|
|
Post by Matthew on Jan 26, 2006 13:54:52 GMT -5
Whoa! Good catch (the red). I can understand wanting to save some--actually all--of the heroin. It was originally formulated in the 19th century to be a less-addicting medical painkiller than morphine. In fact, Wikipedia says: From 1898 through to 1910 it was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children. Here's a pic of a Bayer Heroin bottle.  Forgetting the law of unintended consequences for a minute, it is an excellent painkiller. And over time there will be many occasions (think of Boone) when an anaesthetic would be useful. Therefore worth saving. Unless Locke doesn't tell Jack about it, of course.  Good god amighty: they'd be better off if they had a chemist who could turn it into morphine, or laudanum. Heroin is the most instantly physiologically addictive of the opiates, far worse than morphine.. Only good application I can see for using heroin for painkilling is for someone terminal. *shudders* *Grabs Heroin bottle pic* Thanks, btw, I've told people that it used to be a trademarked name like Jell-o and Kleenex, and had them not believe me. Oh, and it was also marketed as a treatment for burny addiction(like Methadone is used to help with Heroin withdrawal): they thought it was a less damaging drug than cocaine. Freud recomended that usage. For a year or two, then reversed himself.  |
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Jan 26, 2006 15:15:38 GMT -5
Whoa! Good catch (the red). I can understand wanting to save some--actually all--of the heroin. It was originally formulated in the 19th century to be a less-addicting medical painkiller than morphine. In fact, Wikipedia says: From 1898 through to 1910 it was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children. Here's a pic of a Bayer Heroin bottle. Forgetting the law of unintended consequences for a minute, it is an excellent painkiller. And over time there will be many occasions (think of Boone) when an anaesthetic would be useful. Therefore worth saving. Unless Locke doesn't tell Jack about it, of course. Brainshare! ;D Agree that the heroin is a valuable thing to keep, on that Island of Limited Resources. It may not exactly be anyone's first "drug of choice" when it comes to pain relief, but who knows what sort of injuries or illnesses they'll have to deal with in the future. |
|
|
|
Post by Wendy on Jan 26, 2006 20:11:55 GMT -5
OK - well, some random impressions: - Libby is lying to Hurely about him stepping on her foot - like Charlie with his lies, she doesn't "answer the question," but tries to distract him.
- Had to love the Sawyer line to Hurley: "You gotta load you need to drop in."
- Lots of fire & water imagery - diametrically opposed substances in some ways, but both purify.
I think you may be right on this. Monnie said the same thing last night. Something was just "off" about that. |
|
|
|
Post by Wendy on Jan 26, 2006 20:15:23 GMT -5
Is Locke doing what Sawyer used to do, hoarding vital stuff to gain advantage? Guns, drugs, what else is in that locked room? I think Locke wants to gain control at a moment of crisis. I was glad to see that Locke saved the heroin. It could come in handy for medicinal purposes. Though seeing him put it in with the weapons, makes me wonder if he has some idea to use it against "The Others" somehow. |
|
|
|
Post by Wendy on Jan 26, 2006 20:20:48 GMT -5
Definitely a good possibility. But whether her interest in Hurley is sincere or not - she is hiding something. Psychologist. I'm giving good odds that she was at the facility that Hurley was commited to, originally. That was my original thought too. There is definitely something up with her. |
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jan 27, 2006 8:42:29 GMT -5
OK - well, some random impressions: - Libby is lying to Hurely about him stepping on her foot - like Charlie with his lies, she doesn't "answer the question," but tries to distract him.
- Had to love the Sawyer line to Hurley: "You gotta load you need to drop in."
- Lots of fire & water imagery - diametrically opposed substances in some ways, but both purify.
