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Post by Linda on Apr 8, 2005 2:18:43 GMT -5
Hi all! I'm late to the party again! I am soooo far from caught up on the main board. But I really, really miss you guys, so I can't resist posting here. (Bestest wishes & *hugs* to all! I will read all your postings for the past month someday. Of course, I am still working on my Christmas 2004 to do list, so the "someday" is ... not so much defined. ) I really liked everyone's posts. Even the ones that disagree. Someone always comes up with things I didn't know and things that make me think. (And things that make me laugh -- I'm talkin' to you, you zombie & South Park posters. *snerk*) ((Spring)) And I have to say I really enjoy the stream-of-consciousness posts. It's so much fun figuring out after the fact which scene you all were talking about. Can I just say that finding S3 really makes watching a show 10 times more fun. Thank you all! Miscellaneous random thoughts: 'Kay, Boone wasn't exactly my favorite character, but dayum. Shannen is probably my least favorite character, but her quiet, solitary grieving still makes me cry, even as I type this. (I'm such a wuss.) Yay Sun, for helping both Jack & Boone in more ways than one. Yay Jin! I think this marks the first time that he became a member of the larger group, and not just the Korean-language group or the let's-build-a-raft-to-get-the-hell-outta-here group. With increasing English language comprehension. And thanks to the crises and the needs of others, he finally gets to speak at to Sun. Yay Sawyer, for keeping his asshat quotient to a minimum. And he was way less selfish this week: offering Claire some fish, sympathizing with Jin, giving up his supply of alcohol to Kate without hesitation, etc. I really liked Hurley's line to Jack: You're looking kinda goth. The title of the episode is "Do No Harm," but when Jack is treating Boone to save his life, he does many, many things that hurt Boone: stab him with a knitting needle to re-inflate his lung, run a needle and thread through his chest to close it up, yank his leg into re-alignment, and eventually, attempt to cut his leg off in order to better his chances to live. As Rachael pointed out, this last would be harm, not treatment. Thanks to Sun and Boone, Jack doesn't step over the line here. But did Jack step over the line by going through with his marriage? What happened to that marriage anyway? Me, I think it's long over. It was pre-tattoo, since there was no tattoo when Jack was wearing that tank-top in the clip-on/tie scene. And he doesn't seem to have a ring tan-line, either. Sarah's calling Jack her hero -- Is she Locke? Jack reversed her paralysis, just as the Island reversed Locke's -- against all odds, sounded like. Hmmm. What was their marriage like while it lasted? I'm in the Jack as admirable camp. During this episode, anyway. Eetah with Sara and Gail about how much pressure he was under. I know I would be way beyond cranky if the urgent demands piled up the way they did here. And an especial Eetah with Matthew about how Jack took his father's "lessons" and transmuted them into something humane. I tend to agree with Rachael, Pixi & Anne about their birth scene comments. I don't believe that Locke is a murderer. And I think that Boone is responsible for choosing the risk of staying on the plane, despite the warning creaks. But when Locke decided to leave the caves, he was all about his own pain and loss of faith. He did not consider how he could help Jack to help Boone. There were too many examples of people helping others despite their own pain and fear to allow me to gloss over Locke's absence in this episode. Sooo: All the various commitments here -- clip-on or tie? My opinions (Please feel free to argue! Some of these are off-the-cuff.) - Locke's commitment to Boone: clip-on -- once he carried Boone to the caves, he left to deal with his own pain
- Boone's commitment to Locke: tie -- he followed and listened and revealed a painful truth about himself and carried Locke when he could no longer walk
- Claire's commitment to the baby: tie -- she decided to push
- The group's commitment to the baby: we'll see once he gets back from Q'uartoth -- ooops! Wrong show. clip-on -- some will panic if the baby does something "special"
- Jin's commitment to Sun: tie -- he's so hurt that he can barely look at her, but he *cares*
- Sun's commitment to Jin: clip-on -- until they speak the same language
- Jack's commitment to Sarah: clip-on -- I'm sorry, but there were too many parallels between his marriage and a dying Boone. And were his vows really vows?: "I love you so much. And I always will." Jack's hesitation & delivery made them sound more like good-bye words than marriage promises to me.
- Shannen's commitment to Sayid: clip-on -- I think her feelings for Boone will strongly affect Shanyid.
- Sayid's commitment to Shannen: clip-on -- only hopes, not expectations. Uh huh.
- Boone's commitment to Shannen: tie -- his last thoughts were for her
- Shannen's commitment to Boone: tie -- I believe his death will haunt her forever
- Jack's commitment to saving lives: tie -- gives his own blood to Boone
- Jack's commitment to being the Leader: clip-on -- has done some things that have hurt the group at large -- and seems to be planning to do more in that vein.
