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Post by Rob on Nov 12, 2004 15:51:58 GMT -5
I wasn't sure how to read Jack's expression. I wasn't convinced that he was very affected by the "make out session" remark. Ooh...this reminds me to go finish that Jack/Sawyer slash fic.
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Post by Sara on Nov 12, 2004 15:53:20 GMT -5
"Sawyer" is one of the many surnames, like Chandler and Smith, that originally was related to a person's profession--calling someone John Sawyer indicated he sawed down trees for a living, like a lumberjack. Interesting that this character in particular is named for someone who cuts other things down, no? More interesting still, one of the meanings of "sawyer" is also "a tree fast in the bed of a stream with its branches projecting to the surface." Or, if you want to get all poetical, something caught between drowning and reaching for the sky.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 13, 2004 8:35:08 GMT -5
Ooh...this reminds me to go finish that Jack/Sawyer slash fic. Well - just so long as you're working on something (hint, hint.) SARA: Thanks for the info on the name Sawyer. I had no idea it meant anything. I am thinking the similarity in the two names Sayid and Sawyer is not coincidental, nor is their "dark/light" looks.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 13, 2004 9:09:12 GMT -5
Well - just so long as you're working on something (hint, hint.) SARA: Thanks for the info on the name Sawyer. I had no idea it meant anything. I am thinking the similarity in the two names Sayid and Sawyer is not coincidental, nor is their "dark/light" looks. I was just thinking, beyond the physical appearance - Sawyer appears outwardly all crude bluster and caring for no one but himself, Sayid is confidence and quiet strength and caring for others. Deep inside Sawyer is still a decent guy (note how he backed out of that last con because of the little boy), and Sayid carries an inner darkness and violence. Layers within layers within layers. It seems like no one on the island is what they seem outwardly, and the island brings it all to the surface. I'm sure I could say more, but I'm not awake and this barely makes sense as it is. I loved Charlie and Claire; thinking about it, it seemed like she just needed an excuse to move inland, and he gave her one with the imaginary peanut-butter flirtation. I really also liked Hurley giving Charlie what-for. Charlie deserved it, and it was well-delivered. Anne, goes off thinking happy thoughts about that courtly hand-kiss, inner darkness be damned
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Post by Nickim on Nov 13, 2004 12:03:50 GMT -5
Vlad, Great review. I'm not sure if I agree that "Confidence Man" was the best episode so far, but your review shows how much you liked it. I loved what you said here. The points from Watership Down really make sense. I read it, but 4th grade was a long time ago, so it was nice to be reminded of the story. Maybe Kate doesn't think she's good enough for Jack. So she turns to the other "outlaw" of the group. This reminds me of another actor we've watched a lot, what was his name? Oh, yeah, James Marsters. I loved your "Jedi moments." Very cool pointing out how "the power of the mind" has been so important. I agree totally with your "what didn't work" about Sawyer being up and walking after an arterial bleed, but the medical mistakes are my pet peeve. Your character summations are great. I laughed out loud when I read that moths "taste chalky" and that Sun helped Shannon to be able to start "yapping again." Thanks again, for doing these reviews. They really add to the enjoyment of the show.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Nov 13, 2004 15:35:49 GMT -5
Yay Vlad! Excellent review of an excellent episode!
Your explanation of what's behind Sawyer's behavior is just so good Vlad. This one of the reasons I enjoy your reviews so much - such a gift for seeing the truth I think, and conveying it. A little irritating though, because I feel kind of like that character on SNL - 'oh, you know how when you said that about confidence men? yeah...that was awesome..'
TOM SAWYER.... you had it pegged weeks ago...way before we knew Sawyer's back story.
I think though that the deepest tragedy for Sawyer is that he STILL understands perfectly what honor is - and he believes he has none left. He's wrong though. He left that briefcase of money behind him. I believe in him too. The island (by which I just mean whatever mysterious forces are working here) and Kate are going to do their job on him. (And on her too.)
Putting your comments on Tom Sawyer together with your comments on Watership Down -
I LOVE this - I think you are right on - the writers of this show have said no prop is meaningless in this series and they have not disappointed so far. They are painting wonderful parallels in these episodes - they give us puzzle pieces and you are doing such a great job of fitting them together - which just is great fun for me!
The Jedi Moments!
I loved Hurley's Jedi line to Jack ! And here goes - one of those 'you saw it, I didn't' things...
