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Post by Becky H on Oct 28, 2004 19:30:29 GMT -5
Oh what the Hell: Kate is Mary Ann. Shannon is Ginger. Jack is the Professor. Hurley is Gilligan. The pilot is the Skipper...only 'cause both managed to get themselves...well, "Lost." Now for the reaches. Those of you who weren't forced to repeatedly watch "Gilligan's Island" for years after school because cable wasn't around need not read on: Charlie is one of the Mosquitoes. Wait, the pilot could be Wrong Way Feldman! And, and....Jin is...um...that Japanese sailor dude who thought World War II was still on. Ok, I'm tapped. Thanks so much, Spring - I just lost 20 minutes of my life over your little Gilligan reference. My husband and his brother used to race to identify the episode first within the first three minutes of any given Gilligan - so that was a lot more than twenty minutes of Their lives lost I agree with most of your identifications but I think Jack's the Skipper (a. because the Skipper lived and b. because half the time, he was pretending to know what he was doing) and because Sayid has got to be the Professor. I'm just waiting for him to make a radio out of a coconut shell, aren't you?
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 28, 2004 19:58:13 GMT -5
Oh what the Hell: Kate is Mary Ann. Shannon is Ginger. Jack is the Professor. Hurley is Gilligan. The pilot is the Skipper...only 'cause both managed to get themselves...well, "Lost." Now for the reaches. Those of you who weren't forced to repeatedly watch "Gilligan's Island" for years after school because cable wasn't around need not read on: Charlie is one of the Mosquitoes. Wait, the pilot could be Wrong Way Feldman! And, and....Jin is...um...that Japanese sailor dude who thought World War II was still on. Ok, I'm tapped. Thanks so much, Spring - I just lost 20 minutes of my life over your little Gilligan reference. Anytime, my friend! I must agree with Becky that Sayid is surely the Professor, and is Jack the Skipper. I agree with your other assignments, though I think Jin & Sun have to be Mr & Mrs Howell, by default, as they seem to be the only married couple among the main characters. I actually remember The Mosquitos, now that you mention them. A big LOL on that memory. Good call. I found out today that quite a few people I work with are watching Lost. That is very different than it was with Buffy. I know better than to ask about Veronica Mars.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 28, 2004 21:30:52 GMT -5
Anytime, my friend! I must agree with Becky that Sayid is surely the Professor, and is Jack the Skipper. I agree with your other assignments, though I think Jin & Sun have to be Mr & Mrs Howell, by default, as they seem to be the only married couple among the main characters. I actually remember The Mosquitos, now that you mention them. A big LOL on that memory. Good call. I found out today that quite a few people I work with are watching Lost. That is very different than it was with Buffy. I know better than to ask about Veronica Mars.You're all three awful. I like it. I watched Gilligan the first time around. I was young, very young, and foolish. Paul says some of the other chemists are watching Lost (one of them wants to talk about it), and it's actually getting good ratings. Does this mean we've gone mainstream, or has everyone else joined the geek club? Anne, and a very fine club it is, too
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Post by Linda on Oct 28, 2004 22:22:04 GMT -5
Are we all convinced the island is "making wishes come true?" I mean, it sort of seems that way, and it sort of doesn't. I agree that Jin was not physically abusing Sun, but since she went so far as to plan to leave him, things must have been getting pretty bad. I had this feeling, though, that she was running away from her father as much as Jin. Eetah regarding Jin and Sun. I don't think that it is abuse that Sun fears most, but rather that he's turning into her father. The ties of family and proper behavior are often very strong in Asian societies. (I see it here in Hawaii a lot. And not just on my Mom's Korean soap operas. ) I have no problem imagining that her desire to elope in the first place was to get out of a situation where everything she was and everything she had was owed to her father. I think that while Jin gave up everything to marry her, she gave up her preferred