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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 4, 2006 13:48:36 GMT -5
I see what you mean. Interesting. Boone's dying words to Jack: releasing him from his duties, releasing him from bleeding himself out to try to save Boone: Boone: I know you made a promise. I'm letting you off the hook. Let me go, Jack. Jack: I'm sorry. Boone: Don't be. I think that Boone is in a state of grace of freedom from sexual jealousy over his sister and Sayid: and is feeling a sort of grace in freeing Jack from his sworn obligations to save a life at all costs: even (possibly) Jack's own life, as Jack's the one O-neg donor he knows. He also dies without finishing saying what he wanted to have repeated to Shannon: but I think that can be taken as "She sorta knows" that he forgives her and loves her. Wanky enough? Well wanked, thank you.
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Post by Karen on May 4, 2006 13:49:56 GMT -5
Hurley is going to figure that she got shot (whether dead or hurt) because he has the BAD LUCK. Unfortunately, I think you may be right. Fortunately for Hurley, tho. We don't want him having an epiphany any time soon.
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Post by Lola m on May 4, 2006 13:53:58 GMT -5
Hurley is going to figure that she got shot (whether dead or hurt) because he has the BAD LUCK. Ohhhh! You are sooooooo right . . . I hadn't thought about that.
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Post by Karen on May 4, 2006 13:55:06 GMT -5
Gotta say, I didn't see that ending coming. Maybe I should have - Shannon had sex, Shannon got shot, Ana-Lucia had sex, she got shot, Libby was going on a date which might lead to sex, Libby got shot... Unmarried woman has sex with partner not chosen by island=bad? Don't mind me, my mind is doing weird things again. My mind went there, too. You could even make an argument for the way the 'island' broke up Charlie and Claire, too. #metoo# re the red. I missed it because I don't generally watch the commercials - and that's not going to make me start, either. Evil is right!
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Post by Sara on May 4, 2006 13:57:42 GMT -5
Gotta say, I didn't see that ending coming. Maybe I should have - Shannon had sex, Shannon got shot, Ana-Lucia had sex, she got shot, Libby was going on a date which might lead to sex, Libby got shot... Unmarried woman has sex with partner not chosen by island=bad? Don't mind me, my mind is doing weird things again. My mind went there, too. You could even make an argument for the way the 'island' broke up Charlie and Claire, too. re the red. I missed it because I don't generally watch the commercials - and that's not going to make me start, either. Evil is right! No need--you can also see the commercial on line: The Hanso Foundation
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Post by Lola m on May 4, 2006 13:58:38 GMT -5
Gotta say, I didn't see that ending coming. Maybe I should have - Shannon had sex, Shannon got shot, Ana-Lucia had sex, she got shot, Libby was going on a date which might lead to sex, Libby got shot... Unmarried woman has sex with partner not chosen by island=bad? Don't mind me, my mind is doing weird things again. Plus, there's the whole epiphany thing. Once you figure things out, well . . . Oooh, Michael not really being Michael. I hadn't thought of that one. Interesting! **nods nods nods** Definitely different than Fake Beardy, 'cuz of the different hatch and all. And I also think they are survivors of a different crash. They've just been experimented on longer than our survivors. And perhaps they are being led or ruled by a rogue crazy Hanso experimenter who has broken away from Fake Beardy? *snicker* ;D
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Post by Lola m on May 4, 2006 14:05:17 GMT -5
This episode was truly a stupid piece of crap. This was such a badly written episode that I'm still fuming about it. Talk about contrivance of the worst kind! I haven't felt this angry and disappointed over a character's death since the writers of CHARMED bumped off Julian McMahon's character. As for Michael . . . I don't hate him. I hate the writers and producers who ruined his character, all because Harold Perrineau had complained about the bonuses received by Fox, Holloway, O'Quinn and Lilly. It seemed as if the writers had completely regressed Ana-Lucia's character, so that she would be in a position to hand over Sawyer's gun to Michael. And the writers had Michael kill her for a very unecessary reason . . . so that the Lostaways would be inclined to go after the Others. And he didn't need to do this. Why? Because Ana-Lucia had already told him that Jack and the other Lostaways clearly intend to go after Walt as soon as they get the guns from Sawyer. I dunno. I think Ana L decision she couldn't kill not!Henry fit nicely with her airport epiphany and call to her mom. And I think something wackier is going on with Michael than just a simple killing, that he is just as wacked out as not!Henry, in his own way. But YMMV, as they say. **shrugs** Eh. Due to that, not due to that, probably a mixture of that and other stuff. Unless we're part of the team doing the creation of the show, we'll likely never really know the full story. And, well, not that I think anyone is wrong if they feel strongly about it (which I know some do), but for me - I guess I don't really care why. As long as the story and show are interesting and/or exciting to me, I'm fine. Which is probably a bit cold on my part, I know, but . . . well, that's jsut me.
