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Post by KMInfinity on Jul 20, 2005 10:16:51 GMT -5
And maybe another sign that Xander understands things better...He wasn't part of the Giles-Robin let's kill Spike team in LMPTM.
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Post by Moscow Watcher on Jul 20, 2005 12:05:54 GMT -5
Today's trivia stumper: What time period was the St. Petersburg scene with Halfrek originally supposed to be? I believe they initially wanted to do the Renaissance flashback but decided against it because by that time they still haven't figured out if Cecily had been human or demon in 1880. So writers placed the flashback after 1880.
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Post by Rob on Jul 20, 2005 13:57:58 GMT -5
And maybe another sign that Xander understands things better...He wasn't part of the Giles-Robin let's kill Spike team in LMPTM. Xander would've had no practical use anyway, from Giles's point of view. If Giles HAD chosen to share (for whatever reason), I'm certain Xander would've blown it out of the water immediately. He'd done the "hide things from Buffy to protect her from herself" routine a long time ago, and clearly the results of that decision remained with him. Fans can hypothesize all day long about the pros and cons of Xander's actions all those years ago, but the character will - and should - always have serious doubts. It's not something one does lightly.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jul 20, 2005 14:01:43 GMT -5
And maybe another sign that Xander understands things better...He wasn't part of the Giles-Robin let's kill Spike team in LMPTM. By that time he'd been room mates with Spike for some time. I think he began to understand and sympathize with him by then. Xander's empathy for Spike dates all the way back to when he took Spike back to his crypt after Spike's encounter with Glory. Xander ccontinues to bash Spike verbally, and the incident with Anya nearly destroys the empathy he's developed, but even after that Xander moves steadily further and further into Spike's corner.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 20, 2005 15:21:39 GMT -5
And maybe another sign that Xander understands things better...He wasn't part of the Giles-Robin let's kill Spike team in LMPTM. By that time he'd been room mates with Spike for some time. I think he began to understand and sympathize with him by then. Xander's empathy for Spike dates all the way back to when he took Spike back to his crypt after Spike's encounter with Glory. Xander ccontinues to bash Spike verbally, and the incident with Anya nearly destroys the empathy he's developed, but even after that Xander moves steadily further and further into Spike's corner. Yes, in fact, in LMPTM, the ep where Giles and Wood conspire to kill Spike, a point is made of Xander behaving sympathetically toward Spike. I can't remember the exact words, but basically, he makes some encouraging comments and pats Spike on the back, in regard to having to let Giles put that thing in his head. No way Xander would have gone along with the plan to kill Spike. If he had been persuaded that Spike represented a real and present danger, and there was no other way than to kill him, he wouldn't have gone along with hiding it from Buffy, as Rob says. Spike & Xander are quite a lot alike, and do a lot of mutual verbal bashing as the years go by - but it's very love/hate, and toward the end, neither party is inclined to spend much time on the "hate" part. Season 7 - it had its problems borne of trying to fit too much in, in too little time, while trying to keep spin-off options open and the like - but it was so miraculous, in so many ways.
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Jul 20, 2005 20:27:06 GMT -5
Someone- Rob, I think, has mentioned Anya's economic theories with the bunny-sharing and the rise of the proletariat; in all cases, she's expressing phiolsophical opinions popular at that point in history: her discussion of sharing rabbts for good will and whatever is a reflection of the missionary Christianity of the Balkans and Scandanavia in the 9th-11th centuries; it is the equivalent of being a 1905 Marxist or a 2000 computerized daytrader.
That Anya, always caught up with her times.
Which comes to one of the thngs that "Selfless" says about Anya as a demon and a human: she's all about not only fitting in but being fashionable.
