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Post by Anne barely here on Jan 13, 2006 9:45:12 GMT -5
That's not what I expected it to look like. ...And Mr. Eko is meaner than it. I bet it doesn't always look that way. I mean, sometimes it looks like a polar bear. And sometimes like a black horse. And sometimes...okay, so I'm making a huge assumption here. I'm betting, though, that Locke and Eko didn't see the same thing. I had this flash, during the Black Smoke Monster scene: "the thing on the island shows you your soul". Don't know if it means anything. That's a good one, little sis - That's why it keeps changing form; the shape of the island spirit/ESM/Big Roaring Thing/wassname comes from the mind of the person it encounters. Walt made a polar bear, Jack saw his father, Kate saw a horse, and the first night, the collected fears of the group produced the big roaring monster. I know what you're saying, but I'm too groggy to really explain myself. It's the Id Monster from Forbidden Planet, like I've been saying all along. Now, where's the Krell machinery? Under the bunker, maybe? Anne, yes, still
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 13, 2006 19:28:24 GMT -5
rewatching Significance of heroin inside Virgin Mary? probably already discussed in the episode when the plane was found. Maybe no significance, just a common trafficking strategy. Aaron speaking as proxy for Moses, Eko as proxy for Yami (in shooting for him and taking up the priesthood in his place), Charlie as proxy for Brother (in that he carrying on the addiction habit, that's a little fuzzy) Numbers on the safe mean anything? And as an addendum to my questions about language, is it realistic that given what we know about his back story that his English would be as good as it is? Of course, we don't know how long he acted as a priest, which could have been enough time to get educated and learn English. Also, screen caps of the images in the black smoke
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Post by Lola m on Jan 13, 2006 20:20:55 GMT -5
Thoughts (hey 8 pages already, well received episode, huh?) I know next to nothing about Nigeria, so I'm wondering whether it's realistic that, aside from the chattering of the extras, all the flashback scenes are in English. Or are we to understand that they actually are all conversing in whatever language but they're just shown speaking English (because none of the actors speak the language)? I was betting that they had not sufficient actors that spoke the right language or languages, but I figured I'd google to be sure and found: English (official), Hausa, Yoruba, Igbo (Ibo), and Fulani. So, I guess I could make a case for them speaking English since it looks like it might be used as a default language whenever a gathering doesn't all share the same initial language. Of course, I tend to think that when just Eko and his brother were speaking, for example, that they wouldn't speak English. But that's probably the whole not sufficient actors thing. Ah, yes! That intriguing comment. I'm still wondering if the fact that so many of the folks stranded on the island are "not good" figures into this somehow. ;D Oh, I hadn't thought of that imagery. Lovely. **nods** Lots of subtle and not-so-subtle parallels between Mr. Eko and Locke.
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Post by Karen on Jan 15, 2006 23:32:14 GMT -5
rewatching Significance of heroin inside Virgin Mary? probably already discussed in the episode when the plane was found. Maybe no significance, just a common trafficking strategy.Aaron speaking as proxy for Moses, Eko as proxy for Yami (in shooting for him and taking up the priesthood in his place), Charlie as proxy for Brother (in that he carrying on the addiction habit, that's a little fuzzy) Numbers on the safe mean anything? And as an addendum to my questions about language, is it realistic that given what we know about his back story that his English would be as good as it is? Of course, we don't know how long he acted as a priest, which could have been enough time to get educated and learn English. Also, screen caps of the images in the black smokeInteresting thought about wondering if there was significance to the heroin being inside the Virgin Mary. Charlie is Catholic. Maybe she is protecting him from it. I'm assuming that he isn't using. The Virgins all looked intact to me.
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Post by rich on Jan 16, 2006 12:22:46 GMT -5
Interesting thought about wondering if there was significance to the heroin being inside the Virgin Mary. Charlie is Catholic. Maybe she is protecting him from it. I'm assuming that he isn't using. The Virgins all looked intact to me.Isn't that the definition of virgin?
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Post by Jan on Jan 16, 2006 12:43:14 GMT -5
I hope this is the right place to praise Sara's review to the skies.
I especially liked:
"...and yet he had no fear. Is this because Eko has come to terms with who he once was? Because he had faith that God was with him? Or perhaps it’s both—after all, it’s not like those two options are mutually exclusive. Or, to take it one step further, perhaps what we’re suppose to take away from Eko’s encounter with the smoke is that both those concepts boil down to the same thing—acceptance of our own humanity, with all the limitations and flaws that come with it."
This is something I think about every day, in one way or anther.
Beautiful analysis.
*Hands Sara many boxes of Double Stuffs*
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 16, 2006 12:59:35 GMT -5
Interesting thought about wondering if there was significance to the heroin being inside the Virgin Mary. Charlie is Catholic. Maybe she is protecting him from it. I'm assuming that he isn't using. The Virgins all looked intact to me.Isn't that the definition of virgin? But also, that's a good point.
