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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:03:55 GMT -5
I can't wait to watch it and catch up with the lot of you. BTW thanks for the headers. Maybe I'll see it tomorrow. Watergal
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:04:18 GMT -5
// Guess it was just habit that I got upset, had to remind myself that by that point, Angel's season will have concluded and it will be a re-run (if it's on at all, haven't looked to be sure). // Just catching up but thought I'd let you know that you can safely watch the Buffy Biography. Angel isn't on at all next week as the 2-hour series finale for Dawson's Creek will be on.
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:04:45 GMT -5
I posted a few things quickly last night but was too tired to expand. So I will now. I may not mention specific quotes, but to some degree I am replying to the long posts of Miss Pamela, Patti, David, and Diane. 1. Memory Wiping. I found it strange that ME would use the same plot device twice: Season 1: Angel wishes, PTB (or was it the Oracles) wipe Buffy's memories and all those who came in contact with her. Season 4: Angel "wishes" and W&H wipe a memories of Connor and those who knew him (and leave a huge plot hole -- with no Connor how do you explain Jasmine or were the memories of 7 million Los Angelenos (?) also wiped. THAT had to take some serious mojo. And was it just memory changes or did W&H actually go back and change history? (Can they do that?) Diane asked if the people killed all season would now still be alive? 2. Memory Wiping: HYPOCRITS! Angel makes wishes twice and lots of people have their memories played with. But we are supposed to believe it was altruistic and "for their own good." Willow takes one minor memory from one person and it's "mind-rape", (of course she also does it the second time, but again on a much smaller scale). The only difference I see is that Willow got caught. Man, if Buffy ever found out that Angel played with her memories, and for her "own good", that's be the end of that fairytale romance! 3. Connor may be happy, but.....he's not longer Connor.
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:05:08 GMT -5
Last minute tie-up: I had the definite feeling last week that the Jasmine arc got tied up very quickly. Personally, I suspect that the season was a good way along when they (maybe after Firefly died, SMG announced no more Buffy, and Joss took a good look at Angel) decided to fit in the twists of this last ep. So they needed to end the season one episode early to have time for last night's developments. QUESTION: What would the others have decided if Angel hadn't pre-empted them with his executive decision? (And did he have the right to do that?) It looked like Lorne and Gunn were in, but I'm not sure about Fred and even less sure about Wes. Observation: W&H's fancy windows at least allow DB to do some of his filming during the day. GUNN AND THE PANTHER: Inquiring minds want to know. I'm going to go way out on a sci-fi limb and say that Gunn has been given some super-powers. I think he may now have an alter ego/secret identity which has some kind of panther-related (black, obviously) super abilities. I'm not sure why they would do that, but, it's just my guess. I'll probably just copy this and my other post on the Angel board when it opens up.
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:05:39 GMT -5
Thoughts on “Angel”: 1. CONNOR IS GONE!!! And the heavens rejoice!!! Hopefully this means Connor will not be part of the show next season and JM can come over instead. As much as I hate Connor, I did feel sorry for him during his scene with Angel in the mall. The kid has become so disillusioned that he can’t recognize that his father is trying to give him the one thing he craves: love and acceptance. But......oh, well - CONNOR IS GONE!!!! Like Patti, I was crying buckets during Angel’s scene with Connor at the mall and then when he was watching Connor in his new “reality” - poor Angel has to suffer the burden of being the only one to remember certain events. First Buffy and now THIS?!?! 2. Gunn and the panther - my first thought when I saw the panther (besides ”Huh?!?!”) was that Gunn will somehow become a revolutionary next season. I don’t know if this means he will turn bad or if the FG will turn bad and he’ll be the remaining “good” who has to lead a revolution against his friends. And what was up with him becoming taller?!?! Who knows? All I know is that the WB better renew this show! 3. Totally didn’t recognize Holden as the nerdy scientist guy - thanks for pointing that out! Maybe he will become a recurring character. 4. I absolutely loved last night’s episode because when it comes back next year, the show will be in a totally different direction. How will they fight for good when they received this gift of the LA branch of W&H from the Senior Partners? Will they too become corrupted? I liked the parallel here with the Buffy episode “Get It Done” - can you fight evil with evil? Buffy said no but apparently the FG do not feel the same. I think it will be interesting to see what road lies ahead for them and that is a road WITHOUT CONNOR!!! (Can you tell I’m excited he’s gone?) Overall, highly enjoyed this episode and I am anxiously awaiting WB’s announcement next week about whether they renewed “Angel” or not. -L :-)
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:06:00 GMT -5
Diane: Thank you so much for that wonderful letter to my grandmother. I have already printed it off and I'm taking it to her today (either at lunch or after work). I started crying while I was reading it and I know Grandmother is going to absolutely love it! Thank you again for all your thoughts and prayers this week! Love, Lee :-)
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:06:41 GMT -5
Sue, you make excellent points. We see that Jasmine was taking our free will and had to be stopped for "our own good" even though she offered world peace and happiness. Angel wipes our memories, and it's supposed to be okay. Y'know what? I don't buy it. It's entirely too godlike. I think W&H have already succeeded in corrupting him. HYPOCRITES Indeed! Angel's messed with memories twice now and nobody's called him on it. 'Course, given that in the Jossverse everything that goes around eventually (maybe seven seasons later) comes around, we don't know that Angel won't have a very serious piper to pay someday. It may not be a matter of "if" Buffy finds out that Angel played with her memories--it may be a matter of "WHEN!" What was that comment about his "lumpy white ass?" "Connor may be happy, but.....he's not longer Connor." Well said. No comment needed.
