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Post by Nickim on Oct 1, 2003 22:03:09 GMT -5
It was funny, but got funnier as Wes expressed his concern that bad feng shui might cause him to ignite. Especially in that particular building.
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Post by raenstorm on Oct 1, 2003 22:03:33 GMT -5
I thought it was a great moment when Angel bites the apple – yes, he was doing it as an “in your face” gesture to Eve, but I think it was also highly symbolic. One of the interpretations of the Garden of Eden story (and, if I remember my Milton correctly, also of Paradise Lost) is that the great sin of Adam and Eve was the desire to be like gods – it was the desire for knowledge, to acquire the knowledge of good and evil, that led to the fall from paradise. Angel and the FG have been handed the reins to W&H – L.A. They are offered the opportunity to “gain knowledge of good and evil” – and Angel symbolically accepts it by biting the apple. Does this mean that Angel is going to fall from grace again this season? We have to wait and see. “Mercy is stronger than conviction” – but does Angel show mercy? No. Is this already the start of his fall?
Laura, I'm right there with you on the apple biting scene. And, I do think it has great significance on how this season will play out for Angel. Ahh, Joss and his power themes. He does love them. I think we saw several (if not all) of our FG lose a little of themselves to the 'power' this week. It will be interesting if we continue to see that trend.
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Oct 1, 2003 22:04:20 GMT -5
<snip> Who sent the amulet to L.A.? Blondie Bear was a big pile of dust – a buried big pile of dust, no less. How did he get mailed to Angel? Plus, Wesley didn’t know Spike – Wesley didn’t come to Sunnydale until S3, post-“Lover’s Walk” – and Spike’s only visits to L.A. preceded Wesley’s arrival there. So how could Wesley recognize him? <snip>
Hadn't considered that about Wesley not knowing Spike, but you're right -- they never met. As for who sent the amulet to Angel, hopefully we'll learn that this season. I'm not surprised the amulet came back to Wolfram & Hart since it originated there, perhaps it came to Angel since he was supposed to wear it. I'm figuring otherworldly forces at work in the return of the amulet. What struck me odd was why Angel would for some inexplicable reason decide to open the envelope he'd been ignoring the whole episode in the middle of a meeting when he had no idea the contents. Who opens random mail during meetings? When has Angel ever done that before?
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Oct 1, 2003 22:05:29 GMT -5
But, didn't Wesley cut off Lilah's head? Course, death is NO problem for W&H or ME. Maybe the actress wanted out or the actress playing Eve makes less money--budget cut & all. Though, if they really wanted to keep the budget down, why have a premise that requires all those extras and new sets. Lilah was quite dead, but not dead enough to be kept from being in two episodes at the end of last season.
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Post by raenstorm on Oct 1, 2003 22:08:38 GMT -5
Hadn't considered that about Wesley not knowing Spike, but you're right -- they never met. As for who sent the amulet to Angel, hopefully we'll learn that this season. I'm not surprised the amulet came back to Wolfram & Hart since it originated there, perhaps it came to Angel since he was supposed to wear it. I'm figuring otherworldly forces at work in the return of the amulet. What struck me odd was why Angel would for some inexplicable reason decide to open the envelope he'd been ignoring the whole episode in the middle of a meeting when he had no idea the contents. Who opens random mail during meetings? When has Angel ever done that before? Well, wait, let's be fair... we saw Angel do a lot tonight that we don't usually see him do (the whole spanking a guy thing is just stuck in my head! -- ok, that SO came out wrong). As for Wesley knowing Spike... it is odd but I have to say that it's a pretty safe bet that he knows about Spike and, as long as he had a description of him, it wouldn't be hard to figure out who had suddenly appeared before him. Plus, Angel said it first. Wesley could have just been echoing it because he knows of Spike's rep and, likely, new soul status.
