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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 10:55:08 GMT -5
LOL Cold are you? Negative double digits? Well it is -26deg Celcius here. (Quick calculator manipulation deg C = (deg F -32) times 5/9) so that would be -15 F with a windchill of -33 Farenheit so I feel your pain. Good news is, the temperature is supposed to climb through the week.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 10:55:46 GMT -5
Yes, yes, I know the word is "sired" but I much prefer vampification. Anyway, I thought I would stir the pot and get some ideas flying about...
It has occured to me a few times, but I have not posted the thought, that vampires seem very selective as to whom they vampify. We have discussed previously that a young vampire (young human turned vampire) would be more likely to turn people of their age set. (i.e. their high-school or university friends) Also, I believe we have been through the logic of young-human-turned-vampires being more prolific than the "older" vampires (the folies of youth, not taking responsibility for one's Childeren.) Regardless, there seems to be a disproportionate amount of late-teen early twenties humans turned vampire. (Can you follow all that?)
Are there unwritten rules concerning who you vampify?
Anne Rice covered the whole question of "Thou shall not vampify children." in Interview with a Vampire. Does this rule also apply in the Buffyverse?
Also, there seem to be few older-human-turned-vampires. Is this due to the fact that vamps prefer their meals "fresher" (i.e. younger)? If this were so, wouldn't we see more child victims? Or are children simply too small to make a satisfying meal?
Also, in another vein, (I love that saying in this context!) we have the children of vampires. We have explored this question as regards to a child born to vampires and yet have ignored the obvious question of: if a person has a child and then is turned into a vampire what happens? This seems like a silly question. Mom or Dad is dead to the kid right? But Angel raises the question, after he became a vampire he returned to kill his family. Is this simply because he was a particularly evil vampire, or do vampires generally kill their families?
I ask this because we all assume that vampires have no families (and the youth of vampires at the time of their death might make this rare) but, especially in the past, a 16 or 20 year old could have a well established family. (Some still do!) So, as such, many of the vampires roaming Sunnydale could well have families and decendents.
For example (and this is a stretch considering what we know of William's stuttering shyness around women) our beloved Spike could have some great-great-grandchild roaming around. Our faithful watcher Giles could well be William's progeny. (Just an example folks to make my point. I am no way claiming that this is the case. Just wanted you to see what I was talking about.) Or, even more likely, Angel could have a great-great-great-great-grandchild to be a relative to young Connor. An important thing to remember should Connor ever require bone-marrow.
Well, I think this is long enough for the moment, but I hope that some of you will have some comments/objections so that we can discuss this further.
Watergal, your faithful conversation starter in Nosf.Eng.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 10:56:39 GMT -5
Spike on a bicycle eating Weetabix while wearing only the turtleneck?
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 10:57:25 GMT -5
Spike tilting his head to the left and slightly raising his left eyebrow at you with a look of recognition. (À la Buffy-resurected coming down the staircase or Buffy rescuing him under the Christmas Tree Lot.)
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 10:59:24 GMT -5
Okay Spring. I was going to wait and see if my thoughts would settle into a more coherent order before posting but you've given me an excuse to plunge ahead.
Yesterday I picked up the Season 3 (NONE of which I'd seen before) DVD. While I was jumping up and down at the prospect of finally seeing "Lovers Walk" at long last I still had reservations about laying out all that money for a whole season with just one Spike episode. But a number of folks here, posting on this very board devoted to the study and adoration of Spike have rated Season 3 so highly that I swallowed my reservations and handed over the plastic.
Boy am I ever glad I did.
If the rest of the season sucked rotten eggs "Lovers Walk" would still have been worth it. Me thinks it may now be one of all time favorite Spike episodes (and there are still plenty I haven't seen yet) thus far. It has everything, well, excepting Spuffy, but it has them working together and that's a joy in itself. No matter that Buffy (thinks she) "violently dislikes" him or calls him "the shell of a loser", the way they can so easily and seamlessly fight together against a common enemy belies the friction and mutual contempt that characterize their verbal exchanges.
