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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 28, 2006 19:02:00 GMT -5
Wow--I have another bit of knowledge not yet contributed? Awesome. Last night there was another name besides Penelope that made my ears prick up. Like John and Danielle before him, Desmond shares a last name with a famous philosopher: David Hume. He's even a fellow Scotsman to boot. From that same page, a brief summary of what Hume's philosophy was all about: Part of his fame and importance owes to his boldly skeptical approach to a range of philosophical subjects. He questioned common notions of personal identity, and argued that there is no permanent "self" that continues over time. He dismissed standard accounts of causality and argued that our conceptions of cause/effect relations are grounded in habits of thinking, rather than in the perception of causal forces in the external world itself. He argued that it is unreasonable to believe testimonies of alleged miraculous events, and, accordingly, hints that we should reject religions that are founded on miracle testimonies. Against the common belief of the time that God's existence could be proven through a design or causal argument, Hume offered compelling criticisms of standard theistic proofs. Also, against the common view that God plays an important role in the creation and reinforcement of moral values, Hume offered one of the first purely secular moral theories, which grounded morality in the pleasing and useful consequences that result from our actions.And the guy he replaced. Was his name Kelvin or Calvin---as in predestination Calvin. Or Kelvin as in temperature scale. Or something.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 28, 2006 19:10:37 GMT -5
Good timing. I was just planning on more speculative post and then must away. Jack and Kate clearly exchanged a look of some underlying understanding as their heads were covered. Once Michael knew he was uncovered my guess is that they made an actual plan. (Also why Hurley sort of asked Jack if he should really "leave".) My guess is that Michael is to meet up with Sayid and track the Others. Not sure what the entire plan is but now you've got Hurley, Sayid, Michael, Jin, Sun and Walt all free. I agree that Michael is not just sailing off. I don't much care for the actor/character and of course even less after his murderous rampage. (Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley seemed to take his confession awfully calmly. Strangely so.) But I agree with Sara that neither his, nor Walt's, storyline is over. Michael needs to die heroically to even partially redeem himself and to end the Walt storyline at this point would be a huge cheat. Oh, and, Sara, thanks for all the good insights into names. I will be seriously disappointed if Michael and Walt don't return next Fall. There's just too much baggage lingering from Michael's treachery, and Walt's powers, and what he could tell the Losties about the Others.
Michael has been emotionally fixated on Walt since the story began; and less on the boy himself than on Being A Good Father; to the point where sometimes Walt himself, what Walt needed or wanted, seemed to get overlooked. I think Michael will realize that slaughtering unarmed women is not part of Being A Good Father, that he had tried very hard to be a good father but then lost his way, and that part of being a good father was setting a good example, which he didn't do...And he'll also hear from Walt that Walt thinks he's a good father. After that happens, Michael will die, nobly or otherwise.
After all, Walt did yell out to Michael that he loved him, as the Others were dragging him away after their three minutes. The kid also tried his best to tell Michael that the Others weren't what they seemed to be, that they were "pretending".
Besides, I want to know what the deal is with the polar bear; and I want to see Locke take orphaned Walt under his wing without getting him killed like he did Boone. Vincent needs his boy back!
GAIL
I was sort of thinking along the same lines about Michael. That is was more about wanting Walt back to prove that he can be a good father than for Walt. So it was more about himself and getting validation after being estranged from Walt all this time. All that hinges on Walt never finding out what he did. That might be what "Henry" meant. If Michael stays away, then Walt never finds out. Crisis of conscience for Michael. Cause if he stays away, then it's going to continue to eat at him, I think.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 28, 2006 19:16:51 GMT -5
My vote is on "set up". At this point, I'm not sure which I'd find more believable: that it's all been planned, or that it's all a coicidence.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 28, 2006 19:18:02 GMT -5
And the guy he replaced. Was his name Kelvin or Calvin---as in predestination Calvin. Or Kelvin as in temperature scale. Or something. Probably completely meaningless, but when I googled Kelvin, one of the things I found was this: "KELVIN IS LORD!!! ALL PRAISE THE LORD KELVIN!! Only The One, True Lord KELVIN Can Conserve You From Entropy!" I think it's a joke... By the way, Liz, I really enjoy your commentaries.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on May 28, 2006 19:21:26 GMT -5
My vote is on "set up". At this point, I'm not sure which I'd find more believable: that it's all been planned, or that it's all a coicidence. I'm afraid it's going to turn out to be everything. All at once. Something Big on the island drew the original experimenters - Dharma and French Chick's group, then the experiments got out of hand and the Dharma observers either were all killed, ran away (that's a big black Id Monster, I'd run) or lost funding, and the experiments are all running unchecked and mutating all over the place. Or something. Kitchen sink (everything but) resolution. Or it could just turn out that everything we've been told is a lie, Chris Carter style. Gotta run, Kitty wants a turn.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 28, 2006 19:21:50 GMT -5
