|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 22:45:18 GMT -5
I would like to point out that wearing clothing or wrapping up in a blanket cannot make anyone "warmer" although it may keep them from getting colder. The reason a blanket "makes" us warmer is that it traps the body heat that we are emanating and keeps it close to our body. That way, we don't need to produce as much heat, and we feel warmer. If a vampire were to wrap up, if he or she is not producing heat the blanket would have no other effect than to slow the cooling effect of the outside air (assuming the vampire was warmer than the ambient environment).
Sorry about the semantics, but my laws of Thermodynamics are showing.
So, blankets only make a difference if there is already a temperature differential between the vampire and his/her environment. I agree, it's probably psychosomatic like the sheet I still require in the most stiffling heat.
M.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 22:49:06 GMT -5
As an Undergraduate I enjoyed Thermodynamics I (motors, the Carnot cycle, Steam generation, etc...) and less so Thermo II (theoretical equations of heat capacities.) But, I must say, never has a discussion of heat capacities and temperature gradients been so exciting as on the S'cubie board. I love this place!
P.S.: I'm guessing that unlike the singular of Scoobies which is Scooby, the singular of S'cubies, would be S'cubie ? Does that make sense, oh mighty Linguistics chair?
M.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 22:50:36 GMT -5
Yes, semantics. Water gal is completely correct in stating that vampires wouldn't be made "warmer" by use of a blanket. I do think what was meant by the posters was that they wouldn't get colder (or at least it would slow their cooling), the blanket serving as an insulator.
Now, onto another aspect. Does anyone wonder how much vamps must enjoy sleeping with a human? All that toasty good warmth generated. It's no wonder whenever we see them sleeping with a mortal, they involve blankets! For a creature that prefers it's blood meals warmed, imagine the wonderful enjoyment of a warm bed, snuggled up against a warm body, the blanket covering their torsos making the whole thing into a low-wattage Betty Crocker oven.
*coughs* Okay, nevermind. I got distracted; it is after all only 21F here at noon. *sigh*
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 22:52:10 GMT -5
Something I thought about before but forgot to mention:
Vampires are "room temperature". Okay, this makes sense. However, what happens when that room temperature drops below freezing. Not only do I imagine this must be uncomfortable for the critter, in the long term wouldn't it be incapacitating? I mean, wouldn't their body fluids finally freeze solid?
Perhaps, if this theory holds true, then we would see a higher percentage of vampires in places like California after all. Maybe it's not the siren call of the Hellmouth that's attracting them, but the WARMTH!
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 22:54:30 GMT -5
Spring said: "... I just tell myself that the Initiative had faulty equipment and that Spike temperature is always around 98.5. Otherwise, I would have to re-evaluate Spike’s assessment of what “made her scream” when he replied to Buffy’s “You’re bent” comment. Bent? Who would even notice if the temperature was 70 degrees? Yikes!!"
Faulty equipment. Yeah. That's the ticket.
I'll go along with that. Thanks. It helps.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 22:56:07 GMT -5
Water Gal said:
"I would like to point out that wearing clothing or wrapping up in a blanket cannot make anyone "warmer" although it may keep them from getting colder. The reason a blanket "makes" us warmer is that it traps the body heat that we are emanating and keeps it close to our body. That way, we don't need to produce as much heat, and we feel warmer. If a vampire were to wrap up, if he or she is not producing heat the blanket would have no other effect than to slow the cooling effect of the outside air (assuming the vampire was warmer than the ambient environment)."
Thanks. As I was writing my post about blankets and coats making sense for cold-blooded vampires the nagging thought that this actually did Not make sense kept knocking at the door of my brain trying to get my attention. I, (not Buffy) being the Queen of Denial steadfastly ignored it. But the thought that occured to me that I kept pushing aside was that the clothes, blankets, etc...can't insulate them from the cold ambient temperature because they have no warmer body temperature to be insulated.
Don't mind me, I know not of what I speak.
And Spring's solution is best.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 22:57:45 GMT -5
I like the idea of faulty equipment in the Initiative. Because that's the only episode, I think, that says that vampires are room temperature, though many episodes say they are cold. But I would be happy to think they are generally a few degrees colder than humans, because that's the demon's natural body temperature.
Another explanation I can think of is that they were feeding Spike at the time (hadn't he just escaped, and they put something in his blood that made him cold. They definitely did drug it.
