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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:29:46 GMT -5
The title of your post raises a fascinating question, Ellie. Would Joss use the example of a carpenter sacrificing himself to save the people he loves? Every indication we've been given tells us he's a committed atheist. To close the show with such clear Christian symbolism would fly in the face of that.
On the other hand, we've already been given a Christmas miracle, a hero willing to sacrifice her life and 2 resurrections-one mystical and one natural. We have an ensouled vampire named Angel and a slayer named Faith. We have another vampire who sought out his Soul for love. We had a Big Bad called Glory and liberal usage of the words Heaven and Hell.
I take Joss at his word regarding his religious beliefs, or lack thereof. The fact remains, however, that Christian symbolism and terminology is all over the show, and morality and consequence are it's main themes.
Based on that, I wouldn't call it an enormous stretch that a normal human would willingly sacrifice himself to save the world and close the Hellmouth, thereby releasing Buffy from her burden and beating back the First.
My only qualm with this scenario is last year's events. Xander pretty much did this already with Willow. In addition, I really think it will come down to Buffy in the end, because it has to. Now, if she's forced to make a fateful decision to kill Xander for whatever reason, that's a legitimate possibility. Somehow it's going to come down to a crucial decision by her.
Rob Sorenson
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:33:11 GMT -5
I think this should have gone to the spoiler board rather than here, but a notice that you'd posted it there would have been appropriate. I don't think you were here, Patti, when we tried to work out the ground rules on what was a spoiler and what wasn't, but as Alexandra has made clear, we try to keep this board spoiler-free for those who like to keep their surprises, surprises.
That said, the news is certainly intriguing.
Nan Dibble
**Note from the editors -- We've moved the message, so you can check spoilers now to see the info, if you do want to know.**
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:34:06 GMT -5
I have asked the ScoopMe editors to remove the spoiler to a more appropriate place. If you have chosen to read it, please refrain from discussing it to make its removal (with associated posts) simpler for them.
Please forgive me if I've been high-handed, but Alexandra has been quite clear about the agreement to forego posting spoilers here. Since I happen to have noticed first, I have tried to take appropriate action in the traditions of revered Van Helsing U.
Nan
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:35:16 GMT -5
Robert said, "I really think it will come down to Buffy in the end, because it has to. Now, if she's forced to make a fateful decision to kill Xander for whatever reason, that's a legitimate possibility. Somehow it's going to come down to a crucial decision by her. "
Now we add to this mix, Paranormal Joyce telling Dawn, "When it's bad, Buffy won't choose you. She'll be against you."
So - is Buffy going to choose Xander for sacrifice rather than Dawn? And what does it mean, "She'll be against you."? It's been pretty well established that in a choice of hurting Dawn or hurting anyone else to keep Dawn safe, Buffy *will* hurt anyone else to keep Dawn safe. She said as much in season 5. So I don't see that she would choose any scenario that puts Dawn in any danger at all.
What intrigues me is that Paranormal Joyce sounded like she could see the future. I don't think the FE can do that. If PJ=FE then FE is just blowing smoke. If PJ is *not* FE then PJ may truly be foretelling the future. Therefore, either PJ was the FE - OR - PJ is telling the future. But the FE is not telling the future through PJ. Okay, head's spinning now, but I think the logic is in there somewhere.
I know there is not enough information to do much more than wildly speculate, but the clues are mounting up with no answers. I just hope when it is over, no loose ends remain. It is probably too much to expect that all minor loose ends from all seasons will be tied up.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:36:06 GMT -5
The First has given Dawn no attention in my opinion, which is a mistake; but it didn't want Joyce around to help, either. I think it was actually Joyce's spirit who appeared to Dawn. She could've been a little less cryptic if she really wanted to help, but there you are.
The phrase "Buffy won't choose you" is so ambiguous I haven't a clue where they're going with that. Perhaps if a sacrifice is needed to close the Hellmouth Buffy has to choose between the normal humans, and clearly in that scenario she wouldn't choose Dawn. In fact, I highly doubt that Xander would even allow Buffy to consider it. The Xander I know would give his life for the women he cares about without hesitation....and that scares me.
Does the First even register Xander on it's radar? There's been no evidence of this so far; I'd guess that he's not considered a threat. On the surface, he isn't of course......but he's Xander The Prophecy Slayer. Somehow the man finds a way to be crucial when he isn't supposed to. That's the beauty of him.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:37:08 GMT -5
Live from the S'cubie Website... brand new Fanfiction from Rusty Goode! (Okay, not liiiive, but ..well its a lively site *wink*)
Our own dear Rusty has submitted Chapter 7 of the Legions of Gorath for your perusal pleasure. Go forth and read, read, read!
Vlad, TA, tp
Edited By Vlad I at 3/6/2003 3:48:00 AM.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:39:48 GMT -5
Patti, I know you were sharing your spoiler info with the group in a spirit of truly sharing. Thank you. PLease do not be put off in any further postings. You are a newcomer and you very politely and wisely posted in big friggin' letters that a Spoiler was contained within. THANK YOU! There is only a tiny mention of being spoiler free in the heading of each new section of the Soulful Spike Society and it's easy to miss. You handled your spoiler very nicely and in such a wayas only htose that didn't care (or were uncontrolably tempted *G*) would read.
