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Post by Sara on Dec 9, 2004 15:22:23 GMT -5
Havoc, that was a great catch - I'd forgotten about the patient's eyes being covered. We've talked before about eyes and their significance here, how often the opening shot focusses on someone's eye and then pulls back. I think we were treated to more layers of that in this episode. First, Jack's eyes in the OR when his Dad wants him to call the time of death were as black and opaque as one of Locke's backgammon pieces. What is he not letting himself see? Second, the patient's eyes are partially obscured with gauze. I'm not sure what to make of this except I get a sense that it reflects the ambiguities surrounding her death (and her baby's!). Third, Charlie is physically blindfolded. But didn't he see more clearly than Jack (to whom he seems to be this episode's mirror) what was really going on? Sure, the blindfold is a clearly creepy kidnapping thing but I think it's also some sort of metaphorical warning to Jack: there is none so blind as he who will not see. That's my take and I'm sticking to it! (At least until I've had some more coffee...). Another thing that the image of the woman with her eyes taped closed brings to mind for me is the traditional representation of justice as a blindfolded woman. Given the entire crux of that storyline is Jack's decision to close his eyes to any personal considerations, like his family ties, and do what was necessary in order to achieve some form of justice for the victim... well, if it wasn't a conscious decision then I'd say it's persuasive evidence that certain archtypes are well-embedded in our collective consciousness.
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Post by Nickim on Dec 9, 2004 15:26:36 GMT -5
Oh - this I like. Good stuff Becky and havoc. Maybe the flashlight has significance, too. Locke handed it to Boone and said - you need this more than I do. Then he dropped it, and they found the buried steel whatsit. I'm still disturbed by the vision of seeing Charlie hanging and blindfolded. And he said "I didn't see anything." and then "I don't remember." Or does he just not WANT to remember? Because he seemed to know about "they". Because Locke has more gifts from the island than we know? Or because he felt they were really close to something important and he didn't need to find his way back.
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Post by Karen on Dec 9, 2004 15:29:23 GMT -5
But back to Lost, we haven't had much commentary on the strange title of this episode. I understand the "daddy issues" part - Walt and his daddy issues, Jack and his daddy issues, but the cowboy part? I'd even add Kate to the "cowboy" and daddy issue list. When I think of cowboys, I think of leaders and individualists. And sometimes cute tushes. Clint Eastwood types and John Wayne.
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Post by Karen on Dec 9, 2004 15:42:17 GMT -5
Because Locke has more gifts from the island than we know? Or because he felt they were really close to something important and he didn't need to find his way back. Yes. Those are good. Especially about Locke having gotten more gifts. I think he also feels that Boone has alot more to find out about himself as a person. Boone's mom was the Martha Steward of Weddings. It sounds like he never had a chance to become his own person. Also, a flashlight pinpoints the light it shines to allow what it's shining on to be made more clear. At the same time, it doesn't really show the whole picture since it leaves things in the dark outside of it's angle of shine. When the batteries run out, the passengers will really be in the dark and be pretty restricted to daytime activities. rambling.......
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Post by Nickim on Dec 9, 2004 16:03:06 GMT -5
Yes. Those are good. Especially about Locke having gotten more gifts. I think he also feels that Boone has alot more to find out about himself as a person. Boone's mom was the Martha Steward of Weddings. It sounds like he never had a chance to become his own person. Also, a flashlight pinpoints the light it shines to allow what it's shining on to be made more clear. At the same time, it doesn't really show the whole picture since it leaves things in the dark outside of it's angle of shine. When the batteries run out, the passengers will really be in the dark and be pretty restricted to daytime activities. rambling....... No very good points. I really like what you said about the flashlight not showing the whole picture. That's what each episode has done, just show us a little bit of the whole picture. Like the blind men and the elephant.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Dec 9, 2004 17:52:30 GMT -5
No.... I made it for you. So you didn't steal it, either. Remember? I made you one and you wanted it shorter, and I remade it again...and this was the result. I assure you...I'm not Barb Cummings. Barb Watson. That's me. But..."long may she wave"? What's that about? ;D Barba, I'm known to confuse Barbs (and others), but I think I downloaded that particular "Spike's crotch" avatar from one of Barb Cummings' comments on her LiveJournal. So if you made it for me, I wonder where Barb got it.... Perhaps you adapted one I sent you, having collected it from Barb C? I'm reasonably sure I stole it, fair and square, and I only uploaded it (to photobucket) yesterday.... In any case, cheers to both Barbs and long may you BOTH wave!
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Post by Becky H on Dec 9, 2004 18:28:22 GMT -5
No very good points. I really like what you said about the flashlight not showing the whole picture. That's what each episode has done, just show us a little bit of the whole picture. Like the blind men and the elephant. Ooh, that's good, Nicki. I really like the sense that they're not listening to the bits of information that they're giving each other to get the whole picture but are only concentrating on what's right in front of them. It's almost like the beam of the flashlight is a type of tunnel vision. Or wait! Since we already have Locke and Rousseau, let's throw in a little Plato. "Allegory of the Cave," anyone? In the light of their camp fires, what shadows are they seeing on their cave walls? And do they dare turn around and face reality? And who are the puppeteers manipulating the shadows? Oh, stop me before I philosphize again. (And if it's been a long time since you thought about Plato, here's a nice explanation: faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm )
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 9, 2004 19:47:48 GMT -5
Oh - this I like. Good stuff Becky and havoc. Maybe the flashlight has significance, too. Locke handed it to Boone and said - you need this more than I do. Then he dropped it, and they found the buried steel whatsit. I'm still disturbed by the vision of seeing Charlie hanging and blindfolded. And he said "I didn't see anything." and then "I don't remember." Or does he just not WANT to remember? Because he seemed to know about "they". What if it isn't really Charley? I think I'd rather go with the trauma-induced amnesia - maybe it's all going to come back to him in random bits, poor baby.