Our four-toed statue fragment might, in fact, have a point of reference other than LotR. Check out this from a short story titled Headlong Hall: The place is quite a wilderness," said Squire Headlong: "for, during the latter part of my father's life, while I was finishing my education, he troubled himself about nothing but the cellar, and suffered everything else to go to rack and ruin. A mere wilderness, as you see, even now in December; but in summer a complete nursery of briers, a forest of thistles, a plantation of nettles, without any livestock but goats, that have eaten up all the bark of the trees. Here you see is the pedestal of a statue, with only half a leg and four toes remaining: there were many here once. When I was a boy, I used to sit every day on the shoulders of Hercules: what became of him I have never been able to ascertain. Neptune has been lying these seven years in the dust-hole; Atlas had his head knocked off to fit him for propping a shed; and only the day before yesterday we fished Bacchus out of the horse-pond.(italics added by me) WHOA!! I bow to your research skilz, Sara.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 28, 2006 19:24:42 GMT -5
Oh, and how did none of us notice that Libby's husband just happened to have the same name as Hurley's imaginary friend? Including me, who was otherwise way into the name thing? *facepalms for the millionth time since realizing the connection* Makes you wonder if there was a David at all, or if perhaps Libby worked for Mr. Widmore... And help me if I'm wrong, but wasn't bearded guy called Tom? As in Christian Shephard's alias when with AL, not to mention Kate's first love? Ah, Hurley's imaginary friend, Dave. Another connection.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 28, 2006 19:29:50 GMT -5
Let's see: a compass bearing of 325 is 35 degrees west of North: approx North North-West. Save that compasses seem as if they are kinda useless if there's a strong magnetic source nearby: unless that little boat is equipped with a gyrocompass that has never been allowed to power down. I think they are doomed. Well, we can hope. I mean, Michael won't be shouting "Waaaaaaalt!" any more, but you know that Walt would have been wailing, " Vincent!" all the way home. ;D Yeah, that's a good point! Walt's gonna want Vincent back.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 28, 2006 19:55:56 GMT -5
I saw "Two For the Road" and I don't recall a scene in which Ana had turned in her badge. If you won't take our word for it, perhaps you'll take the TWOP recapper's word for it: Click here and go to the second-to-last paragraph on the page. Or, download the episode off Bittorrent's network. Or go to ABC and watch the first ten freaking minutes of the episode in question. 2X20: "Two for the Road" You have come here four times and 1) declared that you aren't going to continue watching the show and 2) insulted other posters here, either individually or as part of a group, for our opinions as to what each of us personally prefers in the way of television, writing choices, dramatic choices, etc. It's pretty clear that you aren't going to adhere to that first item: Three shows after Ana-Lucia is dead, you are still watching, so the show must have SOME hold on your imagination. I for one actually LIKE some of your questions: they force me to think and to evaluate the characters more: to examine their motivations. I have no problem with your posting here, as you have indeed provided interesting points to debate: I would sincerely prefer it if you'd stick to discussion of why the characters do what they do, and plot elements of the stories, rather than declaring that the people you are allegedly trying to have a discussion with are deluded individuals with no abillity to judge for themselves what THEY personally prefer. I don't think that there's a one of us here that would object to you stating "I don't like what I feel the writers are doing to the characters(in fact, we've had a huge discussion relating to Gilmore Girls along that path, recently)", nor would anybody do anything but ask you why you don't like Jack and Kate together, if you were to say "I don't like the Jate relationship" but remember that opinions are subjective things. You once erroneously stated that I hated the character of Ana-Lucia. I was rather astonished to find it out, because I was pretty sure I liked her: I've got a fondness for tough broads, in general. I also draw a distinction, personally, in the fictional universes I follow, (as I do in real life, as well) between liking a person as a whole and being dissapointed in some of their individual actions. To me, a well-written character is gonna act like an inconsistent, annoying, all-over-the-place, greedy, selfish, noble, giving, coveting human being, thanks to that "containing multitudes" thing. Fish, a parent will do almost anything to protect his child. Some of them will do anything: I personally would have found his behavior more understandable(not "forgiveable", but "understandable") if he'd been told "go back to the swan bunker, shoot all those guarding Henry and set him free, or you will never see Walt alive again": and even then, they were not threatening Walt's life, they were threatening Michael's newfound role as a father: his hope at redemption in his own eyes. I find him crazy for his actions, and pitiable, much like a rabid dog. I hope he redeems himself in whatever way he dies, for if he becomes sane, I doubt he could live with himself: he's already pulling "Lady MacBeth" tics all over the place. He's not longer for this world, to me, no matter what, for he did not kill to achieve his objective of freeing Walt: he murdered to achieve his objective. I state again that I personally feel I would kill ANYONE attempting to harm my child, or who had kidnapped and harmed my child: I would quite likely kill to liberate my child from those that would keep him from me against our mutual wishes. But Michael's clever plan to kill innocents: like Hurley said: "If you'd thought about it, you'd