As Nan said, we like to keep the S'cubie section free from spoilers and basically adhere to the rules that are upheld in the Episodes area: Nothing that isn't in the show or the previews. True, we talk aobut some things like SMG leaving, but really, when 18 periodicals and my opening homepage from Netscape are blaring it at me, how much of a spoiler is it? *L*
Anyway, Nan may have come across a bit gruff, but what she said is precisely, perfectly the way to share spoiler info...post it on the spoiler board and then discreetly mention that should someone want to know more about.. oh..say if Miss Kitty Fantastico will or won't make an appearance in Season 7's Episode 22, that they should go there for it. The whole key is discretion and making sure that we can't figure out the spoiler by the referal.
Thank you Nan, for going to the authorities and requesting it moved. *mutters "snitch"* *wink*
Just kidding! Really, thanks for catching it and helping to keep out little area of the web spoiler free!
Vlad, TA, tp
Edited By Vlad I at 3/6/2003 4:35:00 AM.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:41:07 GMT -5
Okay sweetie, the ballots have been sent in and I have already forwarded them to your email. Let me know when you have a winner to announce and I will post it on the webpage...probably with some cute little cheesy graphic.
That reminds me.. we need to get working on those Member Profiles. Everyone expect an email soon with a questionaire. Also, for those of you that want to, when you fill out and email back the questionaire, attach a picture of yourself to it. But only if you wnat to.
Vlad, TA, tp
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:42:26 GMT -5
Patti, I'm glad that Vlad (who is a vastly more tactful person than I) took the time to explain a bit more fully than I had done (I tend to revert to my native Formal past midnight--I'd stayed up late because the never-to-be-sufficiently-sneered-at PTB had bumped the new Angel ep to 11 p in favor of a local HS basketball game, scaring the unmentionable out of me until I found the listing) about the way to handle spoilers.
I am glad of the news you brought! Neither I nor anyone else is angry at you. And just as you weren't here for the spoiler discussion, you weren't here to know it was MY misdeed that brought it on. I was among the earlier innocent offenders who got the no-spoiler drill thumped into my head. So I don't forget it! I learn almost entirely by trial and error: mostly error (mine) and trial (everybody else's).
If I came over as curt, I'm sorry. And as it happens, I personally have nothing at all against spoilers. They don't spoil things for me. So I have to try specially hard to remember and be thoughtful of those to whom the surprise is an important part of their enjoyment.
You weren't to know. Please don't feel bad. I was young (on this board) once, too--about two weeks ago, and well may be again (c.f. the trial and error thing). My position at dear imaginary Van Helsing U. is janitor: clean-up is a dirty job, but somebody has to do it and I volunteered.
The nice ScoopMe editors will come and make everything all better soon.
Nan
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:43:10 GMT -5
::I wonder how the sock is secured on? Anyone care to speculate?: Spring said :Saliva?: ... :As my grandmother used to say, "Held together by a lick and a promise." :
Soooo, Who provided the saliva? Where can I get this job?
Diane U
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:44:01 GMT -5
Good observations on Dru, Harmony & Buffy, Rusty.
One thing that was consistent with all three was Spike basically trying to be whatever was wanted. Dru wanted a very wicked bad-boy, Harmony – until she finally got some gumption – practically begged to be knocked around, and Buffy wanted a sex machine. And that’s what they got.
With the Buffy-bot, he got to do what he wanted - which seemed to be: Have a lot of sex, do some fighting, give and receive some love, and be seen as a scary but irresistible hunk of manhood.
Spring Summers
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:44:44 GMT -5
Sci-Fi Wire has as its current poll which BtVS character you'd like to see lead a new spin-off series. One of the choices is Spike. The URL is: www.scifi.com/scifiwire/Look at the right-hand panel for the poll. Your experience may be different, but the site let me put in two votes, not one (which it's not supposed to do). You may want to take advantage of this. Sci-Fi Wire is VERY well-regarded and noticed in the industry, so the results poll (though unscientific) very well may publicized beyond the poll itself. And Sci-Fi Wire has frequent news items and short interviews with ME writers and cast members, so poll results would be likely, I think, to be noticed by ME. Nan
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:45:37 GMT -5
It wouldn't allow me to vote twice from my computer at work, but I'll try it again from my home computer.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:47:03 GMT -5
So, I'm going to get my feet wet here, who else saw Angel last night? Eliza Dushku rocked as Faith. She was better than she's ever been before with a subtle, restrained performance that showed how much she has changed.
Favorite quote of the show:
ANGEL: (into telephone) "Hello Dawn? Is your sister there?" (pause) "She is?" (hangs up) "It's the OTHER one."
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Post by Dalton on Jul 9, 2003 13:47:41 GMT -5
to the Spoiler boards. So everyone, please head over there to check it out and talk it over.
Thanks to all for being patient and gracious with a new poster. Patti, Nan, Vlad. You're all what makes ScoopMe so much fun.
Kim W., Editor
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