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Post by Rob on Dec 15, 2004 19:12:42 GMT -5
Oh - True! She looks like she could suck the life out of you with them.  Among other things. Hey, it's Wednesday....and I'm a guy. Cut me some slack. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 15, 2004 20:12:28 GMT -5
Among other things. Hey, it's Wednesday....and I'm a guy. Cut me some slack.Rob! I am shocked and stunned and offended on behalf of myself and all the other ladies of delicate sensitivity who read this board. |
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Dec 15, 2004 20:27:58 GMT -5
Spring-- TV Guide has this episode listed as "An Echolls' Family Christmas." I don't know where Patti got the other title (the next two weeks are repeats on TV Guide--my only source of title information--she must have some other site which looks further into the future). I'm going to use my moderator status and change the title of this episode. And now I see both Lola and Matthew are well ahead of me. Apologies for not reading ahead first. (It's not like there were 15 pages.  ) I went to the only site I could find that had the titles - and that was what was listed. DUH I didn't think of going to the tv guide  |
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Post by Sue on Dec 15, 2004 21:00:10 GMT -5
Rob! I am shocked and stunned and offended on behalf of myself and all the other ladies of delicate sensitivity who read this board.
Who? |
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Post by Sue on Dec 15, 2004 21:03:02 GMT -5
Her name is Lisa Rinna. She used to be on Days of Our Lives (one of Bo's flames).
She was definitely one of the early collogen injectors (but it does look like somebody botched something at some point, doesn't it?)
She and Harry have been married for a while now.
Thinking the same thing as you all--actress AND actor definitely fit the part(s). (Butt of an 18 year old wrestler?)
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Post by Lola m on Dec 15, 2004 22:14:40 GMT -5
I rewatched. Regarding the conversation and Jake what Veronica said was, "Why did she tell me or my father....." (But it did sound a bit like "why did she tell me you were my father...") Definitely did not call jake her father, but have to wonder what Keith was thinking when he saw them thru the window. Lots more thoughts, but might use some in my review. Sue OK, whew! I'm not insane then, just have jumbled ears. (And didn't rewind and rewatch yet, because of Lost and so on, so thanks for providing the info!!  ) Lola |
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Post by Sue on Dec 15, 2004 22:17:32 GMT -5
Her name is Lisa Rinna. She used to be on Days of Our Lives (one of Bo's flames). She was definitely one of the early collogen injectors (but it does look like somebody botched something at some point, doesn't it?) She and Harry have been married for a while now. Thinking the same thing as you all--actress AND actor definitely fit the part(s). (Butt of an 18 year old wrestler?) He's 53. They married in 1997 and have two daughters born in 1998 and 2001. He has a 24 year old son as well. |
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Post by Guest I reg as Pixi on Dec 16, 2004 8:19:55 GMT -5
Hi - I've been trying to register - but even though the board says it is sending my password to my email - it hasn't shown up either time. So . . . . My email is Pixiskater@aol.com. I have been trying to find a private way to send this message to the board administrators but the help page doesn't seem to give you that option. Anyway, if someone could contact me, I would appreciate it. I belong to other boards and have enjoyed reading Spring Summers' analysis of Buffy and VM particularly (and since I am also a fan of LOST) I tried to register.
Sorry about inserting this into a general discussion.