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Post by makd on Oct 1, 2003 22:10:32 GMT -5
Before I can comment on the episode overall, I have to get something out there... I'm a little concerned about Angel. Apparently losing Buffy to her cookie dough, watching Connor with his perfect family, and taking over W&H is changing him more than I expected! First he admits to not having a problem spanking men... Then, when he was called a "little fairy" all he had to say was "I'm not little". And here I thought Lorne was the fairy in this group.... Joss is just stoking the fires of fanfic!! ;D
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Post by raenstorm on Oct 1, 2003 22:10:54 GMT -5
'Night all. As much as I'd like to stick around and wait for others to see the ep and share their thoughts, I fear I will turn into a big pile of dust if I stay up much longer. So, I'll take my blondey bear and head off to bed
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Post by Nickim on Oct 1, 2003 22:11:43 GMT -5
Well, wait, let's be fair... we saw Angel do a lot tonight that we don't usually see him do (the whole spanking a guy thing is just stuck in my head! -- ok, that SO came out wrong). As for Wesley knowing Spike... it is odd but I have to say that it's a pretty safe bet that he knows about Spike and, as long as he had a description of him, it wouldn't be hard to figure out who had suddenly appeared before him. Plus, Angel said it first. Wesley could have just been echoing it because he knows of Spike's rep and, likely, new soul status. As a Watcher, Wesley would have read about Spike, just like Giles had. In fact, he may have known that Angel gave Buffy the amulet, though we don't know if anyone told Angel that Spike used it. Wish there would have been some reference to Sunnydale disappearing from the face of the earth.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Oct 1, 2003 22:12:46 GMT -5
Well, wait, let's be fair... we saw Angel do a lot tonight that we don't usually see him do (the whole spanking a guy thing is just stuck in my head! -- ok, that SO came out wrong). As for Wesley knowing Spike... it is odd but I have to say that it's a pretty safe bet that he knows about Spike and, as long as he had a description of him, it wouldn't be hard to figure out who had suddenly appeared before him. Plus, Angel said it first. Wesley could have just been echoing it because he knows of Spike's rep and, likely, new soul status. Nope, Angel said it second. [/color]
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Post by raenstorm on Oct 1, 2003 22:12:58 GMT -5
Joss is just stoking the fires of fanfic!! ;D Oh, one more thing before I go. I was glad to hear that he's "not little". I know that Betsy kept assuring me this was the case but me of little faith had to hear it from Angel before I'd believe it. *grins* And, on that thought, it's off to bed with me!
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Oct 1, 2003 22:13:11 GMT -5
Well, wait, let's be fair... we saw Angel do a lot tonight that we don't usually see him do (the whole spanking a guy thing is just stuck in my head! -- ok, that SO came out wrong). As for Wesley knowing Spike... it is odd but I have to say that it's a pretty safe bet that he knows about Spike and, as long as he had a description of him, it wouldn't be hard to figure out who had suddenly appeared before him. Plus, Angel said it first. Wesley could have just been echoing it because he knows of Spike's rep and, likely, new soul status. Wesley spoke first. Angel echoed with the disdain in his voice.
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Post by raenstorm on Oct 1, 2003 22:13:35 GMT -5
Nope, Angel said it second. [/color] [/quote] 'kay. I stand corrected. Thanks Nan. (And Dave )
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Post by DaveCrenshaw on Oct 1, 2003 22:16:37 GMT -5
As a Watcher, Wesley would have read about Spike, just like Giles had. In fact, he may have known that Angel gave Buffy the amulet, though we don't know if anyone told Angel that Spike used it. Wish there would have been some reference to Sunnydale disappearing from the face of the earth. Wesley could have very well read about Spike, but that doesn't mean Wesley would ever have a clue what Spike looked like -- even if he did, Spike's appearance didn't at all speak "vampire", so why automatically assume that it truly was a vampire, and that particular vampire. Giles had read the Watchers' diaries, but he still didn't know that Angel was in reality Angelus. And he didn't know it was Spike until Spike introduced himself to Buffy -- then he looked up the reputation of the vampire who went by that name. There's no reason that Wesley could have known that it was Spike at that very moment.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 1, 2003 22:16:54 GMT -5
Well, wait, let's be fair... we saw Angel do a lot tonight that we don't usually see him do (the whole spanking a guy thing is just stuck in my head! -- ok, that SO came out wrong). As for Wesley knowing Spike... it is odd but I have to say that it's a pretty safe bet that he knows about Spike and, as long as he had a description of him, it wouldn't be hard to figure out who had suddenly appeared before him. Plus, Angel said it first. Wesley could have just been echoing it because he knows of Spike's rep and, likely, new soul status. Maybe Willow told him while they were chatting about souled vampires last Spring. I think Wesley said it before Angel though. I loved the 'Blondie Bear' comment!
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 1, 2003 22:17:27 GMT -5
Especially in that particular building. Nicki, is that a new avatar? It's really beautiful!
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