Just NEAT! I can see it that way now, and it ties in so perfectly with everything so far - of reality being affected or 'becoming' by belief - Jack believes in Charlie, Charlie believes in himself and becomes strong...Claire believes in Charlie - enough to enjoy the peanut butter that isn't there...and so is drawn into the camp.
Locke - We're sorta agreed all of us then that Locke is once again a candidate for 'still scary'. Good. *grin*
Speaking of Locke - wouldn't his feeble story about Sawyer being able to rig the flare fit your Cliff Climb moment of the week? Or does it not fit because you think we weren't even supposed to think it feasible?
ya think? *grin*
Vlad....get OVER it with Jin! Poor guy...I'm still rooting for him and Sun to talk out their problems. And getting more annoyed with her by the episode. Though the eucalyptus was a great idea. Amazing...ancient Korean folk medicine ..must be a required subject in school, even for the rich daughters of mobsters...
see? Michael needs to focus his attention elsewhere!
Thank you for the great review Vlad!
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 13, 2004 21:37:16 GMT -5
Vlad:
Another outstanding job.
Loved the reference to Tom Sawyer and the fence, and the way you incorporated Watership Down into what may be happening in Sawyer’s subconscious. I definitely agree on the underlying meaning of the title . . . it was everyone's confidence or the lack of it – in themselves and/or in their fellows – that drove each incident in the ep.
And now, I will again try to answer your questions . . .
Why didn’t Sawyer burn that letter? Does it mean he isn’t ready to let go of the past and forge ahead, or does it mean that he still intends to find the original Sawyer and confront him? Has his purpose been brought back on track?
Someone - I think either Karen or Patti - mentioned that maybe he was keeping it to remind himself of what he had become, so he wouldn't ever go back there again. I kind of like that theory. Because I really had the feeling that his vendetta was over - had been over since he realized, looking in the little boy's eyes, what he had turned into due to his relentless focus. Speaking of which, what is Sawyer’s name? [/color]
Eugene S. Whipplewaite (S is for Shirley.) This is just my best guess. Hey. You asked. Was it Locke that conked Sayid? Could it be that easy?[/color]
I am thinking yes.
Was Sawyer in Australia looking for the original Sawyer? Had he fled there to avoid the pool-shooting man who will want his hide for losing the $140K? If so, where was he headed on the plane? [/color]
I kinda doubt he was there looking for the original Sawyer, because I had this strong feeling he gave that up after the encounter with the little boy. So my guess is that Eugene had gone to Australia to flee the pool-shooting-man . . . and maybe decided enough time had passed and was going to try to come back.
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Post by Rob on Nov 14, 2004 1:32:18 GMT -5
Vlad....get OVER it with Jin! Poor guy...I'm still rooting for him and Sun to talk out their problems. And getting more annoyed with her by the episode. Though the eucalyptus was a great idea. Amazing...ancient Korean folk medicine ..must be a required subject in school, even for the rich daughters of mobsters... What do you have against Sun? She's smart, and slowly finding true independence from her husband. Dude needs to lighten up a little. Plus, I'm of the belief that his father-in-law's business may have required knowledge of other languages. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if he spoke English very soon. As for the whole ancient Korean folk medicine thing, she could've read that in any health magazine. The medicinal properties of eucalyptus are pretty much known worldwide. She probably just happened to know it's the key natural ingredient of a Halls cough drop. Plus, she looked pretty fine when she was cleaning up.
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Post by Sue on Nov 14, 2004 8:53:13 GMT -5
Not caught up at all, so you all may have discussed this.
Saw Evangeline Lilly on Dave Letterman Friday night. She said she need to catch a 4 am flight, takie 13 hours of flying and airports to get to Hawaii and be on the set in the afternoon.
She looked great. Talked about this being her first real job. He showed the ChatLine commerical She mentioned (twice) the 15 main characters, once in the context of a spoiler.
So--question--after you name the first 14 characters (see Vlad's picture reviews), who is number 15? Vincent the dog, or the black lady who we have seen briefly in two episodes and even have a name for? Are there 15 actors listed in the opening credits?
She also mentioned the "thing in the tree" which makes me pretty sure that it has an ongoing physical existance apart from the thoughts of the cast. (Unlike Jack's father for example).
EDIT: I see Sara'ys NYT's article refers to 14 characters. But EV clearly said 15, twice.
SARA: Did/would you also copy your article over on the articles thread for LOST?
