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Post by missbuffy on Oct 17, 2003 15:54:29 GMT -5
I am techno-bot! You may IM me directly. HA! I was wondering when somebody was going to respond with that. ;D
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Post by Karen on Oct 17, 2003 16:01:34 GMT -5
I haven't had internet access at home since Monday nite, so my only access has been here at work, and I was out yesterday with a trip to the beloved dentist (just kidding about the beloved part). Any way, Rae suggested I post my replies over here since she was shutting down the last thread. So my next few posts are being copied over. Hoping I have internet access when I get home tonite. Was going crazy at home at not being able to get online. Hi Betsy! How is your tooth? Were they able to repair it without a root canal? I'm feeling all kinds of sympathy for ya! I hate going to the dentist.
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Post by Betsy on Oct 17, 2003 16:01:59 GMT -5
I like that despite the fact this is not supposed to be a 'big-arc' season, it is really turning out to be a many arc season. ;D I agree MissBuffy . . .it's like this season with be our standard "Monster of the Week" (which I like), plus lots of mini-arcs between all the different characters and how they deal with their new surroundings and the new perils and temptations they will be facing.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 17, 2003 16:02:17 GMT -5
Please look again....it should be available to you. PattiT put it on her site. Like she said....if you haven't had problems seeing any of the other pictures I have posted, you shouldn't have trouble with this one. Maybe you just looked before I got it up there? Try again.
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Post by Betsy on Oct 17, 2003 16:03:32 GMT -5
Hi Betsy! How is your tooth? Were they able to repair it without a root canal? I'm feeling all kinds of sympathy for ya! I hate going to the dentist. Hi Sandy, yes for now they just put a temporary crown on it. I get the permanent one in 2 weeks. But the dentist is worried that I have had no sensitivity to hot/cold at all. I broke away a large chunk of the tooth. We'll just have to watch it, but by the exrays,the root looks fine.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 17, 2003 16:05:30 GMT -5
Please look again....it should be available to you. PattiT put it on her site. Nope, just some nice white space. I can see eg's avatar, and her picture title, but that's it. It'll have to exist in my memory, fondly... Bye the way, I like your avatar, Techno-bot. It's really... chipper. And I have to go pick Kitty up from school. Bye, all!
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Post by Betsy on Oct 17, 2003 16:13:12 GMT -5
Just put the thread up for this episode that we are viewing tonite. I quite liked this episode and found it quite amusing. Can't wait to read everyone's take on it. Hoping I'll be able to post on this one, assuming my access is back when I get home otnite.
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Post by Karen on Oct 17, 2003 16:16:11 GMT -5
I like that despite the fact this is not supposed to be a 'big-arc' season, it is really turning out to be a many arc season. ;D We have the overall WHY did W&H give them the firm, I believe corruption will be a season long arc as well, and I think all the FG realtionships are turning out to be another overall season arc. Then we have the slightly smaller what's with Spike and how to save him arc, now we also have a werewolf girl arc that will jump back in from time to time (I assume), and a weekly monster of the week. So many layers, it's great! I agree, we may have a monster of the week, but we aren't being disappointed by the underlying arcs of redemption and salvation. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is all the references that Angel made in this episode to keeping people *safe* and *being safe* (correct me if I'm wrong, or I've missed it). To keeping the *monster* under control, and the question of the individual's choice in doing just that. Angel is all about protection. Protecting the wwg from herself by helping her come to terms with the monster within her, protecting his "family" - keeping them safe from the prying eyes of W&H. It was all about being safe. Not an easy thing to accomplish, as Spike had said about the wwg - "she's in the killed or be killed club, now".
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Oct 17, 2003 16:27:01 GMT -5
I am techno-bot! You may IM me directly. Now WE have a spook on our board! And not nearly as pretty as Spike! [/color]
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Post by John G on Oct 17, 2003 16:43:01 GMT -5
Kerrie has engaged in an interesting debate in the off-topic thread. Would be nice to get different opinions.
