial Buffy was; how much she was trying to cling to a particular view of herself and her world. Yes - men and their boob checks . . . it is funny to notice it on camera like that.  The music is wonderful. I've always thought it was an excellent choice - there's a poignancy to it, a sort of sadness mixed with relief - and mostly, to me, there's this sense of falling, of letting yourself fall. |
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Post by Karen on Jul 22, 2006 20:51:19 GMT -5
Season 6 Promo Video
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jul 22, 2006 23:33:38 GMT -5
They're great promos, but I never saw them before. |
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that Willow changes into all women, while at the Bronze with Amy?
they became?
>
