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Post by KMInfinity on Nov 13, 2005 8:52:43 GMT -5
Something I just remembered. I'm sure everyone else saw this too, but I don't recall seeing it mentioned here (if it was, I apologize): When Shannon goes to the hospital with her Wicked Stepmother, after her dad's accident, Jack pushes past them in the hallway. So this is the other half of how-Jack-met-his-wife, and Shannon is connected to Jack by her father's death. I read spec that Jack cost Shannon her father by choosing to operate on the woman who would one day be his wife instead of the man who was Shannon's father...a triage decision as to which one to save. I can't recall the exact situation from last season, does anyone remember? If true, it would lend credence to the idea that Shannon isn't really dead. Because that reveal would be a nice conflict down the road. Would TPTB plant evidence that her contract is up when it isn't? hehe I am fascinated with the whole "six degrees of separation" theme where everyone is connected, even when they don't realize it. That theme could really thrive with some attention to plotting and loose ends. I sure hope the writers haven't bitten off more than they can chew. I don't mind a continuity error here or there, nor a dropped ball when a character or plot turns out to be boring or not working, but I sure want a unifying structure/theme/purpose.
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Post by Sara on Nov 13, 2005 19:33:56 GMT -5
I suppose it would make me unpopular to suggest this as a major continuity error, and nothing more? Not at all. I think it's the most likely theory of all. Well, there is one other factor to consider--the way Michael and Jin reacted to what they were seeing. There was surprise in their expressions, but not the sorrow, dismay, or even sense of recognition you'd expect to see if they were indeed looking at one dead friend being cradled by another.
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Post by Sara on Nov 13, 2005 19:35:48 GMT -5
Not at all. I think it's the most likely theory of all. This is Lost. The simplest, most likely theory could never possibly be the right one. I'm sure the monkeys writers are frantically typing, trying to figure out how to use the continuity error, if it is one, right now. Well, considering they've probably got the next 3-4 episodes already in the can I imagine it would be a little tricky to work the retconning in there and have any hope of being successful.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 13, 2005 19:46:24 GMT -5
Not at all. I think it's the most likely theory of all. Well, there is one other factor to consider--the way Michael and Jin reacted to what they were seeing. There was surprise in their expressions, but not the sorrow, dismay, or even sense of recognition you'd expect to see if they were indeed looking at one dead friend being cradled by another. I don't get the connection here - I mean, Rob is talking about "who shot Shannon" right? Not "whether or not she was shot dead" isn't he? Maybe I have misunderstood things. This is very possible, as I have yet to see the ep - I've just read this thread here, and a synopsis elsewhere.
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Post by Sara on Nov 13, 2005 19:58:34 GMT -5
Well, there is one other factor to consider--the way Michael and Jin reacted to what they were seeing. There was surprise in their expressions, but not the sorrow, dismay, or even sense of recognition you'd expect to see if they were indeed looking at one dead friend being cradled by another. I don't get the connection here - I mean, Rob is talking about "who shot Shannon" right? Not "whether or not she was shot dead" isn't he? Maybe I have misunderstood things. This is very possible, as I have yet to see the ep - I've just read this thread here, and a synopsis elsewhere. No, you didn't misunderstand--I just didn't articulate my point very well. What I was trying to say is that, to me, Michael and Jin didn't visibly react the way you'd expect them to if they were indeed looking at Shannon lying dead/wounded in Sayid's arms--which makes me think they were actually looking at something else altogether. As in they're in an entirely different location, and whatever/whoever Ana fired at wasn't Shannon--the scenes were simply cut together to make us draw the conclusion we did: that Ana shot Shannon. Make any more sense now?