And speaking of the fight scenes, fantastic! They were a true showcase for his actual prowess and lethal skill in hand to hand combat. What a thrill to see Spike in top fighting form; quick, sure, powerful and loving every minute of it. In contrast, there have been a number of episodes where his optimum fighting skill appears to be sacrificed for the sake of the plot which always annoys me. "The Gift" comes to mind where Spike seems to be all too easily dispatched by Doc when they confront each other a top the tower.
As for the rest of the episode, well, I knew it was a good one from having read the script. But seeing it played out was more than everything I'd hoped for. Being familiar with the lines in advance in no way diminished my enjoyment of seeing and hearing Spike utter them. This episode really stands out for me because we get to see Spike pass through so many phases. We see him drunk and despairing, enraged, maudlin, truly terrifying, as when he threatens Willow with the broken bottle, snarly, and playful and mocking - the cocoa scene with Joyce where he's taunting Angel whose barred from entering is absolutely priceless. "Lovers Walk" was this Spike lover's dream come true. Spring, I'm eager to read what you will will have to say about this episode when you reach it in your Spikecentric episode analysis series.
As an extra added bonus, the first two episodes of the season which, are all that I've gotten to so far (besides "Lovers Walk" obviously) are so good that I was able to get lost in them even without the presence of Spike to rivet my attention to the screen. I am looking forward to watching the rest of the episodes.
This was supposed to be a quick post to briefly divert Spring from the bitter cold (I'm in Chicago so I share your pain) but it's taken me a long time to write because my boss has failed to cooperate by staying in his office. He keeps walking past my desk. Here he comes now.
All this toggeling back and forth is distracting and time consuming. Gotta go.
deborah
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 11:00:41 GMT -5
Water Gal said:
"For example (and this is a stretch considering what we know of William's stuttering shyness around women) our beloved Spike could have some great-great-grandchild roaming around "
I agree, highly unlikely. But you reminded me of something Spike says that doesn't ring true for me in a rerun I saw recently. It was "Goodbye Iowa" I believe, and he tells Buffy that she has tragic taste in men, and that he has a cousin married to some kind of demon or other with better judgement than her. Wait, let me get the exact quote... (toggling off to Shooting Scripts)...Here we go:
"SPIKE Got to hand it to you, Goldilocks, you have bleedin' tragic taste in men. I have a cousin, married a regurgitating Frovlax demon, has better instincts than you."
Since Spike was a human who became a demon when sired as a vampire it really made no sense for him to have a cousin married to a demon. First of all it could only be a cousin many times removed and it would also mean that spike had kept track of his relations through the generations (possible I guess but we've never had any prior indication of interest in human family) and the far distant relative would have had to by weird coincidence married a demon.
I know I'm really nit-picking here but the line just sounded *off* to me.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 11:01:42 GMT -5
I've completely, I think, missed Part Six of this discussion!
God, I love this board and all the things you guys have to say but I just can't keep up!
Wanted to say you all are awesome -- love the things you say here -- I adore JM, but I think I'm going to have to be more of a lurker than a frequent poster.
Just call me a silent member and devoted admirer of the Spike Society.
Cheers!
Athene V
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 11:02:39 GMT -5
Deb,
While I agree that it's not impossible that Spike has a cousin (many times removed) that married a demon, I imagine that Spike is just telling Buffy this for effect. Sort of like people often use the "Daddy always told me..."
Beyond this, Spike has a propensity to lie, exaggerate the truth, and make up his own press. This is exemplified by his nickname status, his insistence that he's "..always been bad, luv." and so forth.
I don't douubt that Spike still has family roaming about England. It's only been a little over 100 years since he was vampified. Heck, my grandfather (yes, grandfather, not great grandfather) was born in 1884. My great grandfather was born in 1834. My mom was 35 when I was born...So it's quite possible to have a limited number of ancestors to go back thru the years.
But of this family, I doubt that Spike really keeps up with them. However, don't forget that Spike did come from the gentry class. Family means a lot to them and it was more highly valued in the olden days. So, it's quite possible that spike keeps track of the various names of his notable family in the papers or tabloids. Being a person in the demon underworld, he may have knowledge that a certain distant cousin did indeed marry a demon. This is the Buffyverse!
