|
Post by SpringSummers on Aug 9, 2004 5:33:48 GMT -5
I can see the points you're making here, and they are valid. While I give Xander all the credit in the world for being far more intelligent than anyone realizes, I'd be more inclined to say Xander SENSED it than intellectually processed it. Xander's great gift has always been emotional perception. Also in fairness to Buffy, he had issues of his own at that moment, mainly with Buffy's seeming lack of real emotion over his injury. Now, we as an audience know that Buffy is devastated, and fiercely protective of him in her confrontation with Caleb at the school. In her mind, however, she can't allow anyone - even those she trusts most - to see her showing weakness. Xander just needed to know she cared. Now, he probably should have just accepted it as a given - he knows as well as anyone how much stress she is under, and how much Buffy loves him - but in this case, he was weakened and hurt. He needed to lean on her a little, and Buffy didn't have it in her to give him that right then. I don't blame her for that...it's just how things were. An analogy can be drawn between his actions in "Empty Places" and the oft-discussed "Becoming Part II." Let's look at how Xander is of two minds in both situations: 1. In "Becoming" he doesn't inform Buffy of Willow's intentions, partially because he instinctively realizes Buffy will lose any sort of fight in which she isn't going all out. "Becoming Part 1" makes it pretty clear Angelus would have killed her if her "heart was just not in this." On the other hand, his jealousy and hatred toward Angel cannot be ignored, and clearly played a role in his decision. It can be said he did the right thing with some very wrong reasons swirling through his mind. Yes -well put about Becoming Part 2. I do think Xander did the right thing - with, as you suggest above, both the right and wrong reasons swirling through his mind. Xander was actually never wrong about Angel or Spike, I don't think. Some of his underlying reasons for some of his actions and opinons weren't always the most noble, but in that imperfection, he joins the rest of the characters (not to mention, all of humanity). Interesting theory there - I mean, that Xander siding with "the opposition" in telling Buffy she had to go, is related to a feeling that Buffy hasn't given his injury and loss enough import. I had not really thought of that, but it makes sense, and fits in well with what they are all (right or wrong) feeling at that moment: Buffy doesn't care or appreciate the sacrifices they've made, or gravity of what she's asking them to do. Yes - the Season was very much about Buffy "taking off the blinders" in several different ways, and that was one of them.
|
|
|
Post by Lissa on Aug 12, 2004 4:19:20 GMT -5
Yes -well put about Becoming Part 2. I do think Xander did the right thing - with, as you suggest above, both the right and wrong reasons swirling through his mind. Xander was actually never wrong about Angel or Spike, I don't think. Some of his underlying reasons for some of his actions and opinons weren't always the most noble, but in that imperfection, he joins the rest of the characters (not to mention, all of humanity). Spring and Rob. I don't disagree with both your theories on Becoming II. Although I would like to point out one thing: Willow. He lied to Buffy, but he betrayed Willow's trust. Now, S2Buffy doesn't mean as much as she does to him in S6 or S7. But, Willow did. Especially in the same episode as he had confessed his love for her. He simply needs her. (Just like he came back in S6). This is a factor which should not be forgotten in mixture of his feelings at that moment. Probably the most important one. And risking the lie is risking his friendship with Willow. Sure feelings of jealousy would have been a part of his thoughts, but would he risk his friendship with Willow over him?
|
|
|
Post by Lissa on Aug 12, 2004 4:29:15 GMT -5
Xander's great gift has always been emotional perception. Xander just needed to know she cared. I agree totally with you that Xander's gift is emotional perception. However, for someone who has lived with Buffy for more than six years, I would say, both statements are not in agreement with each other. It would be more that he is disappointed in that she didn't show it. Not even to him.
|
|
|
Post by Lissa on Aug 12, 2004 4:48:44 GMT -5
In short, during a crucial moment, Xander was again of two minds. There are different kinds of strength, and Buffy needed to learn to respect them for what they are. Two episodes later, she finally tells him just how much he means to her...and it was long overdue. I do understand what you are saying, I can see that Xander was conflicted in his emotions. But, still, I have my questions about if it was all that two-sided. (The same as with Becoming II). This is directly related to Potential, where he told Dawn that Buffy (and all of them) would never fully understand how hard it is for the rest of them. For the ones who are not standing in the spotlight. Buffy tells her how important he has been to her which is true. But, did she see that he would have to leave his best friends behind. Willow, Giles and last but not least: Anya. It doesn't matter if it was over not over between the two of them, it was still inconsiderate. Don't forget, at that moment Buffy thought that there would be a big war coming. She had decided to have Spike at her side, Angel in LA as backup and Xander taking care of Dawn. She understood that the price of acting like a Private Ryan is high, but did she understand that he also had to leave everybody else he cares about behind, in battle. IMO she doesn't and never will. And she will also never understand that you can still contribute in the fight without physical powers. That precisely the reasons why Dawn tazered him and went back.