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Post by Lola m on May 4, 2006 14:07:22 GMT -5
I think the omen had to be "I took Shannon there once". And what happened to HER? I tell ya! It's the romantic beach thing! Combine that with a sudden understanding of some deep personal issue for you and, boom! You're goin' down! Getting sat on by cats is its own reward. ;D
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Post by Lola m on May 4, 2006 14:12:43 GMT -5
Gotta say, I didn't see that ending coming. Maybe I should have - Shannon had sex, Shannon got shot, Ana-Lucia had sex, she got shot, Libby was going on a date which might lead to sex, Libby got shot... Unmarried woman has sex with partner not chosen by island=bad? Don't mind me, my mind is doing weird things again.I sincerely hope the deaths were part of the original season arc, and not a network ploy to get rid of the actresses after their respective DUIs. So, Michael has been brainwashed, or Michael has been got to (do what we say, and we'll give you back your son), or Michael isn't Michael, he's someone else entirely. Time to let Vincent (if it really is Vincent) sniff around. Now, did Michael kill himself, wound himself to make it look like Henry shot up the hatch and escaped, shoot Henry, or just fire off a random shot so he and Henry could escape? Henry-or-whoever-he-is is a right mixer. Locke is the right, or good, or whatever (I forget) one? I think Locke was chosen because he's the most gullible. The Force has a strong influence on the weak-minded. I think that Michael's "Others" are the Clan of the Teddy Bear, and probably survivors of another wreck, and not part of the group run by Fake Beardy - that group are the ones running the lab experiments, and they took the children. ABC stuck a Hanso ad into the commercials? Making us watch commercials, how evil of them - everyone knows commercials are when you get a cup of tea, or brush the cat. Gotta go, Emily has to be at school early today for her AP exam. I think it's more a case of "Shannon grew into her better self" and "Ana Lucia grew into her better self" They died in a state of spiritual health, so to speak: another reason I think Libby may not be dead: we did not see her transcendence. A case can be made that Boone died after achieving a better mental state, too, I think, if I fanwank it some. Hmm. **nods nods nods** The whole epiphany thing. Figure stuff out, move on and advance? Better start watching your back. Well, that and mastermind puppetmeister Vincent, too.
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Post by Lola m on May 4, 2006 14:15:09 GMT -5
What was Ana-Lucia's? "I can't do this" seemed more like she was exhausted and just gave up. I thought it was less "exhaustion" and more an awareness of her past sins, and a desire not to repeat them. She didn't achieve perfection of the spirit, in that she was willing to give the gun to Michael to do what she was unable to do, but the fact that she was unable to do it: that she forgave the breach of her Orgullio, her pride, Henry had committed, to the degree that she couldn't kill him herself, meant she had taken a step forward: it's tied in with her "Come home, Mija" from her mother, in the Flashback. Yes! It was the mirroring of her conversation with her mom, us realising how her story was progressing right up to the moment of getting on the plane, etc. I thought it fit nicely with her understanding that she couldn't just kill not!Henry, no matter what he might be, she wasn't just gonna shoot him in cold blood.
