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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 18, 2006 7:36:20 GMT -5
Thoughts. Fast, incoherent because not awake, but thoughts: Three minutes? Funny, seemed more like, say, six months. When Michael got all insistent that Sayid couldn't join the club, and then that Hurley had to come along, I said to Paul, "Michael's got a shopping list, the Others told him to bring those four people". Paul pooh-poohed me. As it turned out, I was right (*does dance of triumph*). So I wonder, what do Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley have in common? Since coming to the island, Jack, Kate and Hurley have had visions relating to their past. I think Sawyer has had similar dreams - does anyone remember? Maybe they're connected psychically with the island, or more easily influenced? The Force has a strong influence on the weak-minded. No, that was Locke, and apparently Eko. Some few things I liked - Sawyer opening up, just a little, to Jack - "Because you're the closest thing to a friend I have". Male bonding over the guns. Kate being supportive of Hurley - she kept patting him on the back, comforting him and being supportive, and she stood up for him when Michael got pushy. I get the feeling Kate isn't much of a touchy-feely person, so that was a big step for her. For that matter, Hurley speaking about about Ana-Lucia and Libby - he doesn't usually tell others what to do. There was poor Charlie at loose ends, trying to build the church on his own. I think Vincent is the evil Hand of the Island - why else would he turn up with a statue and lead Charlie to the cache just when Charlie was at his lowest ebb and most vulnerable? But - Charlie threw away the dope! Claire has begun to forgive Charlie! I liked Claire taking Charlie's hand at the funeral, and the way they were a couple, next to Jin and Sun. I don't trust those "vaccinations", though; Charlie means well, but I hope they talk to Jack about it before she shoots Aaron up with something unknown. Locke seems a bit put out - like he thinks the island doesn't love him, it likes Eko better. Mom always liked you best! Looks like Locke is going to go off and pout. As to next week - is it me, or did the trailer have an odor of "everything you know is wrong", as if the writers are going to throw out the last two seasons and start over. Walt wakes up in his own bed; Vincent comes out of the shower and shakes himself off all over the room...
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Post by Pixi on May 18, 2006 7:51:13 GMT -5
Man, I just don't see how Michael is going to get past killing LIbby and Ana Lucia. That's the way I feel. I mean - yea, wants to save son and all but he's just a murderer now to me. I'm trying to care, really I am but . . . . . . I knew Sayid wasn't buying any of this. Go Sayid.
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Post by Pixi on May 18, 2006 7:51:50 GMT -5
Micheal snagged pretty darn quickly. Was that the same bearded guy? These guys looked . . . legitimately bearded. "The boy did not care about forgiveness". Only worried the dog would be there waiting. Well, well. Mr. Eko - always ther with the teaching story. It's gotta be the way I say. It's gotta be just the 5 of us. The Others only want those 5? But if only the 5 go, at LEAST tell all the others where you went and so on . . . Make some alternate or back up plans and stuff. I mean at least try to think of this logically. Claire and Charlie . . . Yay!! The rest of the plane folk are told that Michael's back! Awwww, everyone's so happy. And then they see the other bodies . . . "They were murdered." Well. That's a truthful statement. Why do they want those 5?
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Post by Pixi on May 18, 2006 7:56:59 GMT -5
It's a flashback to 13 days ago when Michael first went to look for Walt. That's when he brained Locke and locked Jack in the vault. It's only been thirteen days on the island since Michael went to look for Walt. It's confusing because they keep cutting between flashback and present time. It was definitely confusing. I honestly forgot about him clocking Locke. And I have to say - not a big fan of the whole mysterious woman, glimpse of son moment.
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Post by Pixi on May 18, 2006 7:57:41 GMT -5
Where is Sayid? There has not been nearly enough Sayid this season. I agree.
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Post by Pixi on May 18, 2006 7:59:25 GMT -5
Eko has apparently become religiously enraptured with the button-pushing. I've got to say - this storyline with Eko and the Button - really boring.
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Post by Pixi on May 18, 2006 8:00:01 GMT -5
"I screwed her." So romantic! I know. But I kind of liked this scene. I was glad they were at least talking and communicating a little.
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Post by Pixi on May 18, 2006 8:19:05 GMT -5
Interesting. I have to agree with Rob that the anecdote Eko told seemed to clearly indicate to me at least that Eko knew what Michael had done.