- Jin's commitment to the group at large: tie -- responds to foreign-language distress calls, despite the near-lynching a few eps ago.
- Sun's commitment to healing: tie -- she helps just 'cause she can
- Hurley's commitment to the group: tie -- he helps just 'cause he can
- Locke's commitment to the Island: tie -- it gave him his legs back and something to believe in. It is alive to him
- Locke's commitment to the group: clip-on -- IMO, he helps others when it doesn't interfere with his purpose.
YMMV! (Ooooh! Listiness! Thanks to sunworshipper & Sue back in the VM thread for the idea!) Linda, zowie, intense episode P.S. But Hawaii still pretty.
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Post by Linda on Apr 8, 2005 2:35:36 GMT -5
More Listiness! Jack Shepherd Episode C: Do No Harm Flashback turning point: Committing himself without vows. Island turning point: Letting go of Boone. Why in Australia: already answered in All the Best Cowboys Misc. facts: Was married to a woman named Sarah. He met her by fixing her paralysis. Had a best man named Silverman (Was this the kid he defended back in White Rabbit? My recording skipped the entire teaser for that ep, so I don't remember.) The wedding was pre-tattoo. He doesn't currently wear a wedding ring, and he doesn't seem to have a ring tan-line, so it's been a while. At the time of the wedding, he still looked up to his dad. Misc. questions: So where's Sarah now? What happened to his marriage? "How the heck did he escape!?" Jungle of Mystery Moment: n/a Cameo in someone else's flashback: covered in previous eps. Didn't notice anyone in this ep. Con Man or Killer?: Con (IMO) in the flashback. Killer only in that there was another "failure" to save a life on the Island. (Marshall, drowning woman, Steve Scott red-shirt, and now Boone.) BTW, I don't blame Jack, but I think he blames himself. And Locke. Father issues (Karen's excellent category addition): At the time of his wedding to Sarah, Jack still wanted his Father in his life (no mention of his mom, though. Was she there?) But he was able to transmute his Father's potentially poisonous life-lessons into a commitment to not harm Sarah. Numbers Featured: 44 was the number on his fiancee's pajama shirt. New information about Locke: Con Man or Killer?: Like Boone, he is now an unintentional killer. Please feel free to add / argue! Linda, took me two and a half viewings to get a handle on this episode. Braincells not so cooperative last night.
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Post by RAKSHA on Apr 8, 2005 3:23:10 GMT -5
More Listiness! Jack Shepherd Episode C: Do No Harm Flashback turning point: Committing himself without vows. Island turning point: Letting go of Boone. Why in Australia: already answered in All the Best Cowboys Misc. facts: Was married to a woman named Sarah. He met her by fixing her paralysis. Had a best man named Silverman (Was this the kid he defended back in White Rabbit? My recording skipped the entire teaser for that ep, so I don't remember.) The wedding was pre-tattoo. He doesn't currently wear a wedding ring, and he doesn't seem to have a ring tan-line, so it's been a while. At the time of the wedding, he still looked up to his dad. Misc. questions: So where's Sarah now? What happened to his marriage? "How the heck did he escape!?" Jungle of Mystery Moment: n/a Cameo in someone else's flashback: covered in previous eps. Didn't notice anyone in this ep. Con Man or Killer?: Con (IMO) in the flashback. Killer only in that there was another "failure" to save a life on the Island. (Marshall, drowning woman, Steve Scott red-shirt, and now Boone.) BTW, I don't blame Jack, but I think he blames himself. And Locke. Father issues (Karen's excellent category addition): At the time of his wedding to Sarah, Jack still wanted his Father in his life (no mention of his mom, though. Was she there?) But he was able to transmute his Father's potentially poisonous life-lessons into a commitment to not harm Sarah. Numbers Featured: 44 was the number on his fiancee's pajama shirt. New information about Locke: Con Man or Killer?: Like Boone, he is now an unintentional killer. Please feel free to add / argue! Linda, took me two and a half viewings to get a handle on this episode. Braincells not so cooperative last night. I was just thinking...This was the first episode where I thought Jack came across as a real flesh-and-blood person instead of a cardboard cutout LeaderMan and Superdoctor. His struggle to save Boone, against increasingly impossible odds, was heartbreaking. I wish he'd learn from it, instead of go off on a Vengeance! crusade against Locke, though...But Jack may be so hard-wired to save every patient that he can't learn anything when one dies - and that's a strength as well as a weakness.