I mean, what are the odds that Willow would hook up with a chick that has an entire family that believes it's women are demons? In this world, demons, magic, and vampires are real, and fairly common.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 11:03:16 GMT -5
Athene! Please don't be silent! You have always had great insightful posts in the past. If you can't catch up by reading the old posts, don't. Just jump on in now. The water is fine!
Seriously, just listen in, and when someone posts somethign that inspires you, or incites you, send off a reply. Also, I think you'll be amazed at how quickly you'll reacclimitize to talking about Spike. This board is good enough about refering to previous posts that you can slowly catch up your database as you go along.
Welcome back,
Vlad, TA, tp
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 11:07:18 GMT -5
Vlad, you make a lot of sense. Spike was probably going for effect there and it would be in character for him to still take a passing interest in his prominent family.
deborah
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 11:08:17 GMT -5
I think the way the demon cousin thing is phrased it doesn't imply either present or past tense. After Spike was turned who knows how many of his relatives he turned just to get back at them for tormenting him. (I see the cousin as kind of a fat, sweaty piggy little bully who deserves a regurgitating Frovlax demon as a wife.
And just to be technical. It could be a cousin by vampire family relationships. That would be a Sire's sibling's Childe?My mother's much better at this cousin by marriage, twice removed stuff
Rusty Goode
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 11:08:55 GMT -5
Thank you ladies - your images and the afternoon sun have helped up my body temperature considerably. I am in the Upper MidWest, and it's a frigid day from the Great Lakes to the Ohio River. But not frigid for me, no, that's not the word at all! Not with images of bicycles and sexy raised brow looks and memories of Lovers Walk dancing through my head!
Deborah: Yes, Lovers Walk is a great one. I haven't bought the Season 3 DVD yet though. That's what I'll do. I'll go ahead and order it, and when it comes in, I'll do my analysis.
Edited By Spring Summers at 1/27/2003 2:26:00 PM.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 11:09:53 GMT -5
Lover's Walk is one of my all-time favorites. Spike and Willow are great together and they reference back to Lover's Walk when Spike escapes from the Initiative and discovers he can't bite Willow. He's gentleman enough to tell her he certainly would if he could, and she does that whole "It doesn't make you any less scary." Classic woman's reassurance number.And Spike's: "I'm only 126!" and "Don't Patronize me!" Brilliant!
I never saw them as romantically matched, but they have great boyfriend/best friend of the heroine chemistry.
Rusty Goode
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 11:12:00 GMT -5
Oooh, I just found a link to a series of JM interviews (from 2001) that is on a webpage I've had bookmarked for a long time. So far I've only read the first two but in the second one which was apparently written during Season Four James talks about "School Hard" and "Lovers Walk". He said he really liked "School Hard" but thought his acting was a bit over the top which was my impression too. It's as if, as is so often the case with a a new character, he hadn't quite *found* him yet. Then he goes on to say that "Lovers Walk" was his favorite episode (up to that point). Here is the excerpt from the interview attributed to BAD BLOOD SC FI TV 2001: "Marsters, however, does pick a couple of favorites. "I liked 'School Hard,'" he comments, referring to his very first Buffy adventure. "I got a good body count. The character cut a wide swath through the population. But I thought that my acting was a little over the top, frankly. For me, 'Lover's Walk,' where I came back looking for Dru and I was all drunk, is probably my favorite. Doing the scenes with Sarah on top of the police car and with Willow [Alyson Hannigan] in the vampire den was great. I thought those scenes worked really well." And here's a link to the page with the interviews: www.buffyscripts.net/interviews/james/index.htmAnd what rated as Marsters' most wild Buffy moment to date? "I lit my hand on fire," he says, laughing. "I did that in 'Lover's Walk,' which was my one season three show. They were trying to figure out how to get the stuntperson's hand in the shot so they could do the fire gag, and I said, 'Let me! Let me!' I'm always trying to get into doing that stuff, and they let me. We did two takes. I burned the hell out of my hand, but I had a good time doing it."
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Post by Dalton on Jul 1, 2003 11:12:52 GMT -5
As I was watching "Lovers Walk" (twice all the way through and countless replays of favorite Spike scenes) I'd occasionally become aware that my smile was so wide it's a wonder my face didn't break in two.
deborah cohen
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