And I kept expecting that Michael had been brainwashed or something and no one has addressed this but hello why exactly did he kill Ana and Libby then? Why? I don't get it. He's suddenly a murderer
Look - I'm a mother and I think under the right circumstances - someone raping my daughter or torturing my son - I could pull a trigger. But this was flat out murder. He couldn't try and be sneaky about freeing Gale? I mean - I just don't get it. Michael was supposedly a good guy. His flashbacks haven't shown this level of callous indifference to life and suddenly he's all kill em all?
I don't buy it. Is the Island somehow weakening his moral fiber? I would be very interested to hear what someone more interpretive of this show has to say about this because Walt was obviously alive, not in mortal danger of dying - there is just no excuse for murder.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 18, 2006 8:47:14 GMT -5
Interesting. I have to agree with Rob that the anecdote Eko told seemed to clearly indicate to me at least that Eko knew what Michael had done. And I kept expecting that Michael had been brainwashed or something and no one has addressed this but hello why exactly did he kill Ana and Libby then? Why? I don't get it. He's suddenly a murderer Look - I'm a mother and I think under the right circumstances - someone raping my daughter or torturing my son - I could pull a trigger. But this was flat out murder. He couldn't try and be sneaky about freeing Gale? I mean - I just don't get it. Michael was supposedly a good guy. His flashbacks haven't shown this level of callous indifference to life and suddenly he's all kill em all? I don't buy it. Is the Island somehow weakening his moral fiber? I would be very interested to hear what someone more interpretive of this show has to say about this because Walt was obviously alive, not in mortal danger of dying - there is just no excuse for murder. EEtah the above - why didn't Michael talk to Jack, see if they could figure out a way to let Henry go? I think he's been brainwashed - I don't know from torture, but that looked like what happened - Michael was kept from sleeping, apparently not given food or water, locked in a box (sensory deprivation) then when he was right on the edge, shown Walt and told "do exactly what we tell you, and you'll get him back". Michael broke down completely when they took Walt away again. I think Michael is well and truly compromised.
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Post by Matthew on May 18, 2006 8:55:45 GMT -5
Interesting. I have to agree with Rob that the anecdote Eko told seemed to clearly indicate to me at least that Eko knew what Michael had done. And I kept expecting that Michael had been brainwashed or something and no one has addressed this but hello why exactly did he kill Ana and Libby then? Why? I don't get it. He's suddenly a murderer Look - I'm a mother and I think under the right circumstances - someone raping my daughter or torturing my son - I could pull a trigger. But this was flat out murder. He couldn't try and be sneaky about freeing Gale? I mean - I just don't get it. Michael was supposedly a good guy. His flashbacks haven't shown this level of callous indifference to life and suddenly he's all kill em all? I don't buy it. Is the Island somehow weakening his moral fiber? I would be very interested to hear what someone more interpretive of this show has to say about this because Walt was obviously alive, not in mortal danger of dying - there is just no excuse for murder. Like Anne above this, I daresay he's flipped his wig: he's demanded the motor launch if he returns with the shopping list: it's a desperate, last-chance bid to escape a hell where he's been tied to a stake and questioned for the last week, to save his son: I think he's just crazy enough to not give a damn about his soul so much as he is about wanting to get away at all and any costs. Doesn't mean I forgive him two cold-blooded murders, but I think he's been pushed to the rubber-room state. He's 'round the bend, a few bricks shy, lost his religion, he's nutser than Hurley ever was.
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Post by Pixi on May 18, 2006 9:02:16 GMT -5
Interesting. I have to agree with Rob that the anecdote Eko told seemed to clearly indicate to me at least that Eko knew what Michael had done. And I kept expecting that Michael had been brainwashed or something and no one has addressed this but hello why exactly did he kill Ana and Libby then? Why? I don't get it. He's suddenly a murderer Look - I'm a mother and I think under the right circumstances - someone raping my daughter or torturing my son - I could pull a trigger. But this was flat out murder. He couldn't try and be sneaky about freeing Gale? I mean - I just don't get it. Michael was supposedly a good guy. His flashbacks haven't shown this level of callous indifference to life and suddenly he's all kill em all? I don't buy it. Is the Island somehow weakening his moral fiber? I would be very interested to hear what someone more interpretive of this show has to say about this because Walt was obviously alive, not in mortal danger of dying - there is just no excuse for murder. Like Anne above this, I daresay he's flipped his wig: he's demanded the motor launch if he returns with the shopping list: it's a desperate, last-chance bid to escape a hell where he's been tied to a stake and questioned for the last week, to save his son: I think he's just crazy enough to not give a damn about his soul so much as he is about wanting to get away at all and any costs. Doesn't mean I forgive him two cold-blooded murders, but I think he's been pushed to the rubber-room state. He's 'round the bend, a few bricks shy, lost his religion, he's nutser than Hurley ever was. Oh I see. I don't think the actor sold it enough then because I didn't get the vibe that he was losing it in that scene with Walt. He just seemed the same old Michael to me. A little sneakier but not totally off the bend. Hmmmm. Thanks Anne, Michael.