independence to stay with him, too. And *pout*. Until this episode, I was all ready to write Jin off. They had to go and show the man he used to be, all loving and hopeful. I had this whole redemption scenario, too, where he and Sticks would see the error of their ways and sacrifice themselves for the good of the group by jumping into a conveniently erupting volcano. (I guess this means that Sticks was frustrated in her plans of becoming a nun or something. ;D ) I hope we get to see Sun's father in Jin's flashback, because he seems to overwhelm everyone in his vicinity. I think he was able to subborn Jin and therefore keep Sun tied to him by convincing Jin that he wasn't good enough and that Sun wouldn't stay with him for long if he didn't acquire money and power. Theory: I believe that Money and Power is what the gold watch represented to Jin. (Example: Sun was wearing one in the flashback when she was looking at her engagement ring.) Significantly, the watch that caused Jin to go ballistic belonged to Sun's father and not to Jin. And I think that Jin's main problem is equating Sun and his marriage with the gold watch. And THAT is why he was so murderously incensed that Michael was wearing it. He had to know that Michael and Sun are more than just polite strangers because Michael asked Sun to watch Walt the other episode. Seeing it on Michael probably made him think that he was losing her. He can't see that it is his own actions that are the real cause of Sun's distance. Sun made her decision to stay with Jin back in the airport. For the sake of the man she fell in love with. But she's still keeping her English-speaking a secret from him. So she hasn't quite decided to stay with him permanently. Unless Jin stops channeling her father, I don't know if she can without breaking. (BTW, the puppy gift, while sweet, seemed patriarchal to me.) Oh, and Jin and Sun seem to be the only ones who can identify and catch edible seafood and recognize the useful properties of plants. Linda, catching up LATE as usual
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Post by Linda on Oct 28, 2004 22:29:16 GMT -5
to me, the characters' stories are the things that are the real story and the 'island' is the background. Not that I am not intensely interested in finding out what is going on, cause I am, but I think we are going to continue to learn about both at the same time, through the season. I was thinking about what we've seen so far. Characters flashed back so far 1) Flashback decision turning point; 2) Island decision turning point; 3) What we don't yet know; 4) Catch phrase (just because) Kate 1) trusting Ray to drive her to the train station; 2) trusting Jack to tell him about why she's a fugitive; 3) why she's a fugitive; 4) Trust Me. Locke 1) flying to Australia to go on the Walkabout; 2) getting up again after missing the boar the first time (the scene exactly echoed the beach scene with the toe shot, except shoed); 3) how he became paraplegic in the first place; 4) Don't tell me what I can't do! Jack 1) chasing after his father; 2) listening to Locke and seriously chasing after his father's spectre; 3) what he did to send his father off the deep end; 4) You don't have it in you. Sun 1) staying with Jin; 2) revealing her secret to Michael; 3) why she is so certain that Jin couldn't break away from her father (there was a whole lotta not-talking in her flashbacks); 4) Something in Korean (OK joking) 11:15? Sort of weird, but not necessarily significant pattern: IMO, Kate's & Sun's island turning points have to do with trusting another human being. Locke's and Jack's have to do with trusting the weirdness of the island. Huh. Linda, of course, your mileage may vary... <Edited to add the catchphrases. >
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Post by Linda on Oct 28, 2004 22:34:44 GMT -5
I am thinking that Locke is still working on what he's going to give to the island. For some reason, the word "sacrifice" comes to mind . . . Charlie looks kind of young and tender and sweet . . . <snip> When is Claire having that baby? What will it mean, to give birth on that creepy island? If it is a boy, she should name it Thurston. A girl, Lovey. Proof positive that Spring is EEEEEVVVUUUULLLLLL. www.soulfulspike.com/membersavatars/smileys/rofl3.gif [/img] Linda, not that I needed any more proof. P.S. Oh, no! Rob, Becky & Anne have joined her evil Gilligan's Island cult! Aack!
