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Post by Karen on May 5, 2006 22:02:34 GMT -5
I rewatched the last five minutes and the previews when I was cuing the tape for Sunday (I'm taping another show on the same tape). I agree, Michael shot poor Libby by accident. If it really is Michael, and I'm afraid it is, he's got major problems - he could have facilitated faux!Henry's escape by knocking Ana-Lucia out instead of killing her. Come to think of it, Michael had no way of knowing Ana-Lucia would give him the gun until it happened. I'd like to know what he was thinking. Jack's dad could have met the mother of his child when she was visiting the US, or he could have been to Australia before. It's probably one of those loose threads we'll never figure out. Oh - I thought Michael shot both women on purpose. For some reason, Michael felt that he HAD to shoot Ana, though his apologetic manner and tortured look said "I don't want to do this - I really really don't - but I have to, please forgive me." Then Libby showed up, and Michael was trapped into having to shoot her as well, because she was now a witness (IMO, definitely a guess) and he couldn't have anyone contradicting whatever story he's going to be cooking up, about what happened. Yes - no telling how, or where, Jack's dad met the woman he went to see in Australia. But I am thinking maybe we will get that answer. I wonder how old Jack's sister is? Could she be on the island?My first thought was that Jack's sister might be Kate - that would be a cool twist - if a little 'ewwww', but it would explain why he keeps pushing her away. Then I thought that maybe it's Claire, because the mother is blonde. That would make the baby his nephew. Or, I could just be thinking about this stuff way too much.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 5, 2006 22:09:13 GMT -5
Oh - I thought Michael shot both women on purpose. For some reason, Michael felt that he HAD to shoot Ana, though his apologetic manner and tortured look said "I don't want to do this - I really really don't - but I have to, please forgive me." Then Libby showed up, and Michael was trapped into having to shoot her as well, because she was now a witness (IMO, definitely a guess) and he couldn't have anyone contradicting whatever story he's going to be cooking up, about what happened. Yes - no telling how, or where, Jack's dad met the woman he went to see in Australia. But I am thinking maybe we will get that answer. I wonder how old Jack's sister is? Could she be on the island?My first thought was that Jack's sister might be Kate - that would be a cool twist - if a little 'ewwww', but it would explain why he keeps pushing her away. Then I thought that maybe it's Claire, because the mother is blonde. That would make the baby his nephew. Or, I could just be thinking about this stuff way too much. Then the Initiative Dharma experiment is working. This episode has certainly generated lots of good discussion.
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Post by Sara on May 5, 2006 22:10:35 GMT -5
Oh - I thought Michael shot both women on purpose. For some reason, Michael felt that he HAD to shoot Ana, though his apologetic manner and tortured look said "I don't want to do this - I really really don't - but I have to, please forgive me." Then Libby showed up, and Michael was trapped into having to shoot her as well, because she was now a witness (IMO, definitely a guess) and he couldn't have anyone contradicting whatever story he's going to be cooking up, about what happened. Yes - no telling how, or where, Jack's dad met the woman he went to see in Australia. But I am thinking maybe we will get that answer. I wonder how old Jack's sister is? Could she be on the island?My first thought was that Jack's sister might be Kate - that would be a cool twist - if a little 'ewwww', but it would explain why he keeps pushing her away. Then I thought that maybe it's Claire, because the mother is blonde. That would make the baby his nephew. Or, I could just be thinking about this stuff way too much. I wondered if his sister wasn't the little girl Ana Lucia helped on the other side of the island; as I recall, neither kid ever asked where their father was--just their mom.
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Post by Karen on May 5, 2006 22:51:48 GMT -5
My first thought was that Jack's sister might be Kate - that would be a cool twist - if a little 'ewwww', but it would explain why he keeps pushing her away. Then I thought that maybe it's Claire, because the mother is blonde. That would make the baby his nephew. Or, I could just be thinking about this stuff way too much. I wondered if his sister wasn't the little girl Ana Lucia helped on the other side of the island; as I recall, neither kid ever asked where their father was--just their mom. Oh, that's a thought!