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Post by Matthew on May 18, 2006 9:04:30 GMT -5
Micheal snagged pretty darn quickly. Was that the same bearded guy? These guys looked . . . legitimately bearded. "The boy did not care about forgiveness". Only worried the dog would be there waiting. Well, well. Mr. Eko - always ther with the teaching story. It's gotta be the way I say. It's gotta be just the 5 of us. The Others only want those 5? But if only the 5 go, at LEAST tell all the others where you went and so on . . . Make some alternate or back up plans and stuff. I mean at least try to think of this logically. Claire and Charlie . . . Yay!! The rest of the plane folk are told that Michael's back! Awwww, everyone's so happy. And then they see the other bodies . . . "They were murdered." Well. That's a truthful statement. Why do they want those 5? Well, Michael? Insufficient data: he has to lead the other four on his shopping list back, so it's not certain if they want him other than as leverage over Walt. James Ford: Sees apparitions of the Island, including the boar that wanted to go camping, Kate's Pookah, and the guilt-frog that Hurley heard. Kate Austen: Sees the Pookah, also sees Sawyer's Boar. Similar reasons apply to removing her from the lostaways as apply to removing Jack, below. Hugo Reyes: Hears the Conscience-Frog, sees Dave (or is able to make Dave manifest himself corporeally, with the island's help). Jack Shepard: Wild-ass coincidences linking him to Desmond in the past. Has seen his dead father ambling around the island. And is more and more stepping into the role of the effective leader: other than his "special" nature at being able to see the island's manifestations, removing the guy that's radiated the Al Haig authority since the day of the crash is gonna cause unrest in the lostaways camp. That's all I got. Anybody else?
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Post by Sara on May 18, 2006 9:07:27 GMT -5
Interesting. I have to agree with Rob that the anecdote Eko told seemed to clearly indicate to me at least that Eko knew what Michael had done. And I kept expecting that Michael had been brainwashed or something and no one has addressed this but hello why exactly did he kill Ana and Libby then? Why? I don't get it. He's suddenly a murderer Look - I'm a mother and I think under the right circumstances - someone raping my daughter or torturing my son - I could pull a trigger. But this was flat out murder. He couldn't try and be sneaky about freeing Gale? I mean - I just don't get it. Michael was supposedly a good guy. His flashbacks haven't shown this level of callous indifference to life and suddenly he's all kill em all? I don't buy it. Is the Island somehow weakening his moral fiber? I would be very interested to hear what someone more interpretive of this show has to say about this because Walt was obviously alive, not in mortal danger of dying - there is just no excuse for murder. First, I agree with you--there's no excuse for what Michael did. However, I'm not sure he's completely indifferent or callous about what he did--his reaction upon shooting each woman, particularly Libby, indicated to me that he was pretty horrified with his actions on some level. But I think he's also convinced himself that such a step was necessary in order to save Walt. I've been trying to get myself into Michael's mindset to try and figure out what's led him down this particular road, and here's what I've come up with. - First, he's probably gotten very little sleep since Walt was taken from him, which in and of itself has no doubt severely impaired his ability to think clearly.
- He's very conscious of how little he's been involved in Walt's life, an awareness only heightened by that brutal exchange with Miss Clue, and I suspect that the more inadequate he feels as a father the more determined he becomes to do right by Walt now, come hell or high water.
- As I recall Michael is an architect/engineer, so he's most likely very linear in his mindset--he takes or looks for straight-line paths between goals, and tends to think very much inside the box. So whereas someone like Sawyer or Sayid would almost immediately have been inclined to find a more roundabout route towards the goal of releasing Henry (witness how Sawyer obtained the guns), Michael could only see the most obvious and straightforward means to his end. Yes, he did make an attempt at subterfuge, but one he clearly didn't think through all the way--if one person sits down for an hour and considers Michael's story objectively they're gonna find all sorts of holes in it.
