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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 3, 2004 0:26:43 GMT -5
Who else was liking Harry Hamlin as Logan's dad? I mean the actor in the role, not "liking" his dad, obviously. I thought it was a nice touch of good casting. And hey, it's Logan's dad; bet we see him a few more times in the role. Also, notice Logan's mom tossing back the drink, while Logan's dad beat him? No wonder that Logan drinks. How many times you think Mom got "corrected?" Vlad LOVE the casting here. That actress is Harry Hamlin's real life wife. I can't remember her name. I am wondering if she will be "mom' or step-mom.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 3, 2004 0:29:25 GMT -5
Well - this is a bummer. The show is on so late here, that I miss all the active discussion. Phooey.
Time for bed. Later.
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Post by raenstorm on Nov 3, 2004 7:26:57 GMT -5
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Post by Karen on Nov 3, 2004 7:37:35 GMT -5
Ok S'cubies - VM is starting now, so I haven't read any of your comments to avoid spoilerness. I am going to try commenting on the show as I watch - here we go!
Hmmm. Wanda. From pep-squad to Sheila from SchoolHard? What has happened to her? Maybe her father did something to piss off one of the rich kid's dads" a few years ago. Interesting that you are paralleling the homeless Vet with Duncanc. Do you think that Duncan sat idly by another time? Like when Lily was killed? Yeah, she was good. She and the "new" teacher are going to come to blows in the future, I bet. "You're New" was said quite a few times last night. Like in - "you don't know how things work around here." My sister just quit a job at a private school after 7 years because she couldn't deal with the whole "double standard" in treatment the kids were forced to live under. No wonder kids get so screwed up. I agree! Loved your real time commentary, Spring.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 3, 2004 8:16:24 GMT -5
Maybe her father did something to piss off one of the rich kid's dads" a few years ago. Interesting that you are paralleling the homeless Vet with Duncanc. Do you think that Duncan sat idly by another time? Like when Lily was killed? <snip> I wondered about that, too - Duncan either sat idly by with Lilly's murder, so Veronica's comment got to him . . . or he is somehow culpable, and so he doesn't trust himself anymore, and has decided it is better to sit idly by. We see in the flashback that he wasn't the sort of person who used to sit idly by, before the murder - though when he intervened to help the guy being harrassed, he seemed to be doing it more for Veronica's approval than anything else. I am reserving judgement on Duncan. I don't quite understand him yet. He not a very well defined character, which I think is deliberate - because he's not a very well defined person, yet. He's very young and unformed; more than any of the teens. He's pleasing Veronica, or he's pleasing Mom or Dad, and Logan has to browbeat him into running for Council. Though he does step up to the plate. All the potential is there. The characters on the show are very complex - even Logan's dad, and Logan's relationship with his dad, is not painted entirely with a black brush - note that Aaron Echolls does that video at Logan's request. Can't imagine any other reason he would have done that, except to please Logan. And that he seems completely taken in, at first, by Logan's "I love you." Don't think that's the first time he's heard that, or received a hug from Logan. So, interesting. I am liking the realistic, complex portrayals. Love Harry Hamlin in the role, and hope we see more of him.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 3, 2004 8:29:20 GMT -5
Ok S'cubies - VM is starting now, so I haven't read any of your comments to avoid spoilerness. I am going to try commenting on the show as I watch - here we go!
Oh! Look who Logan's dad is!! On to a dad moment with Duncan, and then Veronica talking about Father/Daughter days. And Wallace talks about being fatherless. Am I sensing a theme here? Hmmm. Wanda. From pep-squad to Sheila from SchoolHard? What has happened to her? Oh - homeless Vet gets in Logan's face! Duncan is not so upfront or confident, and lets Logan get away with "forcing him to box." Duncan wins, but Veronica suspects voter fraud! What a nice election day story for us all. What is coming next? Hanging chads? I like this actress playing Maggie Walsh.
Oh! Seems people thought they were voting for Al Gore, but were actually voting for Pat Buchanan! That explains that. Another father/child moment. Jake gently telling Duncan what to do. Logan making Duncan's wish come true (since he is just standing idly by.) Negative campaigning! Enquiring minds want to know: What WAS Wanda really doing during the Vietnam War? Time to find another bad guy, says Logan. Yep - not Abel. Uh-oh. Logan is in trouble. Another father/child moment. Yeeee. Unlike Aaron Echolls, Jake uses honey rather than vinegar with his son. Lily & Weevil? Bad boys, bad boys. Lily went for bad boys? Logan just finished saying he wasn't one. Ugh. Icky. Getting the cameras there is the important part, not teaching his son a lesson. Right after Aaron can't turn down money, the homeless guy says "did you find someone who was willing to make a bitch out of himself for cash?"
Logan really is sorry - but he actually learns his lesson from homeless guy, not dad. Oh! Way to go, Logan!!! "Thanks a lot son, just the same . . . Ventura Highway, in the sunshine . . ."
Oh! Look who Logan's (step?) mom is! Ick! Logan getting a beating. Poor baby.
Veronica to Wanda: "You were willing to wreck my future, to save your own?"