Julia, off to make dinner, as usual
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Post by Karen on Jul 20, 2005 23:32:16 GMT -5
I think the greatest thing about this episode is it typifies how well BtVS was able to do what Joss originally intended: create a series that could segue from humor to drama to action-adventure to horror and back seamlessly. And then add in the musical elements and we’re looking at an episode that pretty much exceeds his original goals. Somehow, even though I love this episode from a technical POV – in my heart it isn’t one of my favorites. Seeing Xander and Anya walking away from each other at the episode’s end, hearing D’Hoffryn casually remark the early season tagline, “From beneath you, it devours” and knowing Anya’s final fate…just depresses me. Now, other episodes are “tragic” but somehow, Anya’s fate bothers me more, because I don’t think she ever really had a chance…In reference to the Cask of Amontillado..it had been awhile since I read it… (awhile? Try 25 years-lol) so I surfed a bit. I think Spike’s reference wasn’t that he represented Montresor and Buffy represented Fortunato – but the reverse. According to Spring: which I thought could mean: Act like the one wronged here all you want/Play the part of the one betrayed…(and then, knowing the story, meaning) but you’re no better than I am…And it’s interesting that Montresor’s family motto is: "Nemo me impune lacessit" or "No one assails me with impunity." I agree with Rob that Buffy probably figured out Xander’s betrayal in Becoming, but it’s pretty clear Willow never knew. I know what you mean about how knowing what was in store for Anya makes watching the episode difficult to watch. It was hard seeing Anya die at the end, especially when she finally *got* what it meant to be a human, and died "fighting for what really matters". It really was a beautiful ending for her. She died a hero. Not many people come back from a place of vengeance and actually do something good with their lives, and much of the credit for Anya's redemption lies with Xander and the Scoobies.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 21, 2005 11:39:35 GMT -5
Today's trivia question: Can you name the early 90s sitcom Abraham Benrubi was in? My sons used to love this show. It was set in High School, and I think the character's name was Larry. The show was called . . . Parker Lewis Can't Lose. I'm a little shaky on the "Lewis" last name, but I think it was Lewis. It was a good show.
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Post by Queen E on Jul 21, 2005 14:29:48 GMT -5
Today's trivia stumper: What time period was the St. Petersburg scene with Halfrek originally supposed to be? I believe they initially wanted to do the Renaissance flashback but decided against it because by that time they still haven't figured out if Cecily had been human or demon in 1880. So writers placed the flashback after 1880. Today's trivia question: Can you name the early 90s sitcom Abraham Benrubi was in? My sons used to love this show. It was set in High School, and I think the character's name was Larry. The show was called . . . Parker Lewis Can't Lose. I'm a little shaky on the "Lewis" last name, but I think it was Lewis. It was a good show. Yes, and yes! You're both smart and awesome!
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Post by Queen E on Jul 21, 2005 14:31:23 GMT -5
Funny tidbit: I went to college with one of the villagers from that scene. I believe it was the guy who said: "Hit him with fruits and various meats." You always know the best people, Erin! Hee! He also had really good...substances I shouldn't mention in a public forum. Very good looking too...sigh.
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Post by LadyDi on Jul 21, 2005 15:05:27 GMT -5
Today's trivia question: Can you name the early 90s sitcom Abraham Benrubi was in? My sons used to love this show. It was set in High School, and I think the character's name was Larry. The show was called . . . Parker Lewis Can't Lose. I'm a little shaky on the "Lewis" last name, but I think it was Lewis. It was a good show. I really liked this show too. I still think 'Koob!' when I see Benrubi. Don't remember his character's first name, but the last name was Kubiak, aka Koob. Why my brain retains this information, and not more important stuff is one of the great mysteries of the universe.
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Post by Queen E on Jul 22, 2005 15:22:20 GMT -5
My sons used to love this show. It was set in High School, and I think the character's name was Larry. The show was called . . . Parker Lewis Can't Lose. I'm a little shaky on the "Lewis" last name, but I think it was Lewis. It was a good show. I really liked this show too. I still think 'Koob!' when I see Benrubi. Don't remember his character's first name, but the last name was Kubiak, aka Koob. Why my brain retains this information, and not more important stuff is one of the great mysteries of the universe. Larry. And don't worry...my brain is the same way.
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Post by Queen E on Jul 22, 2005 15:33:01 GMT -5
Today's trivia:
What line in Selfless did the network object to?
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Post by KMInfinity on Jul 22, 2005 16:43:32 GMT -5
Today's trivia: What line in Selfless did the network object to? I think that was on the commentary - the one about Abercrombie and fitch? because it was sooo insensitive for D'Hoffryn to say that about dead folks.
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Post by Lola m on Jul 23, 2005 16:18:48 GMT -5
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