Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Feb 15, 2004 17:32:59 GMT -5
Again, returning to The X-Files for a moment...in an ep called Triangle Mulder winds up on a boat overrun by Nazis (played by Cancer Man, Spender, et al) and his response to German is very similar to Spike's - "I don't speak Nazi!" DD always said he played Mulder as Jewish (altho' that was never established). The Jews and the Brits had plenty of reason to reject anything related to the Third Reich. As for the language thing, I think they're trying to emphasize Spike's demon-ness in this ep. He's learned demon languages because he's a demon. Humans are just food. Even if he enjoys their music, he doesn't have to understand it to appreciate it. I love that Evil takes a backseat to English for Spike. I knew he was way too British to be working with the Nazis voluntarily, and it ties in nicely with the conversation he and Angel had at the end of Damage. For all his protestations to the contrary, Spike wasn't Big-E Evil, just monumentally insensitive.
Fanwankery: maybe he was in Spain picking off Franco supporters. If you're gonna eat people anyway, you could do a lot worse than munch on a bunch of facsists.
HEE! It would explain the hair, too...
Spike's "I don't speak Nazi" also places William even more firmly in a particular segment of the 1880s intelligensia: the part of it that laughed in glee at Aubrey Beardsley's "The Wagnerians" which depicts some very well-fed backs watching an opera.
Julia, who will now run away and see if I can find a link to that picture.
Mr Word, Mrs Word, all the little Words, their goldfish Word and their great-aunt Florence Corthingale (maiden name: Word) heartily agree with you.
as always, another great job! It won't be just Angel we may be missing; it'll be your terrific reviews.
I second whomever said earlier that "Why We Fight" is not just the name of this episode, but the reason for the series; Angel's mission.
from Mssrs. Fury and Petrie: "We figure we strap enough weight to you, you will sink, regardless of your interests." hmmm. Fury and Petrie weigh Angel down, and he sinks...Sorta like what's happening in our reality, no? The writers have weighed Angel down, and he is sinking....fast....bummer.
I don't see that the writers have weighed Angel down as much as the network has. They wanted Joss to make "Angel" much lighter this year. Joss doesn't do "light". I think that it shows that he has lost his mission by trying to work within the networks rules.
Now that he's been "cut loose" by the SP, let's hope that he gets back to his original purpose and "Angel" has a kick-ass ending that will make him and us proud.
And just like Angel was unshackled by Law-son (thanks Rae), let's hope that he can unshackle himself (with some help from Spike) and his gang from the deal he made with W&H, find a renewed sense of purpose and hope.
pfft. I wasn't going to be depressed. I haven't been able to grade a paper or finish the exam I started, all of which are due tomorrow. And I don't even work for ME. I just can't imagine how badly the cast and crew must be feeling this weekend.
Both Angel and Spike just aren't what they seem to be. Angel seems to be Capt. America - but he isn't. Spike seems to be a Nazi - but he isn't; he's gloriously proud to be an ENGLISH vampire.
"I'm gonna get us through this safe and sound. " "Angel doesn't know why we fight." Prophetic. I am right how feeling that JW is also tired, like Angel, of fighting the Senior Partners. Can we (the fans) be HIS Cordelia?
I think we need to be Joss's Cordelia and show him how much we want him to continue with Angel - if not at the WB, then elsewhere.
"Give me a mission, Chief. .. Give me a reason." Angel can't do this. His response is to dust Lawson - to literally put him out of his misery. And so, Angel kills yet another member of his family. (If I were Spike, I'd be afraid, very afraid - and grateful for the soul.)
I sincerely hope, based on the latest news about Angel that both Spike AND Angel know why THEY fight by the end of the series. oh, and can we get a pool going for a spinoff? ;D
Didn't buy the whole Spike doesn't speak Nazi, bit. He's already shown on BtVS that he's a master of more than one language. fanwank: Spikey was just hungry and snarky?
Agree with Dev: Angel should've hired Spike (and Gwen) to beef up the security.
