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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 16:55:32 GMT -5
Yeah. The most interesting part for me was Eko's initial offer to his brother. His reasoning: "getting the heroin out of Nigeria so our people can't use it" and "you can buy a lot of vaccine with the money". Rationalizations yes, but they made me see Eko as a man who tried to choose the lesser evil whenever he could. And this, ironically, made him a more successful bad guy than most of the people he ran with and probably was why he ended up in a leadership position. Do you see him as Aaron to Yemi's Moses, or visa versa? *trying to fit that bit of conversation into the story* I thought it was interesting that his partner pushed him out of the plane. Almost as if he did it on purpose - to save him, knowing that the military would probably mistake him for his brother. Maybe Eko's example of trying to always pick the lesser of two evils rubbed off on him? I go back and forth on that one. To save him or to have him take the rap. Or maybe a bit of both - just wanting to leave him to whatever fate happened. What I also find interesting is that it's like the island was really really trying to get him. I mean, who else has another example of almost being on the island even before the crash?
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:00:20 GMT -5
**nods nods nods nods** And it made for another nice contrast / mirror to Charlie and his rationalizations. Charlie's rationalizations must have seemed pathetic to Eko. As far as sinning goes, Charlie's a piker compared to Eko. Eko knows what evil is. He knows it in his blood he knows it in his skin. He's carrying on for his brother and trying to live as a righteous man. He broods alot and he's trying to atone for all the horrible things he did. Does that make him like anyone we know? #rofl1# Hmmmmmmm. And now he's stuck on an island with Holland Manners Rose's husband. Guess he really meant the whole elevator "hell is earth" thing, eh? I think Charlie's rationalizations generally really made Eko want to smack him even more. But when he talked about his brother, and how it was his fault and he was the good kid, etc. . . . I think that shook Eko a little.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:02:22 GMT -5
Do you see him as Aaron to Yemi's Moses, or visa versa? *trying to fit that bit of conversation into the story* I thought it was interesting that his partner pushed him out of the plane. Almost as if he did it on purpose - to save him, knowing that the military would probably mistake him for his brother. Maybe Eko's example of trying to always pick the lesser of two evils rubbed off on him? I think the partner pushed him out to stay behind and take the rap, actually.. it looked like nastiness in his eyes there in the door of the plane. And well, I think Eko thinks that both halves play out for both him and Yemi: Eko could be Aaron, in having to speak for his more righteous brother, and in being the glib one. Which makes Yemi Moses, who is left behind while Aaron continues on the work of God. And Eko could be Moses, in being left behind while his brother departs to the Promised Land, forced to pay for his sins by remaining behind in this vail of tears. Eko the one who acted, even at the price of his own soul, allowing Yemi to be Aaron, to continue on in a world among the people, a role that is not for Eko due to his own actions. (not perfect tie-in there: Moses never shot anyone in the face.) *re-reads cliffs-notes version of Exodus, just to make sure* Nope! Very interesting and good points, Matthew! **giggles over the Moses line**
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:04:02 GMT -5
Okay. How the hell did Eko know what's in the statue? I mean, it doesn't sound like he'd been there before, or he'd KNOW where they were found. Maybe. He recognized the statue. He put the heroin in it himself, or had his men do it, back in Nigeria. Then they loaded the statues onto the plane. And then the plane came to the island drawn by polar bears and sharks. I think that about covers it. #rofl1# I'm picturing an anti-Santa sleigh, pulled by bears and sharks, handing out heroin to all the good messed-up little boys and girls.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:04:59 GMT -5
Ah. Of course. And also, "My dad used to take me hunting"? What dad? Evil kidney-stealing father? Evil kidney-stealing dad was my take on it. Which makes it a very sad and sort of pathetic, sort of creepy line.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:07:32 GMT -5
Here's a little tidbit I haven't seen mentioned. While Eko quoted the 23rd Psalm, I heard one phrase that differs from the actual text. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death" in the original became "Yea, though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death". I doubt if they'd quote everything perfectly except for that one twist unless they meant to. And, given Eko's stare-down of the shadow monster, walking through the "shadow of the valley of death" seemed very appropriate. Oooooh! Intriguing - especially with his whole stare-down contest win against the weird spinny black smoke island monster defence system thing. **pets Sharky's clever brain**
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:08:55 GMT -5
The very same. Bet Locke has a hard time picking out a card on Father's Day. I'd hate to be the Hallmark writer working on that sentiment: "Dad, You've always been to me a miserable, prevaricating puddle of organ-stealing crap..." Found one in our local Hallmark.... "I didn't know my dad when I was just a kid, he Left me high and dry. But then had a bum kidney. He wined me and he dined me and made me think he cared. He took me out bird hunting, and then the old man dared To con me into giving the organ that he needed. He shunned me once again, my stalking went unheeded. So on this Father's Day, I tell you Daddy Dear. I hope a flaming railroad tie gets driven up your rear!"