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Post by Linda on Nov 13, 2005 20:08:03 GMT -5
Hi all! Excellent posting! **nods a lot** Not much to add except: Hawaii still pretty. (Though occasionally burdened with scumbag criminals. ) 80's hair Jack! (Yes, I know his hair was covered with the surgical cap, but I know it was there. Waiting. ;D) Eetah with Sharky about Shannen's search for Walt having something to do with the fact that he was the one person on the island who believed in her enough to leave Vincent in her care. (Of course, this in no way disproves Rob's theory that Vincent knows more than he's barking -- Vincent could very well be the real puppetmaster.) So, young'uns like to be constricted and grown-ups, not so much. Well, here's hoping swaddled cradled stretchered Sawyer grows up before Aaron. 'Cause if he doesn't, that would just be sad. Jin's sympathy towards Sawyer is actually helped by the language barrier -- he reads Sawyer's expressions and takes his actions into account because he doesn't understand the hurtful words. Still, Michael is able to see beyond the words now too. Shannen's "believe me!" turns into "believe *in* me," (no entendre intended -- really!) Just like Hurley. Except when someone *does* say they believe in her, she gets shot instead of a picnic on the beach. Huh. BTW, did Sayid & Shannen practice safe sex? (I just know that Sawyer stashed all to condoms he could find for his own self -- although he probably bartered some of them away for the entertainment value of knowing who's getting frisky with whom. ;D) This season's flashbacks seem to all end at a moment where relationships are just becoming something new -- and probably twisted and damaged if Shannen/Boone is anything to go by. Jack and his patient, Michael and Walt, Locke and Helen, Hurley and his friend, Jin and Sun (just before the lies start, which would come up right after "hello" I'm thinking ). So if last season was mostly dad issues, would this season be mostly mom issues? Walt's mom, Locke's mom (only mentioned), Sun's mom, Shannen's step-mom (queen bitca of the list, although it's just because Walt's mom aimed her barbs at Michael). Brrrr. Even Hurley's mom cut him down. Huh. Sayid gives good wrath. Linda, did I mention Hawaii was still pretty?
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 13, 2005 20:51:01 GMT -5
This is Lost. The simplest, most likely theory could never possibly be the right one. I'm sure the monkeys writers are frantically typing, trying to figure out how to use the continuity error, if it is one, right now. Well, considering they've probably got the next 3-4 episodes already in the can I imagine it would be a little tricky to work the retconning in there and have any hope of being successful. [shadow=red,left,300]Trust No One.[/shadow]
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 13, 2005 22:22:28 GMT -5
I don't get the connection here - I mean, Rob is talking about "who shot Shannon" right? Not "whether or not she was shot dead" isn't he? Maybe I have misunderstood things. This is very possible, as I have yet to see the ep - I've just read this thread here, and a synopsis elsewhere. No, you didn't misunderstand--I just didn't articulate my point very well. What I was trying to say is that, to me, Michael and Jin didn't visibly react the way you'd expect them to if they were indeed looking at Shannon lying dead/wounded in Sayid's arms--which makes me think they were actually looking at something else altogether. As in they're in an entirely different location, and whatever/whoever Ana fired at wasn't Shannon--the scenes were simply cut together to make us draw the conclusion we did: that Ana shot Shannon. Make any more sense now? Yep. I gotchya now.
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Post by Dev(Rob) on Nov 15, 2005 13:21:01 GMT -5
Lost 2x06 _________ Sayid and Shannon with the kissing!!! Love the way he calls him Chewie all the time Libby said 'did you see the kids' as in plural! Does that mean some of the 'tailies' have lost children to the others as well? argh Walt! and the wierdness. Charlie is like super dad. Jack in the hospital! I told you that when his future wife crashed into the car of that other man who owned the Wedding business it would be Shannons father. That's why Boon had to take over the business. Boon is back baby yeah. I get the feeling only for this episode though Mr Eko is the dude. Nice handywork with the stretcher, proper little construction that is. So Cindy was the person that went missing, in the preview to this episode it said someone will die, is it her? Sayid with the "I love you" aww. It's Shannon who is dead and not Cindy. GOD DAMMIT. Is Cindy one of the others or did she just get taken?