FURTHER EDIT: Because I never found any comment on it I'm also going to repeat a previous question:
I've got 13 pages of posts to catch up on and many pages from the last episode too, but has this thought been discussed? That whatever takes place there: Locke's walking; Charley's non-addiction, Kate's non-escapee status (that one for sure); Jack's having put his dad behind him: will become undone? That what "happens on the Island, stays on the Island?"
Or does Locke maybe just not want to return to his former life?
It really had not occured to me that the "improvements" would not be lasting once away from the sphere of Island-influence.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Nov 14, 2004 13:35:09 GMT -5
What do you have against Sun? She's smart, and slowly finding true independence from her husband. Dude needs to lighten up a little. Plus, I'm of the belief that his father-in-law's business may have required knowledge of other languages. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if he spoke English very soon. As for the whole ancient Korean folk medicine thing, she could've read that in any health magazine. The medicinal properties of eucalyptus are pretty much known worldwide. She probably just happened to know it's the key natural ingredient of a Halls cough drop. Plus, she looked pretty fine when she was cleaning up. What I have against Sun is this...she's being all passive agressive with her husband. Acting like he's the sole problem - telling Michael her husband has a 'bad temper' and yet withholding information from him that would help him integrate with the other people - she doesn't have to tell him WHY she learned English but she should have told him by now. She gets no sympathy from me - she's a grownup like everyone else and enlisting Michael's sympathy and more while keeping vital secrets from her husband makes my lip curl. If anyone could have read about the eucalyptus in a health magazine, then why have the asian woman be the one to think about using it? Maybe if her husband could UNDERSTAND ENGLISH he would have suggested it. Not even Jack thought of it, which really - could maybe qualify as Vlad's cliff-climber of the week. I don't dislike her actually, except when I see you guys going awww poor widdle sun...she's so picked on. Gag me. (I did immediately recognize the eucalyptus branches myself. AND the huge bunch of bananas Kate was carrying on her back. )
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Nov 14, 2004 13:40:36 GMT -5
Not caught up at all, so you all may have discussed this. Saw Evangeline Lilly on Dave Letterman Friday night. She said she need to catch a 4 am flight, takie 13 hours of flying and airports to get to Hawaii and be on the set in the afternoon. She looked great. Talked about this being her first real job. He showed the ChatLine commerical She mentioned (twice) the 15 main characters, once in the context of a spoiler. So--question--after you name the first 14 characters (see Vlad's picture reviews), who is number 15? Vincent the dog, or the black lady who we have seen briefly in two episodes and even have a name for? Are there 15 actors listed in the opening credits? She also mentioned the "thing in the tree" which makes me pretty sure that it has an ongoing physical existance apart from the thoughts of the cast. (Unlike Jack's father for example). EDIT: I see Sara'ys NYT's article refers to 14 characters. But EV clearly said 15, twice. SARA: Did/would you also copy your article over on the articles thread for LOST? FURTHER EDIT: Because I never found any comment on it I'm also going to repeat a previous question: I've got 13 pages of posts to catch up on and many pages from the last episode too, but has this thought been discussed? That whatever takes place there: Locke's walking; Charley's non-addiction, Kate's non-escapee status (that one for sure); Jack's having put his dad behind him: will become undone? That what "happens on the Island, stays on the Island?" Or does Locke maybe just not want to return to his former life? It really had not occured to me that the "improvements" would not be lasting once away from the sphere of Island-influence. That's an interesting question. It makes sense to me that what is happening on the island would 'stay on the island' - in the mystical sense anyway. Lessons learned should stay learned I'd think. (and I'm ready for some more mysticals, this episode didn't have any that I can think of unless having eucalyptus and bananas on the same island is odd (I have no idea if it is).