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:07:07 GMT -5
You're welcome. I only wrote what I felt.
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:07:26 GMT -5
Lee said: //poor Angel has to suffer the burden of being the only one to remember certain events// Sorry, Lee, no sympathy here. Angel's playing God. Willow did it to alleviate her own pain (altho she rationalized that is was to relieve Buffy's pain). Angel supposedly did it to alleviate Buffy's pain and Connor's pain. "I'm doing this for your own good." Who asked you? Angel was already in tremendous pain regarding Connor, and guilt. I think he did it to alleviate his own guilt and pain. He just traded one type of pain for another. I think Diane mentioned that this kind of stuff always has consequences and I sure hope the writers follow through on that! (Imagine a world in which every parent could rearrange either history or memories to spare his child pain. Chaos! Plus, how does the kid ever develop character. (Not saying Connor hadn't gone thru too much)).
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:07:52 GMT -5
see post title.
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:08:25 GMT -5
Sue, I think that Josh is finishing up with his end of term papers. I hope he returns soon, term should be over by now. As for Ellie, I know she sometimes gets wrapped up in something she calls real life. And for some reason, I think that might interfere with reading the 600 odd posts we have made in the last few hours. She is also wont to lurk So Ellie, if you are lurking, just give us a shout so that we don't worry overly much. And where is our other Lee anyway? Watergal Watergal =^..^=
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:08:56 GMT -5
deborah- I was so anxious to post about Angel last night that I didn't finish reading pages 23, 24 of part 24. I wanted to say I enjoyed all of your replies to earlier posts and appreciate the time and effort you went to to go back through all the old posts and respond to them. I'm sorry you missed Angel. ______________________________________ separate comment: At the rate we are posting there are just going to be times when those of us who actually have other lives (which is me only on rare occasions) just can't catch up. It seemed like the ep board had a pretty strict--please read before posting policy, but I'm going to understand when folks want to share their ideas without reading 10 previous pages of posts, even it does lead to repetition once in a while. Besides, I think posting may slow down just a little once new episodes end. Also, the new board we may be moving to will make quoting the original post much simpler. Edited By Sue P at 5/8/2003 9:20:00 AM.
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:10:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I knew Josh had finals, maybe it hasn't been as long as it seems. Ellie has kids at home with her, right? They do tend to require occasional tending to. Lee Parish has checked in a few time near the end of Part 24. Do you still want another description of the promo for next week? I'll go re-watch it now. (and if I happen to rewind the tape so far that I have to rewatch Spike with Buffy, well, sometimes life is just like that.)
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:11:25 GMT -5
Sue, I disagree (and I'm jumping in so late but here's my take). I watched last night and my heart broke. There is nothing I wouldn't do for my boys, including that sort of sacrifice. And it reminded me of an Unsolved Mysteries story I once watched (love U.M.), about a young Black couple that worked in a restaurant, one as a cook, the other as a waitress. They were in love, and she got pregnant, but they were poor, and knew they couldn't give their baby what she deserved. So, they made arrangements, and had a middle class black couple (this was during the 50's, when poor Black people were just po'!). Anyway, the adoptive parents would bring the little girl to the restaurant every birthday, but the little girl never knew she was adopted, never knew her real parents. I thought that this was such an UNSELFISH sacrafise. I think enduring pain to take it away from those we love, especially our children (and as a parent, I'm sure you're had to do it at points, absorbing pain to keep your child/children happy), is the ultimate act of love. Because there's not a hell of a lot of people I'd add to my pain for. Just my 2 cents!
James Gaskins
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Post by Dalton on Sept 21, 2003 22:12:15 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure someone trying to be funny posted a spoiler for the final episode. I am unspoiled, but it sounds like something that can be happening. Just in case this person wasn't just kidding, avoid reading it!
James Gaskins
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