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Post by Sara on Dec 2, 2004 8:20:50 GMT -5
Yeah...Sara thinks more deeply about television than I do. Also, rearranging letters in words makes me want to throw things. So I'll just bask in her brightness instead. In truth I only started playing with letter combinations because they were so specific onscreen as to how Ethan spelled his last name--it screamed "this means something" to me. That's why when the show was over I brought up a blank notepad page, typed in the letters, and eventually had my little Sneakers moment.
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Post by Becky H on Dec 2, 2004 8:37:57 GMT -5
Well, I know I'm a big weird-o, cause my first thought was of Ethan Frome, so I expected a horrible accident with a sled. Erin, you rock! I thought Ethan Frome, too, when I heard him say his name. I doubt we're going to have a sled accident but hey, if there are polar bears maybe there's snow, too.
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Post by Becky H on Dec 2, 2004 8:48:26 GMT -5
One other real thought that has nothing to do with Edith Wharton. Does anyone else get the feeling that Jack, despite his own experiences there, is fighting accepting the weirdness of the island and is trying too hard to be Rational Man?
Instead of listening to Claire and affirming her sense that something's wrong, he turns to pharmaceuticals. And with Shannon's asthma, instead of seeing what the island might have available (eucalyptus), he's obsessed with getting the inhalers (and we all know how that turned out).
Jack says he doesn't think they'll be rescued by the outside world but he certainly seems to cling to the trappings of that outside world when there's a problem. It can't be good that he uses that as a crutch. Maybe it's because his sense of self is tied up with modern medicine. Or maybe it's just that he's not willing yet to admit that there are stranger things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in his philosophy.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 2, 2004 8:49:58 GMT -5
Quick thoughts because I've only read the first page of the thread and I'm not awake yet anyway - Those are some good comments on the first page. I didn't make the anagram connection, but I thought of Ethan Rayne. I wonder if this Ethan is also a follower of chaos theory. Not on the manifest could be because he wasn't on the plane, but also he could just have lied about his name in one place or the other. I adore Hurley! He is indeed the man! He's not just a good follower, he's turning into a leader - intelligent, caring, he has initiative - wow. I also just love Charlie. I think he really misses his brother; he's trying to connect with Claire partly because, I think in my fuzzy pre-tea head, he wants the wife-and-kid experience. Also, he's a nice person who cares about others. Other thought, where are you? Oh, the psychic - that one was really weird. In the first place, most "psychics" ask non-specific leading questions. They don't just drop a bomb like "when did you find out you are pregnant" or "when did your boyfriend leave you". This guy really saw something. The question is, what? Paul and I spent a while arguing about what he saw, and why he said Claire had to raise her own child or bad things would happen. Paul thought that it was to keep the baby from being evil, or being born deformed. I, on the other hand, think that the psychic saw Claire having her baby on the island, and that he was saying anything he could think of to get her into the right place to make it happen. One of the Maggody books features a true psychic. The way she's presented, she sometimes gets flashes of something, and all she can do is see that everything's in the right place so it happens. Things like her husband choking to death on the dinner she cooks for him; she "cooks what she has to cook, and serves what she has to serve", and watches him die because that's how it has to be. Eventually, she foresees her own death. Same thing. Anyway, I think that's what's going on with our psychic guy - he's doing what he has to so the inevitable happens. For the record, I'm with Fred. Nothing is inevitable. Anne, I'll read all the pages later, honest!