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:12:39 GMT -5
Okay - my power went out - kicking off my taping so by the time I got home - I only was able to see half the episode. It started during the trek with Charlie. Could someone fill me in on the first half. So far I gather - Mr. Eko - was a bad guy (which I am not surprised at all) who assumed the role of a priest after his brother - who really was a priest - saved him from going on board the Virgin Mary carrying heroin plane. Why was Charlie trekking with Mr. Eko? Claire threw him out of the tent - I gather she discovered the heroin? But meanwhile - Charlie has been stashing the heroin? Were we given any indications he has taken any? The monster is a swirly smoky thing that couldn't handle the Eko glare of doom. Kate gave Sawyer a haircut - I gather I missed that. Any fun dialogue there? Walt is chatting with Michael (maybe) and has a plan to go get him? Everybody did the whole musical montage of making nice at the end. Claire mentioned the statue to Mr. Eko, just in conversation. She was telling him the baby's name and he said a litte bit about Aaron and Moses and she said something like "you're very religious, Charlie is too, he found this statue" etc. etc. So, Mr. Eko knew what it was and stormed over and broke the statue open and Claire freaked out and Charlie freaked out and she yelled at Charlie and then Mr. Eko started dragging him thru the jungle to make him show him where the statue came from.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:13:53 GMT -5
Charlie's rationalizations must have seemed pathetic to Eko. As far as sinning goes, Charlie's a piker compared to Eko. Eko knows what evil is. He knows it in his blood he knows it in his skin. He's carrying on for his brother and trying to live as a righteous man. He broods alot and he's trying to atone for all the horrible things he did.
Does that make him like anyone we know? And love? Yes it does. The one time we saw Mr. Eko go crazy and kill (2 men at once?) was when the drug runner called him *soulless*. Just googled the definition of *soulless* - Lacking sensitivity or the capacity for deep feeling.Mr. Eko had a huge capacity for deep feeling - thus, the sacrifice he made for his brother. Oooh - very nice point!
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:15:36 GMT -5
Okay - my power went out - kicking off my taping so by the time I got home - I only was able to see half the episode. It started during the trek with Charlie. Could someone fill me in on the first half. So far I gather - Mr. Eko - was a bad guy (which I am not surprised at all) who assumed the role of a priest after his brother - who really was a priest - saved him from going on board the Virgin Mary carrying heroin plane. Why was Charlie trekking with Mr. Eko? Claire threw him out of the tent - I gather she discovered the heroin? But meanwhile - Charlie has been stashing the heroin? Were we given any indications he has taken any? The monster is a swirly smoky thing that couldn't handle the Eko glare of doom. Kate gave Sawyer a haircut - I gather I missed that. Any fun dialogue there? Walt is chatting with Michael (maybe) and has a plan to go get him? Everybody did the whole musical montage of making nice at the end. The show started with a scene of Eko's brother (as a kid, 10-ish) being handed a gun by some baddies (who had driven up to carry off the kids from their village) and being told to shoot an old man. The chief baddie kept yelling at the brother, who wouldn't pull the trigger. Finally, Eko ran up (wearing the cross necklace) and grabs the gun from his brother and shoots the old man. No doubt he was motivated out of fear that the baddie would eventually strafe his brother if he failed to carry out the execution. But, the bad guy's impressed and takes Eko from his village. Claire casually mentioned to Eko how religious Charlie was, how he carried around a statue of the Virgin Mary all the time. Eko asked to see the statue, then smashed it with his stick, exposing the heroin to Claire. At this point, he runs down Charlie and demands Charlie take him to where he discovered the plane. Charlie finally caves under Eko's glare o' doom and they start the trek together. Eko's brother got shot and was more or less dragged/thrown onto the plane. It was one of Eko's henchmen who barred Eko from getting on, for whatever reason. Can't remember any specific haircut dialogue. They were joking around about it some. At this point, I think Charlie's hoarding heroin as kind of a security blanket. There was no specific indication that he's using it. Walt and Michael shared a chat on the Dharma board. I think Walt's last typed line was "You need to come...." At which point Jack walked up and interrupted and nothing more was seen. Beyond that, you'll have to depend on the memories of other S'cubies or TWOP. Yeah, what he said. ;D I figured someone would have alreay done a mucd better recap. Bravo, Sharky!