have still done it anyways, right?" I kind of feel that each different person has a different price for their soul: I think that Michael sold his for a lot less than I hope I'd let myself be forced to take for it. Michael had a tactical advantage in knowing where the Others were gonna put the drop on the four they wanted: he had a true idea of their numbers, and knowledge that they were not what they seemed from Walt's whispered information. With this data, he could have gone to his brothers from the raft, Sawyer and Jin, those who would have done ANYTHING for him, just about, and been able to get the drop on them. EVERYONE respected his love for his child. Instead, he allowed himself to be bullied and blackmailed, and did evil acts. As a side note, we've got a pretty diverse group here. With a variety of life experiences. Assuming that no-one here has ever been in a situation where their child was in danger from someone else, kidnapped or held hostage or in other peril, is part of a trend I see in your posts for reducing the PEOPLE here to the cardboard cutouts you apparently see the characters on this television show as. Feel free to continue coming here, and asking your interesting questions: even controversial ones like the one above, where you ask about Michael and why people judge him so harshly: it contributes to the discussion wonderfully. Disagree ALL you want! Use "I feel" or "in my opinion" or such, though. I don't even care if you complain about or laud writing choices or casting choices or other meta-stuff. But I (speaking for myself only) would really prefer it if you ceased insulting all those present who merely disagree with you. I find it tiresome, and I expect better of someone who has contributed to the discussion at the level you've done in the past. #metoo# #claps# Well put Matthew. Thank you.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 28, 2006 20:04:11 GMT -5
Or Kelvin as in temperature scale. Or something. Probably completely meaningless, but when I googled Kelvin, one of the things I found was this: "KELVIN IS LORD!!! ALL PRAISE THE LORD KELVIN!! Only The One, True Lord KELVIN Can Conserve You From Entropy!" I think it's a joke... By the way, Liz, I really enjoy your commentaries. And now that I think of it, the Kelvin scale is probably named after a famous dead physicist, as physics is wont to do. Wonder if there's significance there. ETA: Ookey-Dokey. Lord Kelvin
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 28, 2006 20:10:56 GMT -5
I loved this finale. And I love this show. And I love this discussion. And I don't even think we've scratched the surface.
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Post by rich on May 28, 2006 20:24:48 GMT -5
I loved this finale. And I love this show. And I love this discussion. And I don't even think we've scratched the surface. #metoo# I now see this show as so much more challanging than just a puzzle. To quote Salon reviewer Heather Havrilesky: "More than any other show I can think of, "Lost" struggles with the biggest, most difficult, most unanswerable questions. Clearly enriched by a wealth of historical, psychological and philosophical perspectives, the show's writers seem to delight in exploring the limits of emotional endurance, the darkness of human nature, and the challenge of a community to govern itself in the face of a messy tangle of disparate dispositions, ideologies and flaws. "
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Post by Matthew on May 29, 2006 5:46:52 GMT -5
THINKY-THOUGHTS: So we leave Locke and Eko unaccounted for, possibly dead (though I hope not), Hurley's headed back to the camp alone, Sayid is exploring the fake camp, Jin and Sun are on the boat, Jack/Sawyer/Kate are captured by the Others, and Michael and Walt are off on the motor boat to somewhere. And then there's the big group still on the beach. So 2 big questions were actually answered (unless later in the show we're going to find out that things didn't actually happen the way we think they did): The button has a real and critical purpose, and the plane crash was caused by the system failure. Desmond was in much the same position as our Losties. He did indeed end up on the island as he explained, as opposed to Henry's fake story. He's not with Dharma.The blast doors can be fairly easily manipulated. But when they came down in Lockdown, it seemed to be on schedule. I'm starting to think that Dharma and the Others are actually not the same. Kelvin didn't seem to think so. Some hints about the Widmore thing being more significant.Still not much explained about Libby, except there was indeed more to her than she let on. Lots of new questions, of course. Widmore's manufacture mark is on parts of Henry Gale's balloon equipment, and manufactured the pregnancy test that Sun took. Desmond, also, was racing towards his honor, on a 'round-the-world sailing race sponsored and with course mapped by Widmore and his company. Sailing races perhaps a way for the Island to get fresh meat? Or Desmond got a map that was slightly different than that usec by other competitors?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 29, 2006 7:23:17 GMT -5
Random speculation on the Foot (from community.livejournal.com/lost_tv/1352301.html):Okay, lets divert for a section and talk about the colossus foot. Could be a prop to create a mythic aire about the island for potential testees/future lab rats (It was placed fairly close to the ferry dock no?). But we also know many ancient colossal artifacts have been found using magnetic detection.. www.breiner.com/sheldon/olmec/What about the fact that some of the other colossal stones in the world have mysterious magnetic powers? www.dartmouth.edu/~izapa/CS-MM-Chap.%203.htmWhat other crazy stones of doom have magical healing properties? www.world-mysteries.com/sar_6_1.htmCould be crack, but at least it's interesting crack. Also, I've seen theories about how the statue is referencing some scientists speculation that humans will eventually evolve to lose their pinky toe, since it's basically vestigial anyway.