Although, I've always been unclear about the timing of the Initiative. It seems like he woke up, and hadn't been there that long, and never drank any of the blood in the packets they gave him because the first time he tried, the other vampire warned him not to. In that case he was never unconscious afterwards, and soon escaped. But he must have been there quite a while, since they had to have put the chip in at some point. So did he get captured in the previous episode, stay there about a week without ever gaining consciousness, and get fed drugged blood intravenously while they operated on him or something?
Another problem I have is that it seems like he hits several people while escaping from the Initiative, and I think later from Willow's room too, so why didn't the chip fire every time?
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 22:59:00 GMT -5
Don't you think it would be interesting to learn that the chip doesn't work, at least not all the time, or maybe has, as mentioned in one recent episode, died due to the battery running down or something?
I think it would be fun to find out all this time that Spike is actually experiencing psychosomatic pain. That it was actually his conscience after all kicking in and providing him an excuse not to do bad things.
Actually, if you think about it, when Spike felt the need to actually hurt someone, he has been able to do it. Clobbering Xander to go investigate his own actions this season, and hitting Tara to prove she was human last season come to mind. All he claims to have suffered is a terrible headache htat lasted for a few hours. So perhaps this IS the case.
Also, now that Spike has his soul, and wants to be good, I think that he should still want to have that darn chip out of there. Not being able to hurt humans does kind of limit him if he is going to fight evil with our slayer and friends. Not all baddies are of the demon variety, as the Trio proved last year.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 23:00:57 GMT -5
As I made my way home today with the 2 square inches of bare skin around my eyes and the eyelash-cicles clinging thereto, I gave more thought to the vampire temperature thing and how it would relate to these Northern climes. Vlad imp made the important observation that if vampires are ambient temperature, they would eventually freeze solid. (Unless, like some ground squirels and frogs they have anti-freeze in their veins.) I am personally of the opinion that vamps must have at least some type of internal heat source, though it may not allow them to come up to 98 F. In any event, if vampires have an aversion to cold, that would explain why vampires don't spend each winter in the Arctic. Since the Arctic is plunged in to quasi-eternal darkness each winter, you would think that there would be an equivalent to vampire club Med happening North of 60 in the winter time. (There would be a mass exodus of course in April or May when the Arctic becomes the land of the midnight sun.) So I postulate that vampires do indeed have an aversion to cold.
M. the Watergal
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 23:02:41 GMT -5
I think you are right vlad, it must be pleasant for vampires to get all cozy under the blankets with a human heat source. Both William and Liam were from times when a bedwarmer was placed in the bed to make it nice and toasty before bedtime. In fact, a friend of mine swears by the campfire-warmed rock placed in the sleeping-bag method of camping. (safety note: Wrap the rock in a towel to avoid burning the occupant and/or the bag, it also keeps the rock toasty longer.)
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 23:03:51 GMT -5
I've also given more thought to the breathing question and come up with the conclusion that vampires must breath SOME of the time, although not strictly necessary for aeration. (I heard somewhere (Anne Rice?) that vampires breath out of habit.)
Anyway, back to the point. I think that, in order to digest (?metabolize?) the blood they take in, vamps would need to take in some air. (Of course this does lead to the sticky question of heart beats.) Aerobic metabolism requires oxygen, so unless they are taking it in through their skin, they've got to breath at least a little after eating. (Or maybe they just swallow the air along with their meal ?)
So, I've come to the tentative conclusion that vampires breath (swallow?) air after taking their meal, and they produce (a little) heat while metabolizing their lunch. (Which would bring them above room temperature as long as they kept well fed and bundled up between meals.) And maybe they don't breathe per se, but they do seem to take air in and out of their lungs.
And that's the Buffyverse as I see it this afternoon. Feel free to disagree or agree loudly, I look forward to hearing from you all.
Micha
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 23:05:28 GMT -5
I think if the person I was having sex with was almost as cold as a popsickle I'd scream for an entirely different reason than Spike was referring to. In fact I can make my husband scream like a girl just by putting my cold feet on his legs when I get into bed at night and I'm 98.6.