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Spring not logged in yet
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Post by Spring not logged in yet on Dec 16, 2004 8:26:29 GMT -5
Hi - I've been trying to register - but even though the board says it is sending my password to my email - it hasn't shown up either time. So . . . . My email is Pixiskater@aol.com. I have been trying to find a private way to send this message to the board administrators but the help page doesn't seem to give you that option. Anyway, if someone could contact me, I would appreciate it. I belong to other boards and have enjoyed reading Spring Summers' analysis of Buffy and VM particularly (and since I am also a fan of LOST) I tried to register. Sorry about inserting this into a general discussion. Pixi - hello! I just checked in and noticed this . . . I will log in and send a message to the technopagans about the trouble you are having getting your password. Glad you enjoy my analyses and please join in on any of our discussions! I'll go send that message now - I'll tell them to check here for a message from you. Spring |
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Post by Lola m on Dec 16, 2004 8:29:25 GMT -5
Hi - I've been trying to register - but even though the board says it is sending my password to my email - it hasn't shown up either time. So . . . . My email is Pixiskater@aol.com. I have been trying to find a private way to send this message to the board administrators but the help page doesn't seem to give you that option. Anyway, if someone could contact me, I would appreciate it. I belong to other boards and have enjoyed reading Spring Summers' analysis of Buffy and VM particularly (and since I am also a fan of LOST) I tried to register. Sorry about inserting this into a general discussion. No problem! I am not a technopagen, so I can't solve the missing email thing-y, but I have send a PM to one of the techs asking them to look into your problem. Lola Welcome to the board and please continue to join us for Buffy, VM and Lost discussion. Also, come on over to the main thread, whether as guest or once registered, and join the general chat. |
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Post by Guest Pixi on Dec 16, 2004 10:22:25 GMT -5
I will check my email periodically and hopefully the password will show up. Thanks for the welcome - I've lurked and read most of the Buffy/Angel, VM and Lost analysis and have enjoed them immensely. I look forward to joining in the various discussions.
Pixi
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Post by Sue on Dec 16, 2004 10:38:14 GMT -5
I will check my email periodically and hopefully the password will show up. Thanks for the welcome - I've lurked and read most of the Buffy/Angel, VM and Lost analysis and have enjoed them immensely. I look forward to joining in the various discussions. Pixi Woo and hoo! A N'ubie delurks! Okay, now I'm motivated. Hey, Pixi. Hopefully they'll get your problem cleared up quickly. Of course, you can post as a guest, but then you don't get "credit" under your name. If you stop by the main thread lots of people will also welcome you. I'm going now: wrapping presents; writing my review of VM. I thought it was a great episode and need to get the review out so then I can start commenting on other stuff. (Also, when you finally get signed in you'll find I IM'd you when you signed up, just to say hi.) |
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 22, 2004 8:13:00 GMT -5
Nicely done, Sue. An enjoyable read - I liked the way you pointed out the visual richness and contrasts in the episode - and I agree it told us a lot about Logan. His mom comments that Lilly's death was hard on him, and along with the abusive home situation, the boy has a lot to try to overcome. I agree that his relationship with Weevil, for all its nasty surface tension, seems to represent hope and a lifeline for him.
This is one of the best eps so far, in my book.
You mention that Aaron's life was saved, but we don't really know that, do we? Though I am guessing you are right.
Loved the Keith/Columbo comparison. He does use something of the same, "low key, just little ol' me" approach.
I just can't get a grip on the overall story though, concerning Jake - Jake thinks Celeste may have hired Clarence to take the pictures of Veronica that were used to scare Lianne. Surely these pictures have something to do with Lianne's departure - she thought it was safer for Veronica if she left. So . . . Jake thinks Celeste wanted Lianne to leave. Kind of points to an ongoing Lianne/Jake affair. But surely Lilly's death is a part of this mess, and why would someone kill Lilly?
Notice all the "L" names in this show: Lianne. Lilly. Lynn. Logan. Not that it means anything besides the fact that I have to watch what I'm typing.
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Post by Sue on Dec 22, 2004 11:30:11 GMT -5
Nicely done, Sue. An enjoyable read - I liked the way you pointed out the visual richness and contrasts in the episode - and I agree it told us a lot about Logan. His mom comments that Lilly's death was hard on him, and along with the abusive home situation, the boy has a lot to try to overcome. I agree that his relationship with Weevil, for all its nasty surface tension, seems to represent hope and a lifeline for him. This is one of the best eps so far, in my book. You mention that Aaron's life was saved, but we don't really know that, do we? Though I am guessing you are right. Loved the Keith/Columbo comparison. He does use something of the same, "low key, just little ol' me" approach. I just can't get a grip on the overall story though, concerning Jake - Jake thinks Celeste may have hired Clarence to take the pictures of Veronica that were used to scare Lianne. Surely these pictures have something to do with Lianne's departure - she thought it was safer for Veronica if she left. So . . . Jake thinks Celeste wanted Lianne to leave. Kind of points to an ongoing Lianne/Jake affair. But surely Lilly's death is a part of this mess, and why would someone kill Lilly? Notice all the "L" names in this show: Lianne. Lilly. Lynn. Logan. Not that it means anything besides the fact that I have to watch what I'm typing. Spring, Yes, I loved that throughout, but 15 minutes after I sent the review off (lying in bed) I realized that I had been seduced and distracted by the lights, tinsel and shiny baubles of the episode--in the form of all the visual richness-- from the really important character stuff of the episode. I really think the observations about Logan and all of his interactions throughout the episode--Weevil, Duncan, Veronica, his "friends" Sean and Connor, his non-interactions with his parents--form the real meat of the episode. The episode itself perfectly illustrates how image(s) are used to smooth over and distract from the seamy underbelly of uncomfortable emotions and relationships. -- It "practiced" what it was "preaching!" Which is why the "downhome" ordinariness of the visuals involving Keith and Veronica actually stand out--their honesty (mostly?--at least where their love for one another is concerned) needs no elaborate image to compensate or disguise their attachment to one another. |
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Post by Lola m on Dec 22, 2004 16:15:43 GMT -5
Sue –
Great review!