Did think Spike's warm welcome to Angel was uncanon. Based on the stories we've seen, Spike has every reason to be suspicious...I mean: "Where DID you go after Romania? Darla drove us crazy!!" and such, would have been more likely, no? And not a question about Dru?
Again: "You don't win a war by doing whatever it takes. You win a war by doing what's right." Shades of Buffy (LMPTM) telling Giles you can't fight evil with evil.
Yet again: "Or does everyone you sired feel this way?" Shades of Connor.
Much better show than one would think at first glance - lots there "under the surface". Goddess, I will miss this show. Nobody does it better.
Thanks again for a great review, Nan. "Over and..like, out."
Nobody tells a story better than Joss. I hope he'll stay around for a good long time. And not "over and out" - not yet!
Jenny/The First: Hmm. You think you can fight me? I'm not a demon, little girl. I am something that you can't even conceive. The First Evil. Beyond sin, beyond death. I am the thing the darkness fears. You'll never see me, but I am everywhere. Every being, every thought, every drop of hate.
BUFFY: (loses her patience) Alright, I get it. You're evil. Do we have to chat about it all day?
I've been away (and then in denial and then in a deep squiggly grey funk) and so have been delayed in reading your analysis. The episode didn't involve me as much as I had hoped. Your analysis, on the other hand, gave me many a hmmm... moment. Everyone else has already pointed out the things upon which I would have commented, so I will just say "Thank You" for another wonderful analysis.
I will mention, however, as others have before me, that I will miss your analyses when the show is over -- although I hope that THAT will be two years from now... denial or determination?
Linda, who enjoyed the muppet episode more than a "wee" bit more than this one.
I've re-watched this episode this weekend ('cause of the dreaded Whedon withdrawls). It is not my favorite, but I had a couple of random thoughts. I apologize if I am repeating someone else's thoughts, but I don't remember seeing them earlier & I have avoided the main board this week because I still haven't seen 5.16 yet and I am attempting to remain spoiler-free this year.
Random thought #1: When Sam Lawson is trying to fix the engine, he stops to look for a screwdriver. It is missing from the tool box. It is this same screwdriver that is used to kill him. So: It is the thing that is missing from your life that can be used as a weapon for your destruction. Relevant to the whole Connor mindwipe issue, especially in light of A Hole in the World. Also, since Sam was credibly used as a Connor stand-in for this episode, I was wondering: has anything gone wrong in Connor's life? With his entire childhood missing (or a lie as the case may be), can Connor be truly happy? Or was Angel's entire sin/sacrifice in vain?
Random thought #2: Why did Angel allow himself to get chained and dropped onto the sub in the first place? I have faith that Angel, had he really wanted to, would have gotten away from the military guys between the apartment scene and the ocean voyage. Did Angel go along with them to save Spike? There was a moment in the apartment scene when Angel shows a reaction upon reading the top secret report about the sub's cargo. Was Spike's name specifically listed?
If this is true, then the underlying theme of the episode: Why do we fight? For family.
Feel free to debunk these thoughts. I haven't watched this episode as many times as some of the others. But I thought they were worth noting, if I am on the right track.
Linda, who was desperate for some S3 posting this weekend, but HAD to stay away from the main board.
Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Mar 7, 2004 19:56:51 GMT -5
Your idea of Angel knowing Spike, specifically, was on the sub is a new one to me, Linda. I'll have to go back and watch the scene and see if The Great Stone Face shows any surprise when Angel sees Spike or if there's anything to suggest he knew beforehand that Spike was apt to be there.
It's certainly possible, but entirely conjectural: there's nothing, I believe, in the episode to support it, although there's nothing that I know of to rule it out, either.
I agree with your idea of Lawson as a Connor surrogate, but he's much closer, here, to a Spike surrogate. Angel is Spike's ultimate sire (leaving Dru aside for the moment), and Lawson's direct sire; Lawson and Spike are forced off the sub together, in the same circumstances. Neither has any use for the Nazis, though probably for different reasons. So I think the parallel here is overtly with Spike, although the parallel to Connor is certainly implied, given what we know about Angel's affections and relationships.