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Post by Sara on Jan 16, 2006 13:34:17 GMT -5
I hope this is the right place to praise Sara's review to the skies. I especially liked: "...and yet he had no fear. Is this because Eko has come to terms with who he once was? Because he had faith that God was with him? Or perhaps it’s both—after all, it’s not like those two options are mutually exclusive. Or, to take it one step further, perhaps what we’re suppose to take away from Eko’s encounter with the smoke is that both those concepts boil down to the same thing—acceptance of our own humanity, with all the limitations and flaws that come with it." This is something I think about every day, in one way or anther. Beautiful analysis. *Hands Sara many boxes of Double Stuffs* Mmmm... Double Stufs...
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 16, 2006 13:58:35 GMT -5
Sara – Great job as always on the review.
I definitely agree that Eko’s backstory ranks as one of the best we’ve seen. Loved the “symmetry” you mentioned, with the gunshots that started, and then reversed, the paths for the brothers.
Wonderful research on the Bible quotes – thank you.
I sadly must agree about Charlie – love the Kinks’ song quotage that supports your contention of dark times ahead for Charlie.
On the whole glaring “brother thing” going on in the ep . . . did you notice how Charlie still blames his brother for what went wrong? He’s not taken the crucial step of accepting responsibility for his own fate and actions.
You are so right about the line of Eko’s about righteousness and evil being central to the series and what it is meant to examine. The thing is . . . I think the message is basically that there’s a way that good and evil are diametrically opposed, truly far apart, on opposite ends of the spectrum. AND there’s a way that they’re forever, and closely, joined – the latter being the way we experience them, in the real world.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 16, 2006 14:00:49 GMT -5
Isn't that the definition of virgin? But also, that's a good point. It's hard to say for sure, but I think Charlie might very well be using, and what we see is his "as yet untapped" stash. There's no reason to open up the statues until he's ready to use what's inside. His defensiveness and lying said "using" to me - or else, he's very much on the brink of doing so.
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Post by Jan on Jan 16, 2006 15:47:33 GMT -5
But also, that's a good point. It's hard to say for sure, but I think Charlie might very well be using, and what we see is his "as yet untapped" stash. There's no reason to open up the statues until he's ready to use what's inside. His defensiveness and lying said "using" to me - or else, he's very much on the brink of doing so. Leaving himself the option of using would make him just as defensive, I think, as actually doing so. All part of the process of denial/lying that creates the guilt that creates defensiveness.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jan 16, 2006 15:51:51 GMT -5
It's hard to say for sure, but I think Charlie might very well be using, and what we see is his "as yet untapped" stash. There's no reason to open up the statues until he's ready to use what's inside. His defensiveness and lying said "using" to me - or else, he's very much on the brink of doing so. Leaving himself the option of using would make him just as defensive, I think, as actually doing so. All part of the process of denial/lying that creates the guilt that creates defensiveness. I'm more inclined to think that he's just being tempted rather than actually using. The way he was looking his stash in the end indicated that to me. I'm thinking that if he were using again, he wouldn't be so anxious.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 16, 2006 16:14:18 GMT -5
Leaving himself the option of using would make him just as defensive, I think, as actually doing so. All part of the process of denial/lying that creates the guilt that creates defensiveness. I'm more inclined to think that he's just being tempted rather than actually using. The way he was looking his stash in the end indicated that to me. I'm thinking that if he were using again, he wouldn't be so anxious. Yes - agree. Basically, my feeling was that it was hard to tell for sure whether Charlie had been using again or not. I don't think the lying and defensiveness definitely said "using for sure" - but it made me wonder if he was using again, and he certainly could be. The only thing that I thought was definitive was that Charlie hasn't truly let go of the addiction. Currently using or not, we can see that he remains very vulnerable to the drug.
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Post by Sharky on Jan 16, 2006 16:19:05 GMT -5
But also, that's a good point. It's hard to say for sure, but I think Charlie might very well be using, and what we see is his "as yet untapped" stash. There's no reason to open up the statues until he's ready to use what's inside. His defensiveness and lying said "using" to me - or else, he's very much on the brink of doing so. Possible, very possible. Although there's not a clear causal relationship there. The dishonesty could be covering shame that he can't put it completely behind him, that he still feels the need to keep the stash "just in case" things get bad enough to justify using again. As to Virgin Mary, something of great worth placed inside her by a higher power with no action of her own...
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Post by karenH on Jan 16, 2006 16:26:15 GMT -5
I'm more inclined to think that he's just being tempted rather than actually using. The way he was looking his stash in the end indicated that to me. I'm thinking that if he were using again, he wouldn't be so anxious. Yes - agree. Basically, my feeling was that it was hard to tell for sure whether Charlie had been using again or not. I don't think the lying and defensiveness definitely said "using for sure" - but it made me wonder if he was using again, and he certainly could be. The only thing that I thought was definitive was that Charlie hasn't truly let go of the addiction. Currently using or not, we can see that he remains very vulnerable to the drug. Isn't that the MO of an addict? It's a daily struggle. Kind of like the countdown of the Dharma clock. And if you don't use the right combination, it all goes phlooey. Unless, of course, you stare it in the face and take responsibility for your own destiny. Charlie has yet to take responsibility for the choice he made which lead to his addiction. He's still whining about it being his brother's fault.
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