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Barb who forgot to log in
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Post by Barb who forgot to log in on Dec 9, 2004 20:14:56 GMT -5
Barba, I'm known to confuse Barbs (and others), but I think I downloaded that particular "Spike's crotch" avatar from one of Barb Cummings' comments on her LiveJournal. So if you made it for me, I wonder where Barb got it.... Perhaps you adapted one I sent you, having collected it from Barb C? I'm reasonably sure I stole it, fair and square, and I only uploaded it (to photobucket) yesterday.... In any case, cheers to both Barbs and long may you BOTH wave! OH....I didn't know there was a CROTCH shot....I meant the one that I saw....Spike and the thumbs up. I KNOW I made that one. Just that one. Barb Cummings probably did make the one I never saw. I never saw a crotch shot. I apologize and slink away now. *hides head in shame*
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Dec 9, 2004 20:31:50 GMT -5
OH....I didn't know there was a CROTCH shot....I meant the one that I saw....Spike and the thumbs up. I KNOW I made that one. Just that one. Barb Cummings probably did make the one I never saw. I never saw a crotch shot. I apologize and slink away now. *hides head in shame* I thought it only suitable for Wednesday and changed early this morning. Sorry to have been confusing. I was dim and it didn't occur to me you only saw my post AFTER I'd changed my avatar. If you care to see the "I'm Spike and this is my crotch" avatar, it's the first one listed on MY portion of YOUR photobucket album. Hold your head up, please, so I can better see your proud smile about the Thumbs Up avatar, which I'd been yearning for, for ages, until you made it up for me!
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Dec 9, 2004 22:23:04 GMT -5
I thought it only suitable for Wednesday and changed early this morning. Sorry to have been confusing. I was dim and it didn't occur to me you only saw my post AFTER I'd changed my avatar. If you care to see the "I'm Spike and this is my crotch" avatar, it's the first one listed on MY portion of YOUR photobucket album. Hold your head up, please, so I can better see your proud smile about the Thumbs Up avatar, which I'd been yearning for, for ages, until you made it up for me! They are both very fine avatars indeed.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Dec 10, 2004 2:32:59 GMT -5
I think Locke's the Cheshire Cat--remember that smile with the orange? oh Sara! Of course! *hug* thanks, he fits perfectly...he even disappears a lot and says things that are very confusing.
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Post by havoc on Dec 10, 2004 6:32:10 GMT -5
Another thing that the image of the woman with her eyes taped closed brings to mind for me is the traditional representation of justice as a blindfolded woman. Given the entire crux of that storyline is Jack's decision to close his eyes to any personal considerations, like his family ties, and do what was necessary in order to achieve some form of justice for the victim... well, if it wasn't a conscious decision then I'd say it's persuasive evidence that certain archtypes are well-embedded in our collective consciousness. Interesting observation.
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Post by havoc on Dec 10, 2004 6:40:58 GMT -5
No very good points. I really like what you said about the flashlight not showing the whole picture. That's what each episode has done, just show us a little bit of the whole picture. Like the blind men and the elephant. Something's been bothering me about that - the flashlight thing.. Has anyone here ever walked on a steel plate covered in mud besides me? Try it. You won't stay upright very long.. it's like walking through an oil slick. Another thing, if it's just plate steel why was there no noise when Locke stepped on it - or how did he step over it given how wide it is.. It would bow, deform and make noise unless you knew to step silently across it.. something I learned from the sioux as a young teenager. I learned to hunt as an indian and track as an indian, so I understand a lot of what they're looking at; but, after a few days thinking, some of these things just don't add up. And I'm favoring the Locke as the Cheshire cat thing more and more. Lest we forget, Locke at the outset got cornered in a situation where we all were sure he was dead - remember that. What happened to him then. I know he came back with a boar; but, I don't think any of us believes for a moment it was a boar chasing him through the forest. I want to believe he's a good guy on the one hand. On the other, I don't think we can take anything for granted. More brainfood. I'm gonna sit and watch all the episodes back to back later and play some serious Columbo.
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Post by Karen on Dec 13, 2004 12:22:22 GMT -5
Something's been bothering me about that - the flashlight thing.. Has anyone here ever walked on a steel plate covered in mud besides me? Try it. You won't stay upright very long.. it's like walking through an oil slick. Another thing, if it's just plate steel why was there no noise when Locke stepped on it - or how did he step over it given how wide it is.. It would bow, deform and make noise unless you knew to step silently across it.. something I learned from the sioux as a young teenager. I learned to hunt as an indian and track as an indian, so I understand a lot of what they're looking at; but, after a few days thinking, some of these things just don't add up. And I'm favoring the Locke as the Cheshire cat thing more and more. Lest we forget, Locke at the outset got cornered in a situation where we all were sure he was dead - remember that. What happened to him then. I know he came back with a boar; but, I don't think any of us believes for a moment it was a boar chasing him through the forest. I want to believe he's a good guy on the one hand. On the other, I don't think we can take anything for granted. More brainfood. I'm gonna sit and watch all the episodes back to back later and play some serious Columbo. Are you saying that the steel thing wasn't there until after Locke threw the flashlight to Boone? Like the polar bear, Jack's dad, the transmisson, the French Lady, Ethan Rom materializations?
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