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 2, 2004 10:08:00 GMT -5
BIG oh. oh. Did anyone else think Ethan Rayne? when he said Rom? chaos Man, he looked very creepy there at the end. Aha! Brain share! Anne, hee hee
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 2, 2004 10:23:37 GMT -5
The screaming, the sweating. the breathing. We've seen it on dozens of TV shows, don't need to see Claire going through it, too. They shot the Marshall because he was suffering, would they shoot Claire if the labor was long and difficult? I hope not. First time labor probably is going to be long and difficult, because it's the first time and various, um err, things are getting rearranged. Something else Jack didn't seem to know about pregnancies - my OB-GYN, when he calculated my due date, said it was plus or minus two weeks. Due date is an estimate, especially with the first one. Both mine were early based on the estimated due date, and they were both full-term and healthy. Anne, there's a reason mothers have wider hips after the first baby (that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it)
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Post by Lola m on Dec 2, 2004 11:46:17 GMT -5
One other real thought that has nothing to do with Edith Wharton. Does anyone else get the feeling that Jack, despite his own experiences there, is fighting accepting the weirdness of the island and is trying too hard to be Rational Man? Instead of listening to Claire and affirming her sense that something's wrong, he turns to pharmaceuticals. And with Shannon's asthma, instead of seeing what the island might have available (eucalyptus), he's obsessed with getting the inhalers (and we all know how that turned out). Jack says he doesn't think they'll be rescued by the outside world but he certainly seems to cling to the trappings of that outside world when there's a problem. It can't be good that he uses that as a crutch. Maybe it's because his sense of self is tied up with modern medicine. Or maybe it's just that he's not willing yet to admit that there are stranger things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in his philosophy. Very possible. I can easily see Jack being the "there must be a logical reason for all this" guy. We get no clue at all about how he is dealing with his vision of his dad. Is he putting it all down to "I was overtired and stressed and went a little nuts"? Which it could very well have been. Having a "what is the logical/scientific reason for this" guy is not necessarily a bad thing. As long as he is willing to work with the things that he needs to (using island plants for the asthma 'cuz the drugs are gonna run out sooner or later) and becomes a bit more flexible (try asking the group for ideas/choices before, you know, torturing someone!). Lola
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Dec 2, 2004 11:47:01 GMT -5
Something is very odd with this baby. But I want to know, is the baby itself odd, or only the possible future of baby? Is it already coming out with tentacles and claws, or just that psychic guy saw it becoming, like Hitler when it grew up? Or did he see danger to the baby, like being experimented on while stranded on an island, rather than danger from the baby? "Rape caves" was classic! I kinda like Shannon when she is sassy, tough talkin', take crap from no one Shannon. Rather than, say, whiney stupid Shannon. I felf sorry for Charlie too. I mean, I was sorta laughing at him, but also sorry. Lola Oh Lola, we are thinking the same thoughts about the baby. And I had the feeling that Charlie definitely made points with Claire - she DID talk to him about her fears, and she did follow him back to the caves (or they tried to get there anyway.)
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Dec 2, 2004 11:47:28 GMT -5
Really? I liked pretty much all of it. The stuff with Hurley. The growing creepyness about the baby. The gathering of names and so on. The dream vision of Locke. Claire's backstory. Lola again with the ditto.
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Post by Rachael on Dec 2, 2004 11:48:34 GMT -5
The screaming, the sweating. the breathing. We've seen it on dozens of TV shows, don't need to see Claire going through it, too. They shot the Marshall because he was suffering, would they shoot Claire if the labor was long and difficult? Laughing a little at the imagery...probably not, though, 'cause odds are she'll survive it. And I agree - I'm tired of seeing births on television. Especially since they're not getting most of the reality, anyway, so why bother. They don't show the vomiting, or the blood, or EVER talk about how it's not over till after the placenta is delivered....
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Post by Rachael on Dec 2, 2004 11:49:58 GMT -5
Really? I liked pretty much all of it. The stuff with Hurley. The growing creepyness about the baby. The gathering of names and so on. The dream vision of Locke. Claire's backstory. Lola Yeah...I felt that the stuff I really enjoyed could have been condensed into maybe half the time, is all. No biggie.