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Post by Matthew on Oct 28, 2004 22:36:44 GMT -5
Eetah regarding Jin and Sun. I don't think that it is abuse that Sun fears most, but rather that he's turning into her father. The ties of family and proper behavior are often very strong in Asian societies. (I see it here in Hawaii a lot. And not just on my Mom's Korean soap operas. ) I have no problem imagining that her desire to elope in the first place was to get out of a situation where everything she was and everything she had was owed to her father. I think that while Jin gave up everything to marry her, she gave up her preferred independence to stay with him, too. And *pout*. Until this episode, I was all ready to write Jin off. They had to go and show the man he used to be, all loving and hopeful. I had this whole redemption scenario, too, where he and Sticks would see the error of their ways and sacrifice themselves for the good of the group by jumping into a conveniently erupting volcano. (I guess this means that Sticks was frustrated in her plans of becoming a nun or something. ;D ) I hope we get to see Sun's father in Jin's flashback, because he seems to overwhelm everyone in his vicinity. I think he was able to subborn Jin and therefore keep Sun tied to him by convincing Jin that he wasn't good enough and that Sun wouldn't stay with him for long if he didn't acquire money and power. Theory: I believe that Money and Power is what the gold watch represented to Jin. (Example: Sun was wearing one in the flashback when she was looking at her engagement ring.) Significantly, the watch that caused Jin to go ballistic belonged to Sun's father and not to Jin. And I think that Jin's main problem is equating Sun and his marriage with the gold watch. And THAT is why he was so murderously incensed that Michael was wearing it. He had to know that Michael and Sun are more than just polite strangers because Michael asked Sun to watch Walt the other episode. Seeing it on Michael probably made him think that he was losing her. He can't see that it is his own actions that are the real cause of Sun's distance. Sun made her decision to stay with Jin back in the airport. For the sake of the man she fell in love with. But she's still keeping her English-speaking a secret from him. So she hasn't quite decided to stay with him permanently. Unless Jin stops channeling her father, I don't know if she can without breaking. (BTW, the puppy gift, while sweet, seemed patriarchal to me.) Oh, and Jin and Sun seem to be the only ones who can identify and catch edible seafood and recognize the useful properties of plants. Linda, catching up LATE as usual While you may be late to the party, Linda, you always bring the best party favors. Nice in-depth analysis. So you think that the watch is symbolic of Sun's wandering affections? At least in Jin's mind? And since he can't so much attack Sun, even though he may be abusive, he turns to the one who he thinks has stolen her affections.. It scans. When I ran across my ex snuggled up in the lap of some guy, I wanted to beat the crap out of him, despite the fact that she came on to him. Couldn't let myself go to the place where I could be that violently angry at her, so I had to divert the rage at betrayel onto someone else, so it became his fault.
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Post by Matthew on Oct 28, 2004 22:39:30 GMT -5
I was thinking about what we've seen so far. Characters flashed back so far 1) Flashback decision turning point; 2) Island decision turning point; 3) What we don't yet know Kate 1) trusting Ray to drive her to the train station; 2) trusting Jack to tell him about why she's a fugitive; 3) why she's a fugitive. Locke 1) flying to Australia to go on the Walkabout; 2) getting up again after missing the boar the first time (the scene exactly echoed the beach scene with the toe shot, except shoed); 3) how he became paraplegic in the first place. Jack 1) chasing after his father; 2) listening to Locke and seriously chasing after his father's spectre; 3) what he did to send his father off the deep end. Sun 1) staying with Jin; 2) revealing her secret to Michael; 3) why she is so certain that Jin couldn't break away from her father (there was a whole lotta not-talking in her flashbacks.) Sort of weird, but not necessarily significant pattern: IMO, Kate's & Sun's island turning points have to do with trusting another human being. Locke's and Jack's have to do with trusting the weirdness of the island. Huh.e w Linda, of course, your mileage may vary... Oh, I like it! I particularly like the phrase "trusting the weirdness" We need you to keep a table of these somewhere,and expand on it.
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Post by Linda on Oct 28, 2004 22:41:28 GMT -5
Hi all!
I really like everyone's observations here. Special thanks to Vlad for pointing out that there was more than beefy goodness going on in the Sayid/Sawyer fight break-up. Umm...what did Vlad say again? Something about wet shirts?
Put me in the camp that has reservations about Locke. He comes across as wise and knowledgeable, but the strength of his beliefs are not always founded on Truth, or he wouldn't have had that relationship with Helen, the phone-sex(?) person in his previous life.
Regarding the opening shot of each episode: IIRC, the only one that didn't start with an eye was Kate's Tabula Rasa episode. (I'm not counting the second half of the pilot.) It started with a general beach scene then cut to Jack & the Marshall & THEN to Kate and the transceiver party. Maybe it means that there's another Kate reveal to come.
Continuity error: no stitched scar on Jack's nekkid back. At least, I assume it's a continuity error... Cue spooky music.
And now back to RL.
Linda, Hawaii, still pretty (and I'll be sorry if we don't get so many beach scenes in the future.)
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Post by Linda on Oct 28, 2004 23:02:09 GMT -5
While you may be late to the party, Linda, you always bring the best party favors. Nice in-depth analysis. So you think that the watch is symbolic of Sun's wandering affections? At least in Jin's mind? And since he can't so much attack Sun, even though he may be abusive, he turns to the one who he thinks has stolen her affections.. It scans. When I ran across my ex snuggled up in the lap of some guy, I wanted to beat the crap out of him, despite the fact that she came on to him. Couldn't let myself go to the place where I could be that violently angry at her, so I had to divert the rage at betrayel onto someone else, so it became his fault. Thank you, sir, for the kind words. Transferrence is very human and understandable. And yeah, Jin's rage seemed way too passionate to be just a matter of losing face with her father. If it was just a matter of honor, I think he would have confronted Michael in a more formal way.