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Post by Karen on May 5, 2006 22:53:45 GMT -5
My first thought was that Jack's sister might be Kate - that would be a cool twist - if a little 'ewwww', but it would explain why he keeps pushing her away. Then I thought that maybe it's Claire, because the mother is blonde. That would make the baby his nephew. Or, I could just be thinking about this stuff way too much. Then the Initiative Dharma experiment is working. This episode has certainly generated lots of good discussion. #rofl1# So, you're saying we're the real subjects of the experiment?
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Post by leftylady on May 6, 2006 12:13:47 GMT -5
Heeeeee! And they "ran into" Sawyer as well. ;D But not so that Ana L and Sawyer would remember. Oh lovely! Ana is Buffy. "You tell anyone about this and I'll kill you." ;D Which makes Sawyer Spike! Whoa!! Scary mindshare with you and Spring. Those were my first thoughts when I heard AL say that. Does that make Michael Warren and Libby Tara? Will Hurley turn all dark and veiny and go on a vengeance rampage now?
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Post by fish1941 on May 8, 2006 11:40:45 GMT -5
So, exactly why did Michael felt he had to shoot Ana-Lucia in such a contrived manner? Because I'm not buying the brainwashing theory. The only theory I can come up with is that Michael did it to free Henry. That's it. Gee, he could have whacked her over the head or something, but since ABC wanted Ms. Rodriguez off the show, she had to be killed.
Well, LOST has just lost another viewer. I cannot watch a show in which Evangeline Lilly is the only female lead. She's just not that interesting.
You're not really buying their excuse, are you? This sounds to me that Lindehoff and Cuse are simply trying to cover their butt. And as far as I know, not many people believe them.
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Post by Karen on May 8, 2006 14:57:46 GMT -5
So, exactly why did Michael felt he had to shoot Ana-Lucia in such a contrived manner? Because I'm not buying the brainwashing theory. The only theory I can come up with is that Michael did it to free Henry. That's it. Gee, he could have whacked her over the head or something, but since ABC wanted Ms. Rodriguez off the show, she had to be killed. Well, LOST has just lost another viewer. I cannot watch a show in which Evangeline Lilly is the only female lead. She's just not that interesting. You're not really buying their excuse, are you? This sounds to me that Lindehoff and Cuse are simply trying to cover their butt. And as far as I know, not many people believe them. I'll miss Ana Lucia, too. I'm hoping they bring her back for some backstory eps. I like Kate, tho. I'm not wedded to any one or two characters, although if Sawyer were to go, I'd be really pissed. Michelle R. (and the actress that played Libby) verified that they were only to be on as regulars for a season, so I have no reason to doubt them. In any case, the rl goings on of the producers and actors don't influence me much if I'm enjoying a program. But YMMV.
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Post by Pixi on May 9, 2006 8:21:14 GMT -5
Wait - what is Jack's dad doing with Ana L? I love this actor who plays Jack's dad. He's so perfect in the role. Don't tell me she went to Australia with Jack's dad! Watch her be pregnant with Jack's little step-sibling. Exactly my thought? I was all whahuh? Could this be any more incestuous - relationship wise? He does do an excellent job. I loved the bar conversation.
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Post by Pixi on May 9, 2006 8:22:45 GMT -5
That Henry is a manipulative little bastard. To say the least. An excellent job by this actor, simply excellent. He and the actor playing President Logan on 24 this season have really delivered in breakout roles. All hail the background actors taking center stage. Bravo!!