GAIL
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Post by William the Bloody on Apr 8, 2005 11:05:33 GMT -5
Hi all! I'm late to the party again! I am soooo far from caught up on the main board. But I really, really miss you guys, so I can't resist posting here. (Bestest wishes & *hugs* to all! I will read all your postings for the past month someday. Of course, I am still working on my Christmas 2004 to do list, so the "someday" is ... not so much defined. ) I really liked everyone's posts. Even the ones that disagree. Someone always comes up with things I didn't know and things that make me think. (And things that make me laugh -- I'm talkin' to you, you zombie & South Park posters. *snerk*) ((Spring)) And I have to say I really enjoy the stream-of-consciousness posts. It's so much fun figuring out after the fact which scene you all were talking about. Can I just say that finding S3 really makes watching a show 10 times more fun. Thank you all! Miscellaneous random thoughts: 'Kay, Boone wasn't exactly my favorite character, but dayum. Shannen is probably my least favorite character, but her quiet, solitary grieving still makes me cry, even as I type this. (I'm such a wuss.) Yay Sun, for helping both Jack & Boone in more ways than one. Yay Jin! I think this marks the first time that he became a member of the larger group, and not just the Korean-language group or the let's-build-a-raft-to-get-the-hell-outta-here group. With increasing English language comprehension. And thanks to the crises and the needs of others, he finally gets to speak at to Sun. Yay Sawyer, for keeping his asshat quotient to a minimum. And he was way less selfish this week: offering Claire some fish, sympathizing with Jin, giving up his supply of alcohol to Kate without hesitation, etc. I really liked Hurley's line to Jack: You're looking kinda goth. The title of the episode is "Do No Harm," but when Jack is treating Boone to save his life, he does many, many things that hurt Boone: stab him with a knitting needle to re-inflate his lung, run a needle and thread through his chest to close it up, yank his leg into re-alignment, and eventually, attempt to cut his leg off in order to better his chances to live. As Rachael pointed out, this last would be harm, not treatment. Thanks to Sun and Boone, Jack doesn't step over the line here. But did Jack step over the line by going through with his marriage? What happened to that marriage anyway? Me, I think it's long over. It was pre-tattoo, since there was no tattoo when Jack was wearing that tank-top in the clip-on/tie scene. And he doesn't seem to have a ring tan-line, either. Sarah's calling Jack her hero -- Is she Locke? Jack reversed her paralysis, just as the Island reversed Locke's -- against all odds, sounded like. Hmmm. What was their marriage like while it lasted? I'm in the Jack as admirable camp. During this episode, anyway. Eetah with Sara and Gail about how much pressure he was under. I know I would be way beyond cranky if the urgent demands piled up the way they did here. And an especial Eetah with Matthew about how Jack took his father's "lessons" and transmuted them into something humane. I tend to agree with Rachael, Pixi & Anne about their birth scene comments. I don't believe that Locke is a murderer. And I think that Boone is responsible for choosing the risk of staying on the plane, despite the warning creaks. But when Locke decided to leave the caves, he was all about his own pain and loss of faith. He did not consider how he could help Jack to help Boone. There were too many examples of people helping others despite their own pain and fear to allow me to gloss over Locke's absence in this episode. Sooo: All the various commitments here -- clip-on or tie? My opinions (Please feel free to argue! Some of these are off-the-cuff.) - Locke's commitment to Boone: clip-on -- once he carried Boone to the caves, he left to deal with his own pain
- Boone's commitment to Locke: tie -- he followed and listened and revealed a painful truth about himself and carried Locke when he could no longer walk
- Claire's commitment to the baby: tie -- she decided to push
- The group's commitment to the baby: we'll see once he gets back from Q'uartoth -- ooops! Wrong show. clip-on -- some will panic if the baby does something "special"
- Jin's commitment to Sun: tie -- he's so hurt that he can barely look at her, but he *cares*
- Sun's commitment to Jin: clip-on -- until they speak the same language
- Jack's commitment to Sarah: clip-on -- I'm sorry, but there were too many parallels between his marriage and a dying Boone. And were his vows really vows?: "I love you so much. And I always will." Jack's hesitation & delivery made them sound more like good-bye words than marriage promises to me.
- Shannen's commitment to Sayid: clip-on -- I think her feelings for Boone will strongly affect Shanyid.
- Sayid's commitment to Shannen: clip-on -- only hopes, not expectations. Uh huh.
- Boone's commitment to Shannen: tie -- his last thoughts were for her
- Shannen's commitment to Boone: tie -- I believe his death will haunt her forever
- Jack's commitment to saving lives: tie -- gives his own blood to Boone
- Jack's commitment to being the Leader: clip-on -- has done some things that have hurt the group at large -- and seems to be planning to do more in that vein.