I also really really liked this episode. The father & daughter cases (LOL for the Hercule Poirot and Columbo references), the deeper peek into the Echolls family, the flashbacks, the snappy dialog (snerk – I think Veronica is channeling BOTH Buffy and Spike), and so on. It was all just great!
The Logan and Duncan “breaking up” stuff was very funny. I also thought it had some important undercurrents we should be noting. Duncan is just now really seeing the cruel part of Duncan’s behavior and words? And says stuff about him “going over to the dark side”? So, does this mean that Logan really was a better guy before and has been getting meaner (possibly due to events like Lily’s murder and the cumulative affect of his dad’s violence) or does it mean that Logan has done a good job of hiding that side of him from Duncan? Logan looks kind of startled and a bit hurt (which he hides behind snarky comments) when Duncan first says this stuff to him. So does this mean that he himself doesn’t see how his behavior has changed? Or does it just show us that Duncan doesn’t really know about Logan’s life and Logan himself as much as he thought and Logan is not happy about that?
Eetah with all those who have remarked on your comments about visual imagery. You did an excellent job of pointing out the amazing look of this episode (I have been very impressed with the camera shots and visuals of several of the eps now – Girl Next Door, for one). As you mentioned, the final scenes with the carolers intercut with the stabbing – absolutely stunning! But your cleverest bit was segueing from the notes about the imagery to the paragraphs about the mysteries of Logan and Lily. Looking underneath and beyond the “tinsel and trappings”. (The fact that you realized after you sent it off to Vlad that you had been “tricked” by the visuals too, just shows how good they were.) ‘Cuz that’s what this show is doing so very very well. Showing us the pretty layers of Neptune and then peeling them away selectively so we keep getting closer to answers while raising even more questions.
We really do get some insight into why Logan is lashing out at everyone, usually verbally. I think it is very likely, as you suggest, that Mr. Echolls began his treatment of Logan with words. How else would the phrase “the son Aaron Echolls never had” have been well known enough for Connor to know about it if Aaron hadn’t said it or at least suggested it? And I think you are very right that Weevil is being extraordinarily calm about the slurs aimed at him. It’s odd to think that he may actually have more insight into Logan than his long-time best friend Duncan. After all, it is Weevil who gives Logan a sympathetic look when the boys are making comments about Mrs. Echolls and Duncan who joins in with the comments and continues to play drunk, not seeming to notice Logan’s reaction. I think you may be very right in your assessment that Weevil may turn out to be a lifeline for him. I also suspect that Veronica will provide that support as well.
I totally agree that the small scene between Veronica and Jake may well prove to be one of more important ones. The ripples have already started to spread – to Keith, as he looks on; to Celeste, as she is confronted by Jake; to Mrs. Echolls and the other party guests who witnessed the confrontation. We have only begun to see the fallout. I am waiting, in particular, to see if we get a conversation between Veronica and her father right away, or will he keep silent until pushed by something else? Everything keeps swirling back to Lily’s murder. It’s not that her murder started the Neptune habit of covering up the truth with trappings. Rather, it’s that habit of hiding the truth that will, I think, prove to be the reason for the murder.
And lastly, a nice summarizing paragraph:
Lola
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