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Post by Sara on May 9, 2006 8:50:37 GMT -5
So, exactly why did Michael felt he had to shoot Ana-Lucia in such a contrived manner? Because I'm not buying the brainwashing theory. The only theory I can come up with is that Michael did it to free Henry. That's it. Gee, he could have whacked her over the head or something, but since ABC wanted Ms. Rodriguez off the show, she had to be killed. Well, LOST has just lost another viewer. I cannot watch a show in which Evangeline Lilly is the only female lead. She's just not that interesting. Why Michael felt he had to shoot Ana Lucia is an interesting question, and one I hope the writers address. Because, as you said, there were other ways to disable her if his purpose was just to free Henry. Which makes me think that his motives are a lot more complicated than that. I suspect in this case it's important to keep in mind that Henry himself tried to kill Ana to open the episode, and did so while reminding her that she'd killed two of their number. He also said that Goodwin had tried to argue Ana's case, saying she had potential and could be brought around--presumably to the side of "good" people like himself and his fellow Others. Did her role in Goodwin's death place her firmly on the "wrong" side? Did Michael know the Others wanted her dead, and thus kill her in hopes of winning their favor and freeing Walt? Was her death part of a deal he made with them in exchange for Walt's return? Or was he simply desperate to get Walt back, figured freeing Henry would help him get in better with the Others, and made a hideously rash decision? At this point, I'd say any of the options I've listed, among with others I'm sure I've neglected, are equally viable--we simply don't have enough information to even begin to give more weight to one motive more than another. In lieu of any evidence to the contrary, at this point I'm personally inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. Neither producer, to my knowledge, has a prior history of firing employees for "moral" reasons, and as you pointed out a week or two ago several other cast members have had their own run-ins with the Oahu police: Josh Holloway, Naveen Andrews, Dominic Monaghan, and Harold Perrineau have all been cited (although the charges against HP were dropped) for driving violations, yet they remain cast members in good standing. So why make an example of the two most public arrests, and thus almost guarantee themselves of being accused of exactly what many viewers think they did--firing their "misbehaving" employees? We also know that Rodriguez, never one to be shy with her opinions, made the talk show rounds the next morning and backed up the producers' statement that her character's fate was planned from the beginning. I know I remember her being very vague in interviews back in September about how long she'd be with the show, which at the time I attributed to a desire not to count her proverbial chickens, and overall she doesn't strike me as being at a point in her life or her career where she'd be ready to settle in for the long haul with a single part or be seeking the kind of long-term stability a continuing role on a hit series would provide. And we've yet to hear from Cynthia Watros about any of this--why wouldn't she have done the rounds with Rodriguez if her character had indeed been killed at the same time? Which leads me to suspect that Libby is alive at least to begin the next episode, if only to give Jorge Garcia more material for his Emmy reel. None of this is to say that I don't understand your skepticism--I honestly do. But right now none of the facts--that I'm aware of--give me reason to dismiss the producers' story out of hand. And if something comes to light that changes my perception of what transpired, then I may very well share some of your anger. But regardless of the RL circumstances behind why the characters of Libby and AL were shot, right now I still find the resultant storyline to be incredibly intriguing and compelling: Michael may be discovering just how far he'll go to save his son, and his fellow survivors--who've in many ways demonized the Others--may soon be faced with an incredibly wrenching dilemma: what do you do when one of your own has become one of Them? Personally, I can't wait to see what happens next.
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Post by Pixi on May 9, 2006 8:59:46 GMT -5
Michael is now one of the Others. Are the Others holding Walt and using that to control Michael, because that was just too unbelieveable. I had a feeling as soon as Ana Lucia changed her mind about killing Henry that she was going to die soon. Seems like the one's who end up dying are the ones who have some sort of epiphany. Didn't think it would be quite that soon, tho. I was unspoiled for this so I was not expecting the deaths. With that said the episode felt for final to me for Ana Lucia. I did know about the two actresses brush with drunk driving and MR taking a jail term. Pretty strong lesson to actors who want to mess up their lives - drink, drive, get fired from the biggest show out there. With that said - I loved the fact that it was Michael who did the shooting. Just wow. On a side note - I saw the actor playing Michael - can't recall his name right now on an episode of Dead like Me this weekend. He was playing a yoga instructor and just wore a tiny pair of pants - very bulgy by the way who dies and his soul is taken and he was very, very unMichael like. Which I love! It showed me he had some range and I was very impressed. And not just at the body which was very impressive, very ripped.
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Post by Pixi on May 9, 2006 9:00:18 GMT -5
This is like . . . just . . . . like . . . OMG! This just does not compute. Well - I guess we know what was meant by "Two for the Road." I'm speechless. Yes - the title was excellent.
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Post by Pixi on May 9, 2006 9:04:17 GMT -5
Okay. This is a must-read from Michael Ausellio regarding what we just saw: Before we get to the shocking events of last night's Lost, I have a confession to make: I've known for weeks that Michelle Rodriguez was leaving the show and I said nothing about it in Ask Ausiello. No hints. No spoilers. Not even an asterisk quiz. And you're probably wondering why. Well, it's simple: I knew Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse wanted Ana Lucia's death to be a big surprise to viewers and I wasn't going to be the one to ruin that for them — or you. Plus, I knew if I kept my big trap shut, I'd stand a better chance of getting them to spill the beans about the shocking plot twist before it happened, and then be able to post it to my blog the moment the episode was over. All in all, I think it was a pretty fair trade-off. Oh, and you're probably wondering about the fate of Cynthia Watros' Libby since she too was gunned down by Michael last night. I'll have the full story on that next week. But first, let's get to the bottom of M.Ro's ouster.