I think you may be right on this. Monnie said the same thing last night. Something was just "off" about that. I like the idea of Libby somehow knowing Hurley from before the island - from the institution or knowing he's rich. There's just something slightly . . . off about her. And it's either that or she's another secret Other spy. ;D Hmmmmmm. Wonder if we'll be getting a Libby flashback. And where are Rose and Bernard lately? Well, other than in their tent making up for the time they were apart . . . |
|
|
|
Post by Karen on Jan 27, 2006 11:47:47 GMT -5
I think you may be right on this. Monnie said the same thing last night. Something was just "off" about that. I like the idea of Libby somehow knowing Hurley from before the island - from the institution or knowing he's rich. There's just something slightly . . . off about her. And it's either that or she's another secret Other spy. ;D Hmmmmmm. Wonder if we'll be getting a Libby flashback. And where are Rose and Bernard lately? Well, other than in their tent making up for the time they were apart . . . Oh, oh! My Buffy friend and I were talking about if there might be a *mole* in the group - and the first person I thought of was Libby. Wasn't she also closest to the woman who went missing on the Tailies trek over to the other side of the island? Rose and Bernard - making time. LOL! I had a question about them. If the Others only take the good ones - why did they leave Rose and Bernard? They seem pretty good to me. Were they only taking kids? We need a Rose and Bernard backstory! |
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jan 27, 2006 14:04:10 GMT -5
I like the idea of Libby somehow knowing Hurley from before the island - from the institution or knowing he's rich. There's just something slightly . . . off about her. And it's either that or she's another secret Other spy. ;D Hmmmmmm. Wonder if we'll be getting a Libby flashback. And where are Rose and Bernard lately? Well, other than in their tent making up for the time they were apart . . . Oh, oh! My Buffy friend and I were talking about if there might be a *mole* in the group - and the first person I thought of was Libby. Wasn't she also closest to the woman who went missing on the Tailies trek over to the other side of the island? Rose and Bernard - making time. LOL! I had a question about them. If the Others only take the good ones - why did they leave Rose and Bernard? They seem pretty good to me. Were they only taking kids? We need a Rose and Bernard backstory! **nods** Unless they're gonna reveal something amazingly surprising about Rose and/or Bernard, it does make me suspicious about that whole "taking the good" thing. I go back to wondering "what do you mean by good"? Maybe just "good for our purposes". |
|
thelittlestvampirelurking
Guest
|
Post by thelittlestvampirelurking on Jan 27, 2006 20:16:52 GMT -5
Hey there,
I had a free moment, so I decided to read through and see what y'all had to say. First ep commentary I've read. I forgot how fun it was!
I had a couple thoughts....
I'm suprised how many people seem to think of Locke as "bad" and Eko as "good." Locke has obviously acted in less-than-great ways on the island and to some extent beforehand- but Eko was a drugrunner/warlord.
I think the island has a lot of symbolism and tension between good and evil in that all people have some of both in them. Maybe it's purgatory, but more I think it's a bunch of people wrestling with their better and worse halves.
I should go read the commentary about eko's backstory, but I was very effected by it. Frighteningly, I could totally relate. I'm very much one to take the heat for other people. The thing is that on the one hand it's noble to sacrifice yourself to save another person. On the other hand- it can be a sign of needing to be in control of a situation so much that you are willing tohurt yourself and others if necessary so as to avoid being the victim (or seeing another victimized which is equally dis-empowering.) (BTW-we saw this with Jin as well.)
I guess what I'm saying is that Eko could be a hero, or he could be a power-high control freak. No way to tell at this point.
It's interesting because Locke also sacrificed part of himself- his kidney, not his soul. But Locke was a victim in that whole thing. Maybe Locke seems more frightening as an authority figure because we see in him someone who has always been out-of-control, who is only now in-control on this island.
I think it's reasonable that he kept the heroin. It's a powerful substance. Locke wants to control the guns, the drugs, he wants to shore up power. I don't think it's a bad thing and that he wants to hurt anyone, I just think he needs to fill the void. I think Locke would be a good leader if it was not for that need to repair himself, and his consequent self-delusion.
I'm not sure how I feel about Eko, or about his religion thing. The fact that he let people beleive he was a priest (and even let himself becom one) in order to escape jail leaces a big question mark for me.
Oh, and poor Charlie. why the Heck isn'y Libby stepping up to talk to him?
|
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Jan 27, 2006 21:23:12 GMT -5
Hey there, I had a free moment, so I decided to read through and see what y'all had to say. First ep commentary I've read. I forgot how fun it was! I had a couple thoughts.... I'm suprised how many people seem to think of Locke as "bad" and Eko as "good." Locke has obviously acted in less-than-great ways on the island and to some extent beforehand- but Eko was a drugrunner/warlord. I think the island has a lot of symbolism and tension between good and evil in that all people have some of both in them. Maybe it's purgatory, but more I think it's a bunch of people wrestling with their better and worse halves. I think that too. Love the insights here on the various ways we saw people sacrifice themselves for others - and their position as victim, witness to victimization, victimizer . . . nice thoughts there, TLV. Thanks for sharing them. Well put. Agree that it's not a black and white "Locke bad/Eko good" kind of proposition - or that it's being presented that way. As you mentioned earlier in the post, all the characters are two-sided. And though the characters vary in some ways, in the extent to which they've integrated their disparate selves and understood themselves, and matured (repaired themselves) they are all struggling with major issues and a need to heal and grow and better define themselves. |
|
|
|
Post by thelittlestvampire on Jan 27, 2006 22:36:13 GMT -5
Hey Spring! Your reply made me think- it's interesting that Locke sacrificed his kidney to save his dad, but he really needed something in return. When he was later scorned he could not make it be OK with him.
On the other hand, Eko sacrificed his soul for his brother and didn't seem hurt at all that his brother now scorned him. I know it's a totally different situation, but I think it speaks to the idea of locus of control.
Couple more thoughts...
Firstly, when Locke says "Charlie wants to save the baby because he can't save himself" I think we can read it as "Locke wants to save the baby (Charlie) because he can't (or couldn't) save himself." I think this partly because whenever people psychobabble about other people it's mostly about them, and also because it helps me explain the crazy baby scene with grown men in daipers. A little on-the-nose perhaps, but I think this was part of the meaning.