- Jin's commitment to the group at large: tie -- responds to foreign-language distress calls, despite the near-lynching a few eps ago.
- Sun's commitment to healing: tie -- she helps just 'cause she can
- Hurley's commitment to the group: tie -- he helps just 'cause he can
- Locke's commitment to the Island: tie -- it gave him his legs back and something to believe in. It is alive to him
- Locke's commitment to the group: clip-on -- IMO, he helps others when it doesn't interfere with his purpose.
YMMV! (Ooooh! Listiness! Thanks to sunworshipper & Sue back in the VM thread for the idea!) Linda, zowie, intense episode P.S. But Hawaii still pretty. You are very, very missed! *hug* Come back to us! Vlad ps. I loved all your clip-on/tie designations! V.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 8, 2005 11:20:20 GMT -5
You are very, very missed! *hug* Come back to us! Vlad ps. I loved all your clip-on/tie designations! V. I concur! Linda, loved your posts! Also - Ohio pretty today. (Sunny, and dogwoods are in bloom!)
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Post by Karen on Apr 8, 2005 11:51:19 GMT -5
Hi all! I'm late to the party again! <snipped for space> Yay Sawyer, for keeping his asshat quotient to a minimum. And he was way less selfish this week: offering Claire some fish, sympathizing with Jin, giving up his supply of alcohol to Kate without hesitation, etc. Linda, zowie, intense episode <snipped> P.S. But Hawaii still pretty. Very pretty! Linda pretty, too. Loved your clip-on/tie list (sometimes the circumstances call for a clip-on and sometimes a tie is what is required?), and the observation that his friend might be the boy he defended in "White Rabbit". It was also in that episode that he chose to save Boone from drowning instead of the woman that was further out. (Just an observation that probably doesn't mean much.) I singled out your Sawyer comment because it made me think that he might be less grouchy from lack of headachey discomfort. I sometimes forget how the lack of physical comforts must contribute negatively to the Lost people's stress levels. {{Linda}} Miss you, too. I hope things at home are improving.
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Post by Dragon on Apr 8, 2005 14:48:01 GMT -5
You're absolutely right. Boone made a choice to climb up there. Boone was an adult, and could have said "No way am I climbing up there." And when he realized there was nothing to find, he could have and should have left the plane, as Locke was shouting at him to do. But, in my view, and this is only my opinion, Locke does need to take some responsibility for what happened to Boone; he was actively mentoring Boone, and so Boone might have felt that Locke's request carried more weight. And his actions afterwards: not saying what happened, disappearing back to the hatch, that wasn't a good thing to do. It was bound to make Jack and the others very suspicious, and may have hindered Jack's efforts to help Boone (in the sense of knowing the exact circumstances and possibly figuring out that the leg would have been crushed in the fall). I do not, under any circumstances, believe that Locke deserves to pay with his life, or get beat up, tortured, or exiled. I'm wondering if the island itself, with all the emphasis on black and white we've seen, makes people act much more extreme... And Hi! I find Locke a fascinating character, and look forward to seeing even more development in his character! ETA: Ah, and I see Gail is of similar mind as well. Something I forgot about in the aftermath of Boone's death, the radio call. Also how did Boone recognize the junk as heroin? Has he used it before? Also what was he looking for in the papers that seemed so important that even the creaking of the aircraft, the movement and Locke's yelling at him failed to penetrate his seemingly desperate hunt for whatever he thought would be there? Also, with Locke's apparent symbiotic relationship with the island, what better way (for the island) to get him to follow a lead (the vision, dream) than to threaten his mobility and seemingly superior abilities, leaving him humiliated and needy in the eyes of the rest of the survivors. Boone's injuries were terrible but Locke did not seem to realize that. I doubt that he even thought that Boone would die. He had to comply with what he thought he was supposed to do to keep in good with the island. It is a living thing to him. Boone's injuries and everything else led us all away from his discoveries on the plane. It may be very important in the future. As usual, the right hand is not watching what the left if doing. Dragon
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Post by Sara on Apr 8, 2005 15:38:11 GMT -5
Copied from the episode writeup at tvtome.com:
When Flight 815 first crashed, there were 48 survivors by the end of the pilot episode. In "Tabula Rasa," the U.S. Marshall died, leaving 47, a character named Joanna died in "White Rabbit," leaving 46, and the murder of Scott by Ethan in "Homecoming" left 45 survivors. Boone's death in this episode leaves 44. In a flashback, Jack's fiance Sarah is wearing a t-shirt that has a rather large '44' on both the front and back.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Apr 8, 2005 15:44:15 GMT -5
Copied from the episode writeup at tvtome.com: When Flight 815 first crashed, there were 48 survivors by the end of the pilot episode. In "Tabula Rasa," the U.S. Marshall died, leaving 47, a character named Joanna died in "White Rabbit," leaving 46, and the murder of Scott by Ethan in "Homecoming" left 45 survivors. Boone's death in this episode leaves 44. In a flashback, Jack's fiance Sarah is wearing a t-shirt that has a rather large '44' on both the front and back.Good catch, Sara!