And we end on another father/child moment - a much friendlier confrontation and quick, non-violent resolution, for Veronica and Keith.Wow. Good episode. Heee! I like this real-time posting thing. It's like we're peeking into your head. Only not in a creepy way. ;D Lola
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Post by Lola m on Nov 3, 2004 8:31:22 GMT -5
When dad shoved Logan the way he did - and Logan's reaction (body language as you mention) at that point - it pretty much broadcast what was to come. That actor playing Logan is doing a really good job. He just came off as such a "kid" during the episode. . . so vulnerable and dependent, despite his acting out. Nicely done. I even noticed his voice crack when he announced "the fight" and that cracking, kid's voice . . . it just brought it home that something was really wrong with this child. Yes! The voice cracking really struck me. 'Cuz they don't do stuff like that on a TV show unless it means something. I mean, if it's just a glitch, they'd re-shoot the scene or dub over the sound. Lola
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Post by Matthew on Nov 3, 2004 11:19:13 GMT -5
Yes! The voice cracking really struck me. 'Cuz they don't do stuff like that on a TV show unless it means something. I mean, if it's just a glitch, they'd re-shoot the scene or dub over the sound. Lola Huh.. I did notice the voice break myself.. but I was so disgusted with the bum-boxing that I didn't let it intrude into my consciousness. I suppose Spring's right, that he is merely young, and that's supposed to highlight it, but I have this internal moral certainty (to be read as "priggishness" at times) that some things are just... wrong... I can be judgemental at times. I can see how his moral sense was blunted by being raised by the morally ambiguous (at best) father.
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Post by Lola running by on Nov 3, 2004 11:31:09 GMT -5
Thanks, Rae! I wasn't able to get to the live chat, so I appreciate seeing a bit of it here. Nothing earthshatteringly new here, but still good to read something about the show! ;D Lola
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 3, 2004 11:41:15 GMT -5
Huh.. I did notice the voice break myself.. but I was so disgusted with the bum-boxing that I didn't let it intrude into my consciousness. I suppose Spring's right, that he is merely young, and that's supposed to highlight it, but I have this internal moral certainty (to be read as "priggishness" at times) that some things are just... wrong... I can be judgemental at times. I can see how his moral sense was blunted by being raised by the morally ambiguous (at best) father. Agree - Logan's behavior was wince-worthy-disgusting. I agree with your moral certainty that the behavior is just plain wrong, and wouldn't put it in the priggish category at all. But the behavior can be separated from the person, to an extent. I don't think Logan is through and through bad - though if he wasn't so young, and screwed up by persons he is still dependent on - and if I hadn't gotten the feeing that he had actually understood that his actions were wrong - I might not be so generous. His behavior toward the homeless guys was awful. I think we're meant to think about responsibility in general here - to what extent is Logan culpable for the fact that these two are fighting, and to what extent are the fighters themselves responsible? Why didn't they say no? Are they as vulnerable and without defenses as children? Is Logan taking advantage of their desperate need for money to satisfy his urge for some feeling of control and revenge, or are they taking advantage of Logan's desperation to satisfy their urge for money? The homeless Vet calls him "Don King." Is he so different from Don King, who legitimately (well, OK, but work with me here) does almost the exact same thing? I don't have any answers here, but it's what the episode makes me think about.
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Post by karen unfocused on Nov 3, 2004 12:10:19 GMT -5
Huh.. I did notice the voice break myself.. but I was so disgusted with the bum-boxing that I didn't let it intrude into my consciousness. I suppose Spring's right, that he is merely young, and that's supposed to highlight it, but I have this internal moral certainty (to be read as "priggishness" at times) that some things are just... wrong... I can be judgemental at times. I can see how his moral sense was blunted by being raised by the morally ambiguous (at best) father. I got that "it was wrong" vibe, too. Even with the cracking voice - he had to *know* it was wrong -but he still did it. So, how will he be redeemed? Can he be redeemed? Will he want to be redeemed? can't concentrate on work
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Post by Becky H on Nov 3, 2004 13:44:18 GMT -5
I got that "it was wrong" vibe, too. Even with the cracking voice - he had to *know* it was wrong -but he still did it. So, how will he be redeemed? Can he be redeemed? Will he want to be redeemed? can't concentrate on work Just chiming in with the Logan curiousity: how far down the road to permanently "wrong" is this kid? Did anyone else notice that when Logan chose the belt for his punishment, he made it into a noose-like loop before taking it to Daddy? Was it meant to signify that he's suicidal? Or was it a weapon? Deep, dark thoughts today.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Nov 3, 2004 14:53:14 GMT -5
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Nov 3, 2004 15:00:16 GMT -5
I'm very disappointed. I thought I set the vcr to tape VM, but got home LATE and found I'd done it wrong. Then in my hurry to start watching what was left, I forgot to turn the vcr on and tape what was left. In my extremely tired state, my mind was drifting and I missed many of the points being made, so I don't have much useful to contribute to the discussion this week. I'm going to go back and read everyone's comments and then just wait til I get Vlad's vcd in the mail and enjoy the episode then. I was happy to see that Duncan won on his own at the end and had some good ideas of what he wanted to accomplish. And poor Logan....a lot was explained about him this week. I know this was a good episode - I just will have to wait to fully appreciate it.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Nov 3, 2004 15:07:47 GMT -5
How about "Donut's" dad smiling at him at hte end. And the speech in the car. He sounds like a man that is concerned and loves his son. His speech about accepting Dunc's choice to live in a hut doing art... with a degree from wherever... it was so very fatherly. WE saw three fathers tonight: Dunc's, Veronica's and Logan's. Each of htem very different , each of them trying to raise their children. Two doing it in acceptable, if nto perfect, ways and one that is way off the map. The result, two of the kid's apparently decent people, and one that looks like he could be, but seems to jsut miss. Be an interesting essay point once we see a bit more of this series. Vlad *nodding happily in agreement* something I DID glean from my fractured viewing!
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