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:20:01 GMT -5
Here's a little tidbit I haven't seen mentioned. While Eko quoted the 23rd Psalm, I heard one phrase that differs from the actual text. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death" in the original became "Yea, though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death". I doubt if they'd quote everything perfectly except for that one twist unless they meant to. And, given Eko's stare-down of the shadow monster, walking through the "shadow of the valley of death" seemed very appropriate. Oh, cool! The Valley of Death = The Island of the Lost? Are Locke, Charlie and Mr. Eko the only 3 people on the island (that we have been shown) who have seen the Shadow and survived? And what was with the explosions right before its appearance? I like that! I think they are the only ones who've faced it right down like that, but didn't Jack and Kate also kind of see it toward the end of last season? Not that up close, but see it when it was coming for Locke? We've sort of seen something like explosions before, when it was all invisible monster, explosions could have explained the thrashing plants and so on. But we haven't seen it quite like that before, have we? Maybe it somehow explains the smoke? Also, black smoke was what you'd see before the Others came, right? So . . . does that mean the Others are gonna show up again soon? Did the Tailies kind of "bring them along" somehow?
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:20:46 GMT -5
Found one in our local Hallmark.... "I didn't know my dad when I was just a kid, he Left me high and dry. But then had a bum kidney. He wined me and he dined me and made me think he cared. He took me out bird hunting, and then the old man dared To con me into giving the organ that he needed. He shunned me once again, my stalking went unheeded. So on this Father's Day, I tell you Daddy Dear. I hope a flaming railroad tie gets driven up your rear!" Aw. That one always makes me cry. #rofl1# Well, you're such a tender-hearted gal, Karen. ;D
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Post by Sharky on Jan 12, 2006 17:25:42 GMT -5
I think the partner pushed him out to stay behind and take the rap, actually.. it looked like nastiness in his eyes there in the door of the plane. And well, I think Eko thinks that both halves play out for both him and Yemi: Eko could be Aaron, in having to speak for his more righteous brother, and in being the glib one. Which makes Yemi Moses, who is left behind while Aaron continues on the work of God. And Eko could be Moses, in being left behind while his brother departs to the Promised Land, forced to pay for his sins by remaining behind in this vail of tears. Eko the one who acted, even at the price of his own soul, allowing Yemi to be Aaron, to continue on in a world among the people, a role that is not for Eko due to his own actions. (not perfect tie-in there: Moses never shot anyone in the face.) *re-reads cliffs-notes version of Exodus, just to make sure* Nope! Very interesting and good points, Matthew! **giggles over the Moses line** Also, in the hands of Moses, Aaron's rod began to bud as a miraculous sign that Pharoah needed to let the Hebrews go. Maybe someone should ask Claire if she's noticed anything peculiar during diaper changes... Plus, at one point Moses threw his rod down and it turned into a snake. Pharoah's magicians duplicated the feat, but Moses' snake ate the ones created by Pharoah's guys. Could be a confrontation between Eko's Jesus stick and the snaky shadow monster is imminent.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:27:39 GMT -5
Haven't read all the posts (sorry). In fact, haven't really been keeping up carefully with LOST (watching, but not discussing). But I found last night's ep interesting. I "like" (am intrigued, drawn in by) Eko's character far more than either Jack or Sawyer. Re the smoke monster. Interesting. Would never have predicted that. So---definitely supernatural. Explains the smoke they've seen? I'm going with EVIL smoke monster (ESM)---black, creepy, etc. So, if it's evil did it turn away from Eko because: a) he's even eviler? i.e. "my evil is bigger and badder than your evil so get out of my face" b) he's even eviler and the ESM prefers to prey on the weak and innocent? c) after deciding to "become" a priest he did in fact at some point experience true conversion and the ESM recognized (and fled from) true goodness? This is the very very most intriguing part of the whole stare down scene for me. And I'm betting it will remain a question for a while. Keep us on our toes. Ooooh. I've thought of the possibity of it being Walt, the Others, and the Dharma project people adding another element to their experiment. But I hadn't thought of a HAL kind of thing. 'Cuz that puts a very interesting spin on the word "dad" typed there. And the shark, too! ;D Very good examples of good things, but also good things twisting. All this would fit nicely into the idea of experimentation. Have these things happen and then see how people react. And how does that reaction change when presented with a challenge. ;D
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Post by Lola m on Jan 12, 2006 17:37:42 GMT -5
It was a better episode than we've had lately, I'll say that. I think that they made a mistake showing us the evil smoke monster so clearly - it looked mechanical. Maybe that's the point; it's a Dharma machine? Eko is an interesting character. That's quite a backstory he has, but I'd still like to know how he wound up on a flight from Australia. I've been wondering about that and have had some kind of thought that maybe he was tracing the path the plane was supposed to have taken? Maybe to find out whatever happened to his brother? Oooooh! More very very intriguing thoughts. An Id monster. That is very possible. And I hadn't thought to compare Locke's and Eko's reactions to the ESM like that. I think they are definitely setting up Locke and Eko to be contrast and compare characters, so hearing what Eko has to say about the experience is going to be important, I think.
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