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Post by Matthew on Apr 8, 2005 16:22:24 GMT -5
Copied from the episode writeup at tvtome.com: When Flight 815 first crashed, there were 48 survivors by the end of the pilot episode. In "Tabula Rasa," the U.S. Marshall died, leaving 47, a character named Joanna died in "White Rabbit," leaving 46, and the murder of Scott by Ethan in "Homecoming" left 45 survivors. Boone's death in this episode leaves 44. In a flashback, Jack's fiance Sarah is wearing a t-shirt that has a rather large '44' on both the front and back.Sunnuva...
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Post by Rachael on Apr 8, 2005 16:24:41 GMT -5
Kinda morbid to be countin' 'em down for us, don't you think?
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Post by Lola m on Apr 8, 2005 16:31:09 GMT -5
Something I forgot about in the aftermath of Boone's death, the radio call. Also how did Boone recognize the junk as heroin? Has he used it before? Also what was he looking for in the papers that seemed so important that even the creaking of the aircraft, the movement and Locke's yelling at him failed to penetrate his seemingly desperate hunt for whatever he thought would be there? Also, with Locke's apparent symbiotic relationship with the island, what better way (for the island) to get him to follow a lead (the vision, dream) than to threaten his mobility and seemingly superior abilities, leaving him humiliated and needy in the eyes of the rest of the survivors. Boone's injuries were terrible but Locke did not seem to realize that. I doubt that he even thought that Boone would die. He had to comply with what he thought he was supposed to do to keep in good with the island. It is a living thing to him. Boone's injuries and everything else led us all away from his discoveries on the plane. It may be very important in the future. As usual, the right hand is not watching what the left if doing. Dragon Eeetah on your observation about right hands and left hands. Everyone has secrets about their pasts and so on, but it's the secrets people are keeping about the island itself that will really hurt them. The small plane, the hatch, the details about the others on the island, the CFL, etc. They all need to be sharing everything they discover the minute they find it!
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Post by leftylady on Apr 8, 2005 18:04:41 GMT -5
As usual, the right hand is not watching what the left if doing. Dragon And need I remind everyone that the left hand is always sinister?
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Post by RAKSHA on Apr 8, 2005 19:57:47 GMT -5
Copied from the episode writeup at tvtome.com: When Flight 815 first crashed, there were 48 survivors by the end of the pilot episode. In "Tabula Rasa," the U.S. Marshall died, leaving 47, a character named Joanna died in "White Rabbit," leaving 46, and the murder of Scott by Ethan in "Homecoming" left 45 survivors. Boone's death in this episode leaves 44. In a flashback, Jack's fiance Sarah is wearing a t-shirt that has a rather large '44' on both the front and back. But what about Clare's baby? Can't it be argued that he's a survivor too?
Gail
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Post by Dragon on Apr 9, 2005 15:12:15 GMT -5
I was just thinking...This was the first episode where I thought Jack came across as a real flesh-and-blood person instead of a cardboard cutout LeaderMan and Superdoctor. His struggle to save Boone, against increasingly impossible odds, was heartbreaking. I wish he'd learn from it, instead of go off on a Vengeance! crusade against Locke, though...But Jack may be so hard-wired to save every patient that he can't learn anything when one dies - and that's a strength as well as a weakness.
GAIL I believe that Jack landed on that Island with a great deal more on his mind than his father's death. The death of his marriage, and perhaps more. No one has said anything about the possibility of any children from that marriage. He certainly went out of his way to get an extremely large tattoo for it to be just a whim. I believe it is all symbolic of what has happened to him, from his marriage to turning in his father. His integrity quotient is very high from all I've seen of him and his trying against all odds to save everyone he can, seems to come from some deep-rooted obcession that he isn't as good a doctor as he had thought he was and is trying to make up for what he feels is lacking on his part. He shouldn't immediatly assume Locke is a murderer, but to cut him some slack, it seems that there has been a lot of deaths on the island and he has had to face all of them. Seems as if he is nearly at his breaking point, with no one he can really trust. Everyone is keeping secrets, why, is the biggest question of all. Dragon
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