|
|
|
Post by Lissa on Aug 12, 2004 4:57:06 GMT -5
Xander was actually never wrong about Angel or Spike, I don't think. Some of his underlying reasons for some of his actions and opinons weren't always the most noble, but in that imperfection, he joins the rest of the characters (not to mention, all of humanity). Spring, that's very true. And that's also why the show is so great. And also, without that imperfection they wouldn't have come so far as they did.
|
|
|
Post by Rob on Aug 13, 2004 0:07:54 GMT -5
I agree totally with you that Xander's gift is emotional perception. However, for someone who has lived with Buffy for more than six years, I would say, both statements are not in agreement with each other. It would be more that he is disappointed in that she didn't show it. Not even to him. Actually, those statements you list above illustrate just how bad things had gotten by "Empty Places." Buffy had become so good at keeping her own emotions private and below the surface, even Xander couldn't "see" her any more...which, of course, was the perfect metaphor for the partial loss of sight.
|
|
|
Post by Rob on Aug 13, 2004 0:59:15 GMT -5
I do understand what you are saying, I can see that Xander was conflicted in his emotions. But, still, I have my questions about if it was all that two-sided. (The same as with Becoming II). This is directly related to Potential, where he told Dawn that Buffy (and all of them) would never fully understand how hard it is for the rest of them. For the ones who are not standing in the spotlight. Buffy tells her how important he has been to her which is true. But, did she see that he would have to leave his best friends behind. Willow, Giles and last but not least: Anya. It doesn't matter if it was over not over between the two of them, it was still inconsiderate. Don't forget, at that moment Buffy thought that there would be a big war coming. She had decided to have Spike at her side, Angel in LA as backup and Xander taking care of Dawn. She understood that the price of acting like a Private Ryan is high, but did she understand that he also had to leave everybody else he cares about behind, in battle. IMO she doesn't and never will. And she will also never understand that you can still contribute in the fight without physical powers. That precisely the reasons why Dawn tazered him and went back. I think she understood perfectly how Xander would feel about leaving everyone behind. Here are the reasons in my view. 1. I believe she at least partially felt he had sacrificed enough, and it's hard to argue with that. 2. I also believe she had complete faith that he would do whatever she asked. No matter how inconvenient, Xander was always there for Buffy, whether that meant taking them all into his basement in Season 4 or taking Spike back into his home in Season 7. 3. This is the key point: There were several people in Fort Summers who were inferior fighters with two working eyes: almost every Potential (at that time), Andrew, Anya...from a battle standpoint, they were far more expendable. Still, she chose Xander. Why? Well...I take the statement that she trusts him with her life at face value. Dawn is the single most important person to Buffy, and only Xander will do for this particular mission. Even when Dawn turned them around, at the final battle Buffy again specifically ordered Xander to fight at Dawn's side. Not Wood or Giles (who WERE better fighters), but Xander. The reason is simple: Xander has proven over and over he would die for the women he cares about. His contributions over the years weren't always flashy (hence the lack of real recognition from Buffy OR Giles), but he made up for it with unflagging dedication. The man simply never wavered. Ever. Just as Buffy said, he was her strength, and the single biggest reason she'd made it that far. I'm certain Buffy knew perfectly well how much Xander would hate to leave them all behind...but she also knew he was the only choice from her perspective. Aside from Buffy herself, Xander is the one person on Earth she'd completely trust with Dawn's well-being. That doesn't sound like the words and actions of someone who doesn't understand him. It sounds like the actions of someone who treasures him for who he is. In fact, the very point of that "End of Days" scene was to illustrate Buffy's belated understanding of his importance. Xander was right in "Potential." Buffy DIDN'T really see him...she took him for granted. No question about it. In "End of Days," Buffy corrects that error as best she can. In short, I have to respectfully disagree with your impression of Buffy here, Lissa. I tend to look at her in a much more forgiving light.
|
|
|
Post by Lissa on Aug 13, 2004 3:11:49 GMT -5
Actually, those statements you list above illustrate just how bad things had gotten by "Empty Places." Buffy had become so good at keeping her own emotions private and below the surface, even Xander couldn't "see" her any more...which, of course, was the perfect metaphor for the partial loss of sight. You have me convinced, Rob And what he said to Buffy makes full sense now.