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Post by Karen on May 29, 2006 9:47:41 GMT -5
Probably completely meaningless, but when I googled Kelvin, one of the things I found was this: "KELVIN IS LORD!!! ALL PRAISE THE LORD KELVIN!! Only The One, True Lord KELVIN Can Conserve You From Entropy!" I think it's a joke... By the way, Liz, I really enjoy your commentaries. And now that I think of it, the Kelvin scale is probably named after a famous dead physicist, as physics is wont to do. Wonder if there's significance there. ETA: Ookey-Dokey. Lord Kelvin Kelvin - named after the River Kelvin. From reading, the river went past where he worked or taught. That's how their Barons were named. Anyhoooooooo.. You are evil, you are, Liz - and Anne. All the following randomness was taken from Wikipedia - starting with your link. Makes me wonder if the Lost writers are Wiki fans. William Thomson's first essay was Essay on the figure of the Earth - Kelvin - Lord Kelvin (or as Anne said - Lord Kelvin is Lord!), William Thomson said ~ You can understand perfectly, if you give your mind to it.
The term thermodynamics was coined by Lord Kelvin in his 1849 publication An Account of Carnot's Theory of the Motive Power of Heat.Following a link on the Kelvin page... * A common scientific joke, as stated by C.P. Snow (Snow is most noted for his lectures and books regarding his concept of "The Two Cultures", as developed in The Two Cultures and the Scientific Revolution (1959). Here he notes that the breakdown of communication between the sciences and the humanities is a major hindrance to solving the world's problems.
In particular, Snow argues that the quality of education in the world is on the decline. For example, many scientists have never read Charles Dickens, but artistic intellectuals are equally non-conversant with science.), expresses the four laws (of thermondynamics en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics ) simply and surprisingly accurately as:
Zeroth: "You must play the game." First: "You can't win." Second: "You can't break even." Third: "You can't quit the game."
* Attributed to Arnold Sommerfeld:
Another Snow quote: When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. Thermodynamics Thermodynamics is a funny subject. The first time you go through it, you don't understand it at all. The second time you go through it, you think you understand it, except for one or two small points. The third time you go through it, you know you don't understand it, but by that time you are so used to it, it doesn't bother you any more.
plasma physics - electromagetism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_physics#Magnetization
Complex electric circuits: Quasineutrality of a plasma requires that plasma currents close on themselves in electric circuits. Such circuits follow Kirchhoff's circuit laws, and possess an resistance and inductance magnetization.
Fusion power/shock waves -- At the temperatures required for fusion, the fuel is in the form of a plasma with very good electrical conductivity. This opens the possibility to confine the fuel and the energy with magnetic fields, an idea known as magnetic confinement
Tritium was first predicted in the late 1920s by Walter Russell, using his "spiral" periodic table, then produced in 1934 from deuterium, another isotope of hydrogen, by Ernest Rutherford, working with Mark Oliphant and Paul Harteck. Rutherford was unable to isolate the tritium, a job that was left to Luis Alvarez, who correctly deduced that the substance was radioactive. Willard F. Libby discovered that tritium could be used for dating water, and therefore wine.I wish I would've saved all my links. I like this tidbit about Maximum Entropy Thermodynamics: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_entropy Wiki also mentioned that Kelvin was an avid yachtsman and invented the adjustable compass. If these are clues to the island's mystery, I think that the island experiment that went bad had something to do with developing fusion fuel. That was a fun hour. And yes - I am very weird, but you all knew that, huh? ;D
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