I have to agree that vamps must have some temperature higher than room temp. After they feed it's probably close to 98.6 and declines from there. Obviously they might freeze solid faster than a human if left out in the cold, but being demons possibly the cold doesn't affect them. Maybe the demons part of a vamp has heat or holds the heat? Spike does say in his "It's always blood" speech that blood is important because it makes you warm and it makes you hard.This leads me to believe that they feel and like the warmth when they can get it.
Since Spike sleeps naked, a sheet or blanket might just feel safer than lying there asleep and totally exposed. I think it's a self protective instinct, especially when you think of the rodent/spider population in crypts.
S'cubies rocks! I knew somebody could do it! Yea Vlad.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 23:06:51 GMT -5
Having some extra filler time I toggled over to the Bloody Awful Poet Society Website and read an Episode Analysis on "Never Leave Me" by Sanguine whose analysis and essays I have always found interesting and insightful in the past. But this one, entitled "On Torture, Dreams and the Nature of Evil" left me a bit agitated over a couple of things she said about Spike in discussing parallels between him and Andrew this season. She refers to Spike as geeky and as having talked the talk of redemption before walking the walk. On both these counts I disagree entirely. And I'm wondering, did I mis-read her? If anyone else has the time and inclination to read it and let me know what he/she thinks I'd appreciate it. It's not too long. I started to compose an Email under their "Feedback" link but then thought I try to run it by you guys first. You can find it here: bloodyawfulpoet.com/episodes/bringr.html
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 23:08:16 GMT -5
My husband brought home some discount grade C vampire DVD made from a story by Stephen King called Night Flyer.It wasn't anywhere near as scary as Salem's Lot but was high on the ick factor. The point is the hero is in a public bathroom after finding alot of vamp victims. He's looking in the mirror and he hears someone come in. He can't see him in the mirror so he knows it's the vamp. He's too afraid to turn around but he can see in the mirror a stream of blood splash into a urinal as the vamp takes a wizz and then flushes. I thought that was an amusing effect and the flushing was awfully polite for a demon who's just eaten about 20 people.
Since Spike eats onion flowers and chicken wings and drinks alot of alcohol vamps must be capable of other body functions when they need them. I can believe the booze is just absorbed like blood, but hot chicken wings?
My theory is that the blood diet keeps a vamp's tissues and organs supple. The blood has to get from the mouth to the stomach and into circulation and that implys peristalsis of some sort, even if its just to swallow. Without muscle contraction a vamp wouldn't even be able to move. And without a head (brain, nerve impulses) or heart (circulation), they die.The lungs also help the heart circulate the blood. So at least after feeding, a vamp should have to breath to expand and contract its lungs and help circulate its meal.If the blood didn't circulate a vamps skin wouldn't look less pale as is described in many vampire stories. And, most important, no ebulgement.
Since we have a broad selection of expertise on this board, just out of curiosity, who knows what the body temp of a reptile is and how high their temp can go and still be in normal range?
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jun 26, 2003 23:09:31 GMT -5
It's an interesting idea that some of the chip induced pain is psychosomatic, although I think it's been proven that at least in times past, it was real. There were times when it both fired when he didn't expect it to, and didn't fire when he did expect it to. I'm thinking of Smashed, when he thinks the muggers are demons, and ends up with a migraine when he tries to defend Buffy against them. (pretty mighty chip, to be able to tell when something's a human when he can't). This can't be explained by him expecting the pain, and therefore getting it, or by his conscience kicking in because I'm sure that he wouldn't have felt he should have been punished for trying to protect Buffy from demons (or muggers, for that matter, as he said afterwards.)Then later in Smashed the chip doesn't fire when he hits Buffy and he fully expects it to, and probably if there's ever a time his conscience would kick it it's when he's hurting Buffy.
It's possible that this year, the chip has run down and either isn't working or isn't working as well. He does seem to have much less problems hitting people anyway and dealing with the pain, but this could also be that it's because he feels he deserves the pain now, so it doesn't upset him, or that he only hurts people now when he's really desperate and doesn't feel like he has a choice, so he just doesn't care. Or maybe shows that deep down he was always willing to accept not hurting humans, even if he never would have stopped on his own, because as soon as it stopped being physically pleasurable he pretty much stopped doing it.
I agree that the chip should come out. He's clearly gotten beyond needing it as a check, and should he need to stop a human in battle, (plenty of agents of the first out there that are human, I imagine), it could end up making the difference. Do we even know whether the bringers are human or not? Maybe Willow could magic it out for him.
|
|