Ausiello: Was it always your intention to use Ana Lucia as a one-season character? Damon Lindelof: A lot of this is going to sound like spin, so all we can give you is our word that this is exactly what happened. Around late February of last year, we started throwing our respective lines in the water to find the leader of the tail section, who we knew was going to be a Latina woman and who would be conceived as a romantic foil for Jack. We wanted her to be in her mid-thirties and be a detective from the LAPD. So we started putting out feelers unofficially because we wanted her to show up in the penultimate episode of last year. That way, when we started our plan for Season 2, it wouldn't feel like we had pulled her out of our asses. So, right around that time… Carlton: I got a call from Michelle's agent saying, "Would you guys be interested in Michelle Rodriguez? But she's really only interested in being on the show for a year." Damon: So we basically said, "A year is not necessarily ideal for us, but let's bring in Michelle and have the meeting." And she came in and met with Carlton and I and then, in the last 15 minutes, J.J. [Abrams] happened to be across the way doing some Alias stuff and he came over and sat down with her and we just hung out with her and chatted. It turned out that she worked in Hawaii on Blue Crush and knew a lot of people down there. But she made it very clear in that meeting that she's sort of a nomadic spirit and she did not want to commit to doing any more than [one season]. She wanted to do one kickass arc, as she described it, and we basically started to wrap our brains around her energy and say, "Yeah, we'll bring you on the show and then we'll kill you off at the end of the year." And she was totally cool with it and we were totally cool with it, and we parted ways and talked amongst ourselves. Obviously, the network and the studio normally don't want to get into a situation where they're not making multiyear deals, but we assured them that this was in fact the plan, and that even if Michelle was a rocking sensation on the show, we were going to stick to the plan. So they signed off on it and made the deal accordingly.
Ausiello: And then the DUI… Carlton: Then she got this DUI and Damon and I looked at each other and we were like, "Oh, great. Everybody is going to think we're killing her off because she got a DUI." But there really wasn't anything we could do about that. I mean, the story was set. We had made plans. With Lost, we think it out well ahead of when we actually shoot it. We thought about altering our plan, but [this] was in fact what was best for the show. The fact that she got a DUI would come and go and what would live on would be the show, and our plan was still the best plan for the character. Ironically, we actually thought about changing it the other way around once [the DUI] happened, but it really was the best story. We wanted to tell the best story. Damon: And obviously that decision was further mitigated by the fact that Libby is shot at the same time as Ana Lucia. Basically then we said, "Oh, s--t. Both Michelle and Cynthia were busted the same night for DUI and we've got this story point coming up where they essentially both get shot at the same time, so it's going to look like this is the Lost producers attempt to say, 'Don't drive drunk!'" But as Carlton says, all it created in us was [the thought that], "Maybe we shouldn't do the plan now, 'cause people are going to think this is a reaction to [the DUIs], as opposed to this [plan] existing prior to that event." Carlton: As you'll see, everything that happens for the rest of the season all sort of falls from this event. And we're not doing ourselves or the fans of the show or the show itself any service by altering those plans because of Michelle's extracurricular activities. Damon: Not to mention that we didn't even know if that option would be available to us. We were still functioning under the auspices of that meeting, which was Michelle saying, "I want to do a year and then move on."
Ausiello: Did you meet with Michelle to make sure everyone was still on the same page? Damon: Michelle happened to be [in Los Angeles] and she came by to see us. We basically said to her, "So we’re going to stay on course." And at that point, Michelle was kinda like, "Hey, I'm living in Hawaii…." She might have been able to wrap her brain around [staying] a little bit longer on the show, but she did not say, "I want to stay on the show!" She was basically like, "Yeah. That's a good plan." Carlton: And once we told her what was happening, she was incredibly supportive. She thought it was sort of a kickass way to go, and she got very on board with the idea of how she was going to be exiting the show.