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Post by Nickim on Oct 29, 2004 7:06:42 GMT -5
LINDA and MATTHEW---Really cool thoughts, both of you. I'm wondering what Sun meant when she said "protecting the her father's watch was important to Jin"? Why isn't daddy wearing the watch? Does it represent "family honor"? Is it Sun's poor grasp of English?
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Post by Lola m on Oct 29, 2004 7:40:35 GMT -5
I was thinking about what we've seen so far. Characters flashed back so far 1) Flashback decision turning point; 2) Island decision turning point; 3) What we don't yet know; 4) Catch phrase (just because) Kate 1) trusting Ray to drive her to the train station; 2) trusting Jack to tell him about why she's a fugitive; 3) why she's a fugitive; 4) Trust Me. Locke 1) flying to Australia to go on the Walkabout; 2) getting up again after missing the boar the first time (the scene exactly echoed the beach scene with the toe shot, except shoed); 3) how he became paraplegic in the first place; 4) Don't tell me what I can't do! Jack 1) chasing after his father; 2) listening to Locke and seriously chasing after his father's spectre; 3) what he did to send his father off the deep end; 4) You don't have it in you. Sun 1) staying with Jin; 2) revealing her secret to Michael; 3) why she is so certain that Jin couldn't break away from her father (there was a whole lotta not-talking in her flashbacks); 4) Something in Korean (OK joking) 11:15? Sort of weird, but not necessarily significant pattern: IMO, Kate's & Sun's island turning points have to do with trusting another human being. Locke's and Jack's have to do with trusting the weirdness of the island. Huh. Linda, of course, your mileage may vary... <Edited to add the catchphrases. > Woah! Most excellent thoughts Linda. We have a repeating theme of trust here. And it seems like the island turning points tend to be about . . . almost . . . correcting the flashback turning points? Taking the "lesson" that was learned there (trust is a bad idea; let others stop you from trying; stay in a bad situation that will stay bad) and turning it around? Like Matthew said, great party favors! ;D And, yes. Did we really need confirmation that Spring it eeeeevuuuuullllll? No, I don't think we did. And she just can't help sucking more people into her evil web. **nods solemnly** Lola
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Post by Lola m on Oct 29, 2004 7:42:09 GMT -5
LINDA and MATTHEW---Really cool thoughts, both of you. I'm wondering what Sun meant when she said "protecting the her father's watch was important to Jin"? Why isn't daddy wearing the watch? Does it represent "family honor"? Is it Sun's poor grasp of English? Maybe daddy handed it down to Jin? He's supposed to protect it? So it's like a symbol of he's supposed to protect Sun? Or something? It would help if my brain were attached today! ;D Lola
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Post by Lola m on Oct 29, 2004 7:47:20 GMT -5
My husband and his brother used to race to identify the episode first within the first three minutes of any given Gilligan - so that was a lot more than twenty minutes of Their lives lost I agree with most of your identifications but I think Jack's the Skipper (a. because the Skipper lived and b. because half the time, he was pretending to know what he was doing) and because Sayid has got to be the Professor. I'm just waiting for him to make a radio out of a coconut shell, aren't you? OMG! We used to do the "name that ep" game too! They re-ran Gilligan so many times in my childhood that large chunks of it are still permanently imbedded in my head. "Hamlet, dear, your **something** is clear, avenging thy father's **something**, you seek to harm your Uncle and Mom, but you're scaring me to death". The "neither a borrower nor a lender be" song. The Honeybees! "You nee-eed me." Lola I so wanna see Sayid make a radio out of a coconut shell. Oh! And they should make one of those pedal cars out of bamboo and woven mats! And then radioactive vegetable seeds can wash up on the beach and they plant them . . . . I have perhaps, spent too much time thinking about this.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 29, 2004 7:48:28 GMT -5
Makes me hungry for more. I don't remember, did Jack and Kate keep the discovery of the stones a secret? I think so, but not so much in a "keep secret" way and more like, maybe don't think it's important and then got distracted by others seeing the bodies. I think. Lola
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