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Post by deborah on Oct 17, 2003 16:43:09 GMT -5
2. Interesting quote from Angel: "Vampires ....can control themselves...if they want to." (Now, he had just explained to Nina that he was a vampire...with a soul, (in response to her asking if he was a Frankenstein--he was offended) and he was reassuring her). Still, interesting. I assume vampires only want to control themselves if they have a soul, or a chip, or are in love with the Slayer. <snip> Sue, you said that you assume "vampires only want to control themselves if they have a soul, or a chip, or are in love with the Slayer. " Well, ensouled Angel was in love with Buffy but after he lost his soul his love turned into a twisted obsession that fueled his compulsion to torment her and hers. And despite Angel's love for Buffy, Angelus showed no signs of even trying to control himself for the sake of the love he'd formely felt. On the contrary, Angelus hated Buffy because the love he'd felt for her had made him feel human. Angel's assertion that vampires (souless excepting himself and Spike) can choose to control themselves was a rather earth shaking revelation, considering the source. Was Angel actually admitting that he could have stopped himself from doing evil during the times he had lost his soul? But of course, no reason he couldn't have stopped himself had he wanted to. It's the wanting part that's the stickler in that logic. What could have possibly motivated humanity-free (remember The Judge) Angelus to give up evil? Had he been chipped like Spike he would have been constrained from directly harming humans but not by choice. He was apparently incapable of feeling love in his unsouled state so without any motivation to modify his behavior in order to please a loved one. What then could have motivated Angelus, and by extrapolation vampires in general, to want to control their evil? I was stunned to hear Angel make such an assertion to Nina but didn't write it down and then forgot about it. I mean, it's one thing to apply this claim to an ensouled vampire but they (all two of them) are the exception, not the rule. Now that you have reminded me of it (and I think I have seen Mary mention it as well) I believe it will turn out to be significant as the season progresses. At least one person has suggested that this season will show Angel working towards embracing and integrating his dark side (Angelus). If this is true I wonder if Angel's assertion that vampires can choose to control themselves will bear any connection with the two sides being integrated. Also, what, if any impact would such an integration have on him if he were to lose his soul again? If an ensouled Angel who has successfully (as has Spike) integrated his demon and humanity were to lose his soul again, would he finally retain some of his humanity in his souless state? My thoughts on this question are pretty murky and I'd appreciate your thoughts. BTW, I'm only up to page 25 on Part 54 so excuse me if this has already been addressed and discussed. If so, I will look forward to feeling very foolish and embarrassed once I've finally caught up.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 17, 2003 16:57:59 GMT -5
Nope, just some nice white space. I can see eg's avatar, and her picture title, but that's it. It'll have to exist in my memory, fondly... Bye the way, I like your avatar, Techno-bot. It's really... chipper. And I have to go pick Kitty up from school. Bye, all! Anne, would you tell me if you can see sandyshores and John's nominated pictures? They are also being hosted on my site. If you can see them, but not this new one, I'll be even more puzzled. Is there anyone else who can not see eg's nomination now?
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Post by Karen on Oct 17, 2003 16:59:24 GMT -5
Sue, you said that you assume "vampires only want to control themselves if they have a soul, or a chip, or are in love with the Slayer. " Well, ensouled Angel was in love with Buffy but after he lost his soul his love turned into a twisted obsession that fueled his compulsion to torment her and hers. And despite Angel's love for Buffy, Angelus showed no signs of even trying to control himself for the sake of the love he'd formely felt. On the contrary, Angelus hated Buffy because the love he'd felt for her had made him feel human. Angel's assertion that vampires (souless excepting himself and Spike) can choose to control themselves was a rather earth shaking revelation, considering the source. Was Angel actually admitting that he could have stopped himself from doing evil during the times he had lost his soul? But of course, no reason he couldn't have stopped himself had he wanted to. It's the wanting part that's the stickler in that logic. What could have possibly motivated humanity-free (remember The Judge) Angelus to give up evil? Had he been chipped like Spike he would have been constrained from directly harming humans but not by choice. He was apparently incapable of feeling love in his unsouled state so without any motivation to modify his behavior in order to please a loved one. What then could have motivated Angelus, and by extrapolation vampires in general, to want to control their evil? I was stunned to hear Angel make such an assertion to Nina but didn't write it down and then forgot about it. I mean, it's one thing to apply this claim to an ensouled vampire but they (all two of them) are the exception, not the rule. Now that you have reminded me of it (and I think I have seen Mary mention it as well) I believe it will turn out to be significant as the season progresses. At least one person has suggested that this season will show Angel working towards embracing and integrating his dark side (Angelus). If this is true I wonder if Angel's assertion that vampires can choose to control themselves will bear any connection with the two sides being integrated. Also, what, if any impact would such an integration have on him if he were to lose his soul again? If an ensouled Angel who has successfully (as has Spike) integrated his demon and humanity were to lose his soul again, would he finally retain some of his humanity in his souless state? My thoughts on this question are pretty murky and I'd appreciate your thoughts. BTW, I'm only up to page 25 on Part 54 so excuse me if this has already been addressed and discussed. If so, I will look forward to feeling very foolish and embarrassed once I've finally caught up. Thanks for bringing this up, deborah. I was also surprised to hear Angel's 'confession' that vampires can control themselves, if they want to. And I agree it will be a big part of this season's arc. He also said something similar in regards to the werewolf that he killed. That it looked like the ww (from the lack of killings reported) tried to control it at first, but then gave in to the evil. (not exact words here)
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Post by Sue on Oct 17, 2003 17:00:14 GMT -5
I am techno-bot! You may IM me directly. Why do I have the overwhelming feeling that Techno-bot is the creation of one of our male technopagans? Maybe he (Vlad or Dave?) was jealous of Rob's relationship with Faith and decided to build find a relationship of his own. Given that Vlad already has at least one other alter-ego, I'm gonna vote Dave.
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Post by Sue on Oct 17, 2003 17:05:41 GMT -5
Speaking of Spike's history with Angel.
Is Angel aware that Spike helped save the world waaaaay back in season 2 by aligning himself with Buffy to take down Angelus?
Of course the deep down submerged little bits of Angelus would consider this another huge reason to hate Spike.
But, really, shouldn't Angel be grateful to Spike for helping Buffy to send Angelus to hell, thereby saving both her and the world?
Or is he not aware of Spike's roll?
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