And another thing...
I think this episode makes it clear that Charlie didn't become a real addict untill he didn't have anyone to take care of anymore. Though it was wrong of his mom and his brother to rely on him so, Charlie depended on their reliance on him to keep him together. Even though he was already using, and his career dwindling, it was only once he didn't have someone to save that he really went off the deep end. This bodes poorly for his role on the island now that he's been kicked out of Claire and the baby's life.
|
|
|
|
Post by William the Bloody on Jan 27, 2006 22:36:37 GMT -5
Definitely a good possibility. But whether her interest in Hurley is sincere or not - she is hiding something. Psychologist. I'm giving good odds that she was at the facility that Hurley was commited to, originally. This is my thought too... And hows this for even another connection: Is it possible she was the shrink for the guy that had the numbers originally? The one that Hurley played Connect 4 with and kept reciting them? That might be why she remembers Hurley but Hurley never necessarily saw her. She was observing the other guy and saw Hurley was his "friend." And now, on the island.. the creepy stuff.. Does she know about hte numbers yet? What did the nuts pilot tell Libby? Vlad |
|
|
|
Post by William the Bloody on Jan 27, 2006 22:47:41 GMT -5
Whoa! Good catch (the red). I can understand wanting to save some--actually all--of the heroin. It was originally formulated in the 19th century to be a less-addicting medical painkiller than morphine. In fact, Wikipedia says: From 1898 through to 1910 it was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children. Here's a pic of a Bayer Heroin bottle. Forgetting the law of unintended consequences for a minute, it is an excellent painkiller. And over time there will be many occasions (think of Boone) when an anaesthetic would be useful. Therefore worth saving. Unless Locke doesn't tell Jack about it, of course. Thank you for stating this! I have been saying it all along that the heroin shouldn't be destroyed but should be given to the doctor for use as a medicine. There are going to be plenty of times he will need to perform surgery (as has already been evidenced) or people are going to break bones and you jsut do not waste ANYTHING when you are shipwrecked. Heroin is neither evil or good. It's an inantimate object.. Vlad |
|
|
|
Post by RAKSHA on Jan 27, 2006 23:54:37 GMT -5
Whoa! Good catch (the red). I can understand wanting to save some--actually all--of the heroin. It was originally formulated in the 19th century to be a less-addicting medical painkiller than morphine. In fact, Wikipedia says: From 1898 through to 1910 it was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children. Here's a pic of a Bayer Heroin bottle. Forgetting the law of unintended consequences for a minute, it is an excellent painkiller. And over time there will be many occasions (think of Boone) when an anaesthetic would be useful. Therefore worth saving. Unless Locke doesn't tell Jack about it, of course. Thank you for stating this! I have been saying it all along that the heroin shouldn't be destroyed but should be given to the doctor for use as a medicine. There are going to be plenty of times he will need to perform surgery (as has already been evidenced) or people are going to break bones and you jsut do not waste ANYTHING when you are shipwrecked. Heroin is neither evil or good. It's an inantimate object.. Vlad
I can't help but take a dim view of Locke's secrecy. He shouldn't have told everyone about it, but he should definitely have told Jack.
I like Locke; he's a fascinating character; and he's neither hero nor villain, and has suffered greatly. But he is to a certain extent in thrall to the Island, and willing to endanger others for the sake of appeasing or obeying what he thinks the Island is telling him. So I like him, wish him well, think he's mostly a very useful man to have around, but cannot trust him.
I do trust Eko's fundamental decency and think that he is in general more trustworthy at this time than is Locke, despite his vicious past. We don't know if he just told people he was a priest, and assumed some functions of a priest, or actually took holy orders. He could be a real priest. But so far, he has not tried to harm any of the Lostaways and has exerted a calming influence on Ana-Lucia (which is sorely needed). Eko seems to me a man of faith and reason; he believes in his spiritual truth, but can also see the other side, the practical and earthbound and rational.
Locke has a hidden agenda again; as he did throughout most of Season One. If Eko has a hidden agenda; we haven't seen it.
GAIL 
|
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Jan 28, 2006 11:23:32 GMT -5
Psychologist. I'm giving good odds that she was at the facility that Hurley was commited to, originally. This is my thought too... And hows this for even another connection: Is it possible she was the shrink for the guy that had the numbers originally? The one that Hurley played Connect 4 with and kept reciting them? That might be why she remembers Hurley but Hurley never necessarily saw her. She was observing the other guy and saw Hurley was his "friend." And now, on the island.. the creepy stuff.. Does she know about hte numbers yet? What did the nuts pilot tell Libby? Vlad Ya know, assuming for a moment that she's not a mole for the Others, I like the idea that Libby was a shrink at the facility Hurley was in. But it just occurred to me that we only have her word for it that she is a shrink. She may have been a patient at that hospital. Which, to me, is a much more fun idea. And would be a better explanation for her seeming to be gaming Hurley. |
|