Ausiello: Rumors has it she was a hard-ass on the set and everyone hated her. Care to set the record straight? Damon: We're not in Hawaii on the set so all we can speak to is our working relationship with Michelle and what we have heard from the other actors and directors on the show, and we never heard anything remotely resembling that she was a hard-ass. You know, she's Michelle. She's got a very playful spirit. But she's totally professional and got along well with all the other actors. We get calls over the course of our career about difficult actors. We did not get those calls about Michelle.Hee - well this is either really great spin or it was all planned out. It never seems to me like the Lost writers plan very far ahead . . . . . . but I'll give them this. Still - very, very coincidental that BOTH MR and CW get drunk driving arrests and both die? But - hey let's go with the spin. Still - I know if I was a budding actor and cast on a hit show I sure wouldnt' drink and drive. Just saying.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 9, 2006 9:30:28 GMT -5
So, exactly why did Michael felt he had to shoot Ana-Lucia in such a contrived manner? Because I'm not buying the brainwashing theory. The only theory I can come up with is that Michael did it to free Henry. That's it. Gee, he could have whacked her over the head or something, but since ABC wanted Ms. Rodriguez off the show, she had to be killed. Well, LOST has just lost another viewer. I cannot watch a show in which Evangeline Lilly is the only female lead. She's just not that interesting. Why Michael felt he had to shoot Ana Lucia is an interesting question, and one I hope the writers address. Because, as you said, there were other ways to disable her if his purpose was just to free Henry. Which makes me think that his motives are a lot more complicated than that. I suspect in this case it's important to keep in mind that Henry himself tried to kill Ana to open the episode, and did so while reminding her that she'd killed two of their number. He also said that Goodwin had tried to argue Ana's case, saying she had potential and could be brought around--presumably to the side of "good" people like himself and his fellow Others. Did her role in Goodwin's death place her firmly on the "wrong" side? Did Michael know the Others wanted her dead, and thus kill her in hopes of winning their favor and freeing Walt? Was her death part of a deal he made with them in exchange for Walt's return? Or was he simply desperate to get Walt back, figured freeing Henry would help him get in better with the Others, and made a hideously rash decision? At this point, I'd say any of the options I've listed, among with others I'm sure I've neglected, are equally viable--we simply don't have enough information to even begin to give more weight to one motive more than another. In lieu of any evidence to the contrary, at this point I'm personally inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. Neither producer, to my knowledge, has a prior history of firing employees for "moral" reasons, and as you pointed out a week or two ago several other cast members have had their own run-ins with the Oahu police: Josh Holloway, Naveen Andrews, Dominic Monaghan, and Harold Perrineau have all been cited (although the charges against HP were dropped) for driving violations, yet they remain cast members in good standing. So why make an example of the two most public arrests, and thus almost guarantee themselves of being accused of exactly what many viewers think they did--firing their "misbehaving" employees? We also know that Rodriguez, never one to be shy with her opinions, made the talk show rounds the next morning and backed up the producers' statement that her character's fate was planned from the beginning. I know I remember her being very vague in interviews back in September about how long she'd be with the show, which at the time I attributed to a desire not to count her proverbial chickens, and overall she doesn't strike me as being at a point in her life or her career where she'd be ready to settle in for the long haul with a single part or be seeking the kind of long-term stability a continuing role on a hit series would provide. And we've yet to hear from Cynthia Watros about any of this--why wouldn't she have done the rounds with Rodriguez if her character had indeed been killed at the same time? Which leads me to suspect that Libby is alive at least to begin the next episode, if only to give Jorge Garcia more material for his Emmy reel. None of this is to say that I don't understand your skepticism--I honestly do. But right now none of the facts--that I'm aware of--give me reason to dismiss the producers' story out of hand. And if something comes to light that changes my perception of what transpired, then I may very well share some of your anger. But regardless of the RL circumstances behind why the characters of Libby and AL were shot, right now I still find the resultant storyline to be incredibly intriguing and compelling: Michael may be discovering just how far he'll go to save his son, and his fellow survivors--who've in many ways demonized the Others--may soon be faced with an incredibly wrenching dilemma: what do you do when one of your own has become one of Them? Personally, I can't wait to see what happens next. #metoo# After what was, for me, a long dry spell, the show has become interesting again. I'm looking forward to this week.
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