- And finally, I think Michael is truly desperate to get Walt back, to the exclusion of all other considerations. I suspect he honestly believes that what he did to Ana Lucia and Libby and what he's about to do to his friends will be justified if it ends with him and Walt getting off the island. He's out for them and them alone: no one else matters.
Anyway, that's what I'm coming up with this morning.
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Post by Matthew on May 18, 2006 9:09:29 GMT -5
Like Anne above this, I daresay he's flipped his wig: he's demanded the motor launch if he returns with the shopping list: it's a desperate, last-chance bid to escape a hell where he's been tied to a stake and questioned for the last week, to save his son: I think he's just crazy enough to not give a damn about his soul so much as he is about wanting to get away at all and any costs. Doesn't mean I forgive him two cold-blooded murders, but I think he's been pushed to the rubber-room state. He's 'round the bend, a few bricks shy, lost his religion, he's nutser than Hurley ever was. Oh I see. I don't think the actor sold it enough then because I didn't get the vibe that he was losing it in that scene with Walt. He just seemed the same old Michael to me. A little sneakier but not totally off the bend. Hmmmm. Thanks Anne, Michael. Well, in the scene with Walt, they hadn't told him "run down to the beach, free "Henry" and pick up these four on this list, or you'll never see your boy again" yet. He hadn't quite hit the full-on desperate crazy. He was having his "Lady MacBeth" moment, in cleaning the floor, when Eko came in and told him "I know what you did" basically. And last week, the closing scene, with Michael standing in the "Jail Cell" room with the alarm chirping,and that look of complete lostness on his face: all I could think of is "It is the beeping of his hideous heart!!!!" And he seems WAY crackers, to me, compared even to when he slugged Locke to set off. Then, he was desperate but focused. Now? He's all over the place, jittery, as if he knows he's doomed, and it's the only course he feels he has left: it's not gonna work, but he's gone this far, he's gotta try. I think Jack saw it in Michael's eyes that Sayid was right, and saw Michael as the one who killed them, there at the final scene by the grave sides.
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Post by Matthew on May 18, 2006 9:14:10 GMT -5
Interesting. I have to agree with Rob that the anecdote Eko told seemed to clearly indicate to me at least that Eko knew what Michael had done. And I kept expecting that Michael had been brainwashed or something and no one has addressed this but hello why exactly did he kill Ana and Libby then? Why? I don't get it. He's suddenly a murderer Look - I'm a mother and I think under the right circumstances - someone raping my daughter or torturing my son - I could pull a trigger. But this was flat out murder. He couldn't try and be sneaky about freeing Gale? I mean - I just don't get it. Michael was supposedly a good guy. His flashbacks haven't shown this level of callous indifference to life and suddenly he's all kill em all? I don't buy it. Is the Island somehow weakening his moral fiber? I would be very interested to hear what someone more interpretive of this show has to say about this because Walt was obviously alive, not in mortal danger of dying - there is just no excuse for murder. First, I agree with you--there's no excuse for what Michael did. However, I'm not sure he's completely indifferent or callous about what he did--his reaction upon shooting each woman, particularly Libby, indicated to me that he was pretty horrified with his actions on some level. But I think he's also convinced himself that such a step was necessary in order to save Walt. I've been trying to get myself into Michael's mindset to try and figure out what's led him down this particular road, and here's what I've come up with. - First, he's probably gotten very little sleep since Walt was taken from him, which in and of itself has no doubt severely impaired his ability to think clearly.
- He's very conscious of how little he's been involved in Walt's life, an awareness only heightened by that brutal exchange with Miss Clue, and I suspect that the more inadequate he feels as a father the more determined he becomes to do right by Walt now, come hell or high water.
- As I recall Michael is an architect/engineer, so he's most likely very linear in his mindset--he takes or looks for straight-line paths between goals, and tends to think very much inside the box. So whereas someone like Sawyer or Sayid would almost immediately have been inclined to find a more roundabout route towards the goal of releasing Henry (witness how Sawyer obtained the guns), Michael could only see the most obvious and straightforward means to his end. Yes, he did make an attempt at subterfuge, but one he clearly didn't think through all the way--if one person sits down for an hour and considers Michael's story objectively they're gonna find all sorts of holes in it.
- And finally, I think Michael is truly desperate to get Walt back, to the exclusion of all other considerations. I suspect he honestly believes that what he did to Ana Lucia and Libby and what he's about to do to his friends will be justified if it ends with him and Walt getting off the island. He's out for them and them alone: no one else matters.
Anyway, that's what I'm coming up with this morning. Or, "What Sara said"
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