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Post by Rachael on Dec 2, 2004 11:51:27 GMT -5
In truth I only started playing with letter combinations because they were so specific onscreen as to how Ethan spelled his last name--it screamed "this means something" to me. That's why when the show was over I brought up a blank notepad page, typed in the letters, and eventually had my little Sneakers moment. And I say again - you think about it more than me. The "how's that spelled" went unnoticed by me, though now you mention it....
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Post by Lola m on Dec 2, 2004 11:52:34 GMT -5
Quick thoughts because I've only read the first page of the thread and I'm not awake yet anyway - Those are some good comments on the first page. I didn't make the anagram connection, but I thought of Ethan Rayne. I wonder if this Ethan is also a follower of chaos theory. Not on the manifest could be because he wasn't on the plane, but also he could just have lied about his name in one place or the other. I adore Hurley! He is indeed the man! He's not just a good follower, he's turning into a leader - intelligent, caring, he has initiative - wow. I also just love Charlie. I think he really misses his brother; he's trying to connect with Claire partly because, I think in my fuzzy pre-tea head, he wants the wife-and-kid experience. Also, he's a nice person who cares about others. Other thought, where are you? Oh, the psychic - that one was really weird. In the first place, most "psychics" ask non-specific leading questions. They don't just drop a bomb like "when did you find out you are pregnant" or "when did your boyfriend leave you". This guy really saw something. The question is, what? Paul and I spent a while arguing about what he saw, and why he said Claire had to raise her own child or bad things would happen. Paul thought that it was to keep the baby from being evil, or being born deformed. I, on the other hand, think that the psychic saw Claire having her baby on the island, and that he was saying anything he could think of to get her into the right place to make it happen. One of the Maggody books features a true psychic. The way she's presented, she sometimes gets flashes of something, and all she can do is see that everything's in the right place so it happens. Things like her husband choking to death on the dinner she cooks for him; she "cooks what she has to cook, and serves what she has to serve", and watches him die because that's how it has to be. Eventually, she foresees her own death. Same thing. Anyway, I think that's what's going on with our psychic guy - he's doing what he has to so the inevitable happens. For the record, I'm with Fred. Nothing is inevitable. Anne, I'll read all the pages later, honest! Very with you there on the Hurley and Charlie thoughts. Hurley is not the "flashy" obvious, action-man type of leader. But he's really getting the time now to show the other side of leadership. Sensible pragmatic thinking, keeping cool with all types of people. Really, he is turning out to be the very best at understanding group dynamics and the "people" part of any equation. Hadn't thought about Charlie in the way you describe before, but it seems very plausible to me. What Charlie really seems to need and want is to make a connection to people. Huh. He and Hurley are the "people" people. But Hurley is better at seeing the whole picture, while Charlie is somewhat trapped by his own needs. Huh. Sorta like a metaphor for addiction, eh? I am still totally up in the air about the psychic. Lola
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Post by Rachael on Dec 2, 2004 11:54:03 GMT -5
Very possible. I can easily see Jack being the "there must be a logical reason for all this" guy. We get no clue at all about how he is dealing with his vision of his dad. Is he putting it all down to "I was overtired and stressed and went a little nuts"? Which it could very well have been. Having a "what is the logical/scientific reason for this" guy is not necessarily a bad thing. As long as he is willing to work with the things that he needs to (using island plants for the asthma 'cuz the drugs are gonna run out sooner or later) and becomes a bit more flexible (try asking the group for ideas/choices before, you know, torturing someone!). Lola Agreed. And also - if there is something evil and funky going on on the island, Logic Guy might be more able to resist it. Or not...CFL was a logic-gal, too, I assume.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 2, 2004 13:37:44 GMT -5
Laughing a little at the imagery...probably not, though, 'cause odds are she'll survive it. And I agree - I'm tired of seeing births on television. Especially since they're not getting most of the reality, anyway, so why bother. They don't show the vomiting, or the blood, or EVER talk about how it's not over till after the placenta is delivered.... Yup, you're absolutely right. And the mother always has perfect makeup all the way through, and just barely breaks a sweat... Anne, pfui
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