|
|
|
Post by Lissa on Aug 13, 2004 4:03:16 GMT -5
Even when Dawn turned them around, at the final battle Buffy again specifically ordered Xander to fight at Dawn's side. Not Wood or Giles (who WERE better fighters), but Xander. The reason is simple: Xander has proven over and over he would die for the women he cares about. His contributions over the years weren't always flashy (hence the lack of real recognition from Buffy OR Giles), but he made up for it with unflagging dedication. The man simply never wavered. Ever. Just as Buffy said, he was her strength, and the single biggest reason she'd made it that far. In fact, the very point of that "End of Days" scene was to illustrate Buffy's belated understanding of his importance. Xander was right in "Potential." Buffy DIDN'T really see him...she took him for granted. No question about it. In "End of Days," Buffy corrects that error as best she can. In short, I have to respectfully disagree with your impression of Buffy here, Lissa. I tend to look at her in a much more forgiving light. You still don't have me convinced, Rob. Actually you have made it worse on another point, which I'll explain below. First I want to make some points. I agree with you with the reasons why she choose Xander. Actually, Xander isn't that bad at fighting at all. In the vineyard scene he first shoot a bringer in the arm with a mastershot, saving Rona. Then he beat a bringer down with one single punsh. (Yeah, I have watched the vineyard scene many times, but that was because I was first faced with a 'sensored' version and later with the real one.) (It's interesting to see that he valued Rona's live above killing Caleb at that moment.) And later with Dawn, they actually kicked (well, mostly Dawn), ubervamps. (Giles, Wood only bringers). I agree with you, and also Spring, that she did it to 'correct' herself. But, for the outside world and maybe even in Xander's mind, this could still be seen as an act of not seeing his value or respect him. (It sure didn't for Dawn). Why? Why, if she thinks he's of such a value, does she keep him and Dawn out of the fight in the first place? She wants to keep Dawn and maybe Xander out of the fight for her own reasons. (Don't forget, she has wanted Xander to be out of the fight before.) And with that she ignored Xander or Dawn's wishes on their free choice. That's VERY wrong. She is denying them what had been denied to her.
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Aug 13, 2004 13:04:46 GMT -5
Buffy loves Dawn and Xander. She wants to protect Dawn because she loves her very much and she has a very maternal, protective feel toward Dawn.
In choosing Xander to protect Dawn, she shows her strong faith in Xander's strength and loyalty and maturity. I believe she also may feel that he has sacrificed enough, and wants to protect him as well. Not as in "putting him out to pasture" but as in "giving him a well-earned break."
Buffy is far from perfect, but in the end, she does very well by all her friends and family.
|
|
|
Post by baunger1 on Oct 2, 2011 17:53:50 GMT -5
Hi Spring!
I just re-watched The Replacement, and re-read your analysis, and had to comment, because your analysis is extraordinary. The parallels that you point out between this episode and Passions are truly compelling. So thank you for that.
One of the most interesting themes in BtVS (for me) is identity -- the formation of it, through a combination of innate characteristics, circumstances, and choices; and the need to integrate the different parts of one's identity in order to become a healthy, whole person (as you point out). And of course, this episode is extremely explicit in dealing with those ideas. I feel like this episode and Fool For Love are companion pieces, in a way -- the Replacement exploring how integration occurs, or at least begins, through acknowledging and accepting all the parts of oneself , and Fool For Love demonstrating, step by step, how an identity is created in someone who has not yet achieved integration.
I also love the candles and pretense idea -- casting light, and avoiding what it reveals. So relevant to Spike here. He has both a light, and a mannequin of Buffy. Light, and Buffy, found by him in the exact same place. And the absence of light allows him to maintain what will be revealed as a pretense in terms of his feelings about Buffy. Not for much longer, though!
Anyway, thank you again for your wonderful and thought-provoking work.
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Oct 8, 2011 19:30:23 GMT -5
Hi Spring! I just re-watched The Replacement, and re-read your analysis, and had to comment, because your analysis is extraordinary. The parallels that you point out between this episode and Passions are truly compelling. So thank you for that. One of the most interesting themes in BtVS (for me) is identity -- the formation of it, through a combination of innate characteristics, circumstances, and choices; and the need to integrate the different parts of one's identity in order to become a healthy, whole person (as you point out). And of course, this episode is extremely explicit in dealing with those ideas. I feel like this episode and Fool For Love are companion pieces, in a way -- the Replacement exploring how integration occurs, or at least begins, through acknowledging and accepting all the parts of oneself , and Fool For Love demonstrating, step by step, how an identity is created in someone who has not yet achieved integration. I also love the candles and pretense idea -- casting light, and avoiding what it reveals. So relevant to Spike here. He has both a light, and a mannequin of Buffy. Light, and Buffy, found by him in the exact same place. And the absence of light allows him to maintain what will be revealed as a pretense in terms of his feelings about Buffy. Not for much longer, though! Anyway, thank you again for your wonderful and thought-provoking work. Baunger! Sorry it took so long to respond - have been busy and off the board for a few days. I will always remember analyzing The Replacement, because it was one that had such a clear, memorable "ah-ha!" moment for me, when I realized all the deliberate references to Passions. Yes, I agree that the season built upon that "identity" idea taking us up to watching Spike building his identity in Fool for Love. Love the observation of Spike finding "light and Buffy" in the same place. Thanks for the feedback.
|
|