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Post by Lola m on Nov 15, 2005 20:55:00 GMT -5
I don't get the connection here - I mean, Rob is talking about "who shot Shannon" right? Not "whether or not she was shot dead" isn't he? Maybe I have misunderstood things. This is very possible, as I have yet to see the ep - I've just read this thread here, and a synopsis elsewhere. No, you didn't misunderstand--I just didn't articulate my point very well. What I was trying to say is that, to me, Michael and Jin didn't visibly react the way you'd expect them to if they were indeed looking at Shannon lying dead/wounded in Sayid's arms--which makes me think they were actually looking at something else altogether. As in they're in an entirely different location, and whatever/whoever Ana fired at wasn't Shannon--the scenes were simply cut together to make us draw the conclusion we did: that Ana shot Shannon. Make any more sense now? Now that is really intriguing! I also wonder if we will see the resolution this week, or will we head entirely into the background of the Tailenders.
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Post by Sara on Nov 16, 2005 8:53:11 GMT -5
There was an interview with Michelle Rodriguez in yesterday's NY Daily News, and one of her comments in particular caught my eye:
"I'm an open book. It's hard for me to keep things inside. And there are times when I'm like, [Ana Lucia] is too intense, she's too tough..."
So clearly the Lost team made a conscious choice about Ana's demeanor and behavior during these first episodes she's been in. Perhaps we'll find out the reason why tonight.
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Post by Squeemonster on Nov 23, 2005 0:28:14 GMT -5
Nice review, Matthew! This was not one of my favorite episodes, but it did change my opinion of Shannon a little. I was actually starting to feel sorry for her and didn't want her to die (even though I knew she was going to be killed because I read the spoilers ). Which makes me appreciate this show all the more for making me sad to lose a character that I felt indifferent about, at best. I really liked your theory about why Charlie is carrying that statue around with him. I hope you're right.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 25, 2005 15:28:44 GMT -5
Excellent review, Matthew!
I hadn't thought of the traditional fiction cliche of killing off someone stepping outside the moral code - but you are spot on! It should not have been a surpise that Shannon was the next to die after her brother.
Also loved your list of the various communication blunders that were so prevalent in this ep. Right up to, as you rightly point out:
And then you also note that ultimately her death at the hands of Ana Lucia is really another example of screwed up communication.
I very much agree with you that this episode showed us the earlier Shannon. The very human and very young Shannon with hopes and dreams and plans. I think it showed us the Shannon that Sayid saw.
I think you really summed it up well when you said:
Again, very very nice job, Matthew! Bravo!
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 26, 2005 16:52:59 GMT -5
Nice work, Matthew. Nice work on the communication angle especially. Thanks for writing this!
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Post by Lola m on Nov 27, 2005 20:41:18 GMT -5
After reading Matthew's review, I had a few other thoughts about Shannon.
The portrait of Shannon we got in this episode’s flashbacks do a lot to explain the person we got to know on the island.
I mean, on the surface we could see a rich girl living off daddy’s money, sleeping 12 hours a day, bored and flitting from interest to interest. Except when you start to think about it . . . aren’t many 18 year olds still being supported by their parents? Still deciding what they want to do ? Perhaps starting to think seriously about their future, maybe looking at internships or other ways to get their foot in the door of their chosen profession by working insane hours for virtually no pay?
And as Matthew pointed out, our actual first glimpse of young!Shannon shows her working – teaching a class of young dancers. And after her father's death she's genuinely grieved and only later asks, reasonably in my opinion, about how he might have provided for her. Stepmom’s response strikes me as . . .well, rather self-serving. Call me cynical, but somehow I doubt Shannon’s dad intended for his 18 year old daughter to be tossed into the world to sink or swim. At the end, denied even the possibility of staying at her brother’s place in New York, she actually refuses his offer of a hand-out. “I’m going to figure out a way to make my own money.” I agree with Matthew that she would actually have been better to take the money and paid him back, and that this is just a rather typical young response - striking out at people because she is hurt. But still, it's not the typical greedy!Shannon reaction that we would have expected when we first met her. Or that you would have expected if you only had her stepmother's description of her to go on.
Makes you wonder what other experiences turned that Shannon into the Shannon that first scammed her brother and then slept with him in Australia. But, it looks like we won’t be getting those flashbacks.
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