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 14, 2004 13:58:27 GMT -5
What I have against Sun is this...she's being all passive agressive with her husband. Acting like he's the sole problem - telling Michael her husband has a 'bad temper' and yet withholding information from him that would help him integrate with the other people - she doesn't have to tell him WHY she learned English but she should have told him by now. She gets no sympathy from me - she's a grownup like everyone else and enlisting Michael's sympathy and more while keeping vital secrets from her husband makes my lip curl. If anyone could have read about the eucalyptus in a health magazine, then why have the asian woman be the one to think about using it? Maybe if her husband could UNDERSTAND ENGLISH he would have suggested it. Not even Jack thought of it, which really - could maybe qualify as Vlad's cliff-climber of the week. I don't dislike her actually, except when I see you guys going awww poor widdle sun...she's so picked on. Gag me. (I did immediately recognize the eucalyptus branches myself. AND the huge bunch of bananas Kate was carrying on her back. ) I definitely agree that the Sun-Jin relationship is a complex, two-way-street relationship between two adults. I don't see it as a victim-victimizer situation either. There's no sign of physical abuse of either party, so it's all head games stuff - codependency and all that stuff. Both people have to be playing the game for it to continue. They've both shown some signs of easing up on it. Jin tried his controlling stuff with the "cover up" message last week. Sun just said no. And he accepted it without any show of temper, and they moved on. I do think they loved each other a lot to begin with, and that maybe now, they can get that back - if Jin relaxes on trying to maintain the persona he thought he needed back in the "real world," and Sun starts being more honest with him. Of course, these two things are interrelated . .. the more Jin acts like an ass and maintains that sterness and hair-trigger temper, etc, the less likely Sun is to confide in him. The more Sun is dishonest with her husband, the more he is likely to feel confused and insecure (and act like an ass.) I would like to see them give each other a chance before branching off to be with others, as it did not seem "too late" to me. Sun is a grown woman, she made her own decision to stay with Jin. And that they are now away from her father and everything that meant.
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Post by Nickim on Nov 14, 2004 14:10:01 GMT -5
What I have against Sun is this...she's being all passive agressive with her husband. Acting like he's the sole problem - telling Michael her husband has a 'bad temper' and yet withholding information from him that would help him integrate with the other people - she doesn't have to tell him WHY she learned English but she should have told him by now. She gets no sympathy from me - she's a grownup like everyone else and enlisting Michael's sympathy and more while keeping vital secrets from her husband makes my lip curl. If anyone could have read about the eucalyptus in a health magazine, then why have the asian woman be the one to think about using it? Maybe if her husband could UNDERSTAND ENGLISH he would have suggested it. Not even Jack thought of it, which really - could maybe qualify as Vlad's cliff-climber of the week. I don't dislike her actually, except when I see you guys going awww poor widdle sun...she's so picked on. Gag me. (I did immediately recognize the eucalyptus branches myself. AND the huge bunch of bananas Kate was carrying on her back. ) Very good points about Sun. I thought she should have told Jin that she could speak English as soon as she woke up from the plane crash. She could have pretended to just know a few words and could have told him she took lessons just because she was bored.
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Post by Sara on Nov 14, 2004 15:00:26 GMT -5
<snip> EDIT: I see Sara'ys NYT's article refers to 14 characters. But EV clearly said 15, twice. SARA: Did/would you also copy your article over on the articles thread for LOST? FURTHER EDIT: Because I never found any comment on it I'm also going to repeat a previous question: I've got 13 pages of posts to catch up on and many pages from the last episode too, but has this thought been discussed? That whatever takes place there: Locke's walking; Charley's non-addiction, Kate's non-escapee status (that one for sure); Jack's having put his dad behind him: will become undone? That what "happens on the Island, stays on the Island?" Or does Locke maybe just not want to return to his former life? It really had not occured to me that the "improvements" would not be lasting once away from the sphere of Island-influence. I'd be happy to copy it if there were an article thread specifically for Lost, but as far as I can tell no such thing exists yet. Should I post it on the existing thread for articles about Buffy and such?
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Nov 14, 2004 15:57:29 GMT -5
I definitely agree that the Sun-Jin relationship is a complex, two-way-street relationship between two adults. I don't see it as a victim-victimizer situation either. There's no sign of physical abuse of either party, so it's all head games stuff - codependency and all that stuff. Both people have to be playing the game for it to continue. They've both shown some signs of easing up on it. Jin tried his controlling stuff with the "cover up" message last week. Sun just said no. And he accepted it without any show of temper, and they moved on. I do think they loved each other a lot to begin with, and that maybe now, they can get that back - if Jin relaxes on trying to maintain the persona he thought he needed back in the "real world," and Sun starts being more honest with him. Of course, these two things are interrelated . .. the more Jin acts like an ass and maintains that sterness and hair-trigger temper, etc, the less likely Sun is to confide in him. The more Sun is dishonest with her husband, the more he is likely to feel confused and insecure (and act like an ass.) I would like to see them give each other a chance before branching off to be with others, as it did not seem "too late" to me. Sun is a grown woman, she made her own decision to stay with Jin. And that they are now away from her father and everything that meant. EETAH!
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