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Post by Lola m on May 4, 2006 14:16:45 GMT -5
Boone's dying words to Jack: releasing him from his duties, releasing him from bleeding himself out to try to save Boone: Boone: I know you made a promise. I'm letting you off the hook. Let me go, Jack. Jack: I'm sorry. Boone: Don't be. I think that Boone is in a state of grace of freedom from sexual jealousy over his sister and Sayid: and is feeling a sort of grace in freeing Jack from his sworn obligations to save a life at all costs: even (possibly) Jack's own life, as Jack's the one O-neg donor he knows. He also dies without finishing saying what he wanted to have repeated to Shannon: but I think that can be taken as "She sorta knows" that he forgives her and loves her. Wanky enough? Well wanked, thank you. **snickers** Um, I mean, yes - that is a nice explanation, actually. **goes back to snickering**
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Post by Karen on May 4, 2006 14:31:50 GMT -5
I have to say, they're being pretty selective about who they take out. There's something of a hierarchy in the "Lost" cast; the most popular Season One characters (obviously I'm speaking generally here) have remained untouched thus far. Though I would say Michael's on a downward slide. My personal list of "untouchables:" 1. Hurley 2. Sawyer 3. Kate 4. Jack 5. Sayid 6. Sun 7. Jin 8. Vincent 9. Locke 10. Eko The above isn't in descending order, by the way (though Hurley would remain in the same position if it were). And yes, I did leave Charlie off intentionally. I'm not sure I have any untouchables . . . presuming the death(s) is/are written well. Hmmmm. I'll have to think about that. Well, except if they kill everyone and change to an hour of shots of empty beach and jungle. Granted, the beach and jungle are very nice looking (Hawaii pretty!!) Ooooh! I know, if all the plane people died and it became the "all Others, all the time", that probably would do it for me. Well, except that not!Henry is a very fascinating Other to watch, so maybe an All Others show would be interesting. Hmmmmm. Must think about this more. I still find it very cool that they were gonna kill Jack off in the first ep. In a show about surviving I think I need to keep feeling "on the edge" - like there is still a question about all of their fates. That it really is about survival.Good point. I hate to compare Lost to what happened to the people on Pitcairn Island - because that ended badly. There is a story there we'll never really know, and I like how Lost explores the way a group of people tries to survive and find their place in a completely foreign venue. All of them went from civilization and all it's comforts to basically square one - except for the stuff in the Hatch and the food that they are being supplied with. (And the medicine - because how much medicine could have really been on that plane?) They also went from the people they had become to people whose histories were basically unwritten among each other. They were labeled from the start by what they were off-island - doctor, rock star/junkie, box maker, spoiled blonde, pampered son, etc., but basically, they could change themselves if they wanted to. Libby asked Hurley - "Do you want to change? Then change!" Easier said than done for most of them, it seems. What does it take for a person to change? Can people really change? I think Lost explores these questions - in my mind, anyway. Of course, I like survival/catastrophe-type stories, and sort of expect that people are going to die. I don't like that they die (Wash!Angel!Tara!Buffy!Spike! ) but the way the other characters react to their passing is interesting to me. I suppose I'm kinda warped. Assume the YMMV.
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Post by Karen on May 4, 2006 14:33:15 GMT -5
My mind went there, too. You could even make an argument for the way the 'island' broke up Charlie and Claire, too. re the red. I missed it because I don't generally watch the commercials - and that's not going to make me start, either. Evil is right! No need--you can also see the commercial on line: The Hanso FoundationThank you! I figured it'd show up sooner or later on the net.
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Post by Sara on May 4, 2006 16:04:00 GMT -5
Thank you! I figured it'd show up sooner or later on the net. Actually, the ad was already available for viewing yesterday afternoon when I visited the newly-revamped Hanso web site. So far I haven't found any hidden treasures, but the executive bios were very interesting--including the one by the guy who'd been miraculously cured of pancreatic cancer because of the foundation's work. Which makes me wonder whether Libby will be okay if they can just keep her alive long enough for the island to work its mojo on her.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 4, 2006 16:07:58 GMT -5
Spring, forget it. You're wasting your breath. I think we all know why Michael had killed her and framed Henry. This whole plotline reeks of amateur writing. Please do not insult my intelligence. I realize that you might be a fan of Kate's, but this is going too far. This was slopping writing of the worst kind. There has been no establishment of any emotional connection between Kate and Ana . . . aside from dislike, jealousy and mistrust. I can understand Kate being shocked, but reacting in overt grief over two women whom she barely knew or liked? Give me a break! This is obviously a ploy to ignore the fact that Kate disliked Ana, so that there wouldn't be any negative backlash from those fans who dislike Kate. How else would you explain the exchange of grins between two women who had clearly disliked each other and never became friends. This is bad writing . . . pure and simple.I have just watched my last episode of LOST. It was nice knowing you guys. "No man is an island..." Even if Kate hated Ana-Lucia's guts, A-L was a member of her tribe: a familiar face, and even if a sort of competitor for Jack's attention, she was an ally. Kate can kill, and has killed before, without remorse: but when someone died as a result of her actions, she showed great grief. If the previews are to be believed, AND her character hated A-L as much as you feel she did, she may be simply grieving over the fact that her "safe zone", her home, is not "safe" any more. I think it's more complex than that, in that she had adopted Ana-Lucia as a member of her tribe, just as surely as Michael, Sawyer, John, Charlie, Hurley, Sayid, and Jack are. She may not get along with some of them at some times, but death of those in your tribe, at the hands of the alien, is a rough thing.I disagree: I thought Ana-Lucia was painted very true to the established character in this episode. Under the right circumstances, I've wept over Kodak commercials. I'm sure I would be weeping if I was Kate, over what happened.
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