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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 22, 2004 17:34:35 GMT -5
Sue – Great review! I also really really liked this episode. The father & daughter cases (LOL for the Hercule Poirot and Columbo references), the deeper peek into the Echolls family, the flashbacks, the snappy dialog (snerk – I think Veronica is channeling BOTH Buffy and Spike), and so on. It was all just great! The Logan and Duncan “breaking up” stuff was very funny. I also thought it had some important undercurrents we should be noting. Duncan is just now really seeing the cruel part of Duncan’s behavior and words? And says stuff about him “going over to the dark side”? So, does this mean that Logan really was a better guy before and has been getting meaner (possibly due to events like Lily’s murder and the cumulative affect of his dad’s violence) or does it mean that Logan has done a good job of hiding that side of him from Duncan? Logan looks kind of startled and a bit hurt (which he hides behind snarky comments) when Duncan first says this stuff to him. So does this mean that he himself doesn’t see how his behavior has changed? Or does it just show us that Duncan doesn’t really know about Logan’s life and Logan himself as much as he thought and Logan is not happy about that? I thought it was interesting that when Veronica exposed Duncan's "pretending to be drunk" ploy, it added a bit of the "hypocritical" to Duncan's words to Logan. Duncan himself wasn't exactly on the up-and-up. Hence a quality of sheepishness to the "getting back together" scene for Duncan and Logan. I get the impression that Lilly had been a loving and stabilizing influence in Logan's young life - someone he could confide in, etc. I'll bet she knew all about his beatings and what-not - and provided comfort. Think what a hole that would leave in his life. That first death - it is major trauma for anyone, much less a young and very vulnerable kid like Logan. Weevil knows what it means to have a tough exterior but a marshmallow center. He is that way himself, and he senses the same in Veronica, and in Logan. He also shares their pain about Lilly. I can't wait to see how this all works out! Since the next ep - Silence of the Lamb - was originally scheduled to air BEFORE this one, I think it is a safe bet that we won't see any developments on the stuff that specifically happened in this ep. But I'm guessing will get some insight into Sheriff Lamb and learn about some secret he is keeping mum about.
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Post by Sue on Dec 22, 2004 19:02:05 GMT -5
Sue – Great review! I also really really liked this episode. The father & daughter cases (LOL for the Hercule Poirot and Columbo references), the deeper peek into the Echolls family, the flashbacks, the snappy dialog (snerk – I think Veronica is channeling BOTH Buffy and Spike), and so on. It was all just great! The Logan and Duncan “breaking up” stuff was very funny. I also thought it had some important undercurrents we should be noting. Duncan is just now really seeing the cruel part of Duncan’s behavior and words? And says stuff about him “going over to the dark side”? So, does this mean that Logan really was a better guy before and has been getting meaner (possibly due to events like Lily’s murder and the cumulative affect of his dad’s violence) or does it mean that Logan has done a good job of hiding that side of him from Duncan? Logan looks kind of startled and a bit hurt (which he hides behind snarky comments) when Duncan first says this stuff to him. So does this mean that he himself doesn’t see how his behavior has changed? Or does it just show us that Duncan doesn’t really know about Logan’s life and Logan himself as much as he thought and Logan is not happy about that? Eetah with all those who have remarked on your comments about visual imagery. You did an excellent job of pointing out the amazing look of this episode (I have been very impressed with the camera shots and visuals of several of the eps now – Girl Next Door, for one). As you mentioned, the final scenes with the carolers intercut with the stabbing – absolutely stunning! But your cleverest bit was segueing from the notes about the imagery to the paragraphs about the mysteries of Logan and Lily. Looking underneath and beyond the “tinsel and trappings”. (The fact that you realized after you sent it off to Vlad that you had been “tricked” by the visuals too, just shows how good they were.) ‘Cuz that’s what this show is doing so very very well. Showing us the pretty layers of Neptune and then peeling them away selectively so we keep getting closer to answers while raising even more questions. We really do get some insight into why Logan is lashing out at everyone, usually verbally. I think it is very likely, as you suggest, that Mr. Echolls began his treatment of Logan with words. How else would the phrase “the son Aaron Echolls never had” have been well known enough for Connor to know about it if Aaron hadn’t said it or at least suggested it? And I think you are very right that Weevil is being extraordinarily calm about the slurs aimed at him. It’s odd to think that he may actually have more insight into Logan than his long-time best friend Duncan. After all, it is Weevil who gives Logan a sympathetic look when the boys are making comments about Mrs. Echolls and Duncan who joins in with the comments and continues to play drunk, not seeming to notice Logan’s reaction. I think you may be very right in your assessment that Weevil may turn out to be a lifeline for him. I also suspect that Veronica will provide that support as well. I totally agree that the small scene between Veronica and Jake may well prove to be one of more important ones. The ripples have already started to spread – to Keith, as he looks on; to Celeste, as she is confronted by Jake; to Mrs. Echolls and the other party guests who witnessed the confrontation. We have only begun to see the fallout. I am waiting, in particular, to see if we get a conversation between Veronica and her father right away, or will he keep silent until pushed by something else? Everything keeps swirling back to Lily’s murder. It’s not that her murder started the Neptune habit of covering up the truth with trappings. Rather, it’s that habit of hiding the truth that will, I think, prove to be the reason for the murder. And lastly, a nice summarizing paragraph: Lola Lola, More indepth responses later (it's dinner time). But, for now---have you considered doing a guest review?
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Post by Lola m on Dec 22, 2004 21:31:46 GMT -5
Lola, More indepth responses later (it's dinner time). But, for now---have you considered doing a guest review? Eeep! Um. Thanks for thinking of me, but I don't think I could pull enough coherent thoughts together for a review. I do much better commenting on other people's stuff. Which is a way to say that I am very unorganized and somewhat lazy, I suppose. But there you are. Lola
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Post by Karen on Dec 22, 2004 23:21:02 GMT -5
Loved your review, Sue.
I agree - it was the best episode yet. Things are starting to gel and fall apart.
I love how we are being shown the world as it revolves around the children.
Thanks for all the quotes. The episode moves so fast and I miss so much, being distracted by all the visuals.
I missed this: Weevil: "There you go with that head tilt thing. You think you're all bad ass but when you need something it's all 'hey'." Veronica: "Just be glad I don't flip my hair--I'd own you." Weevil: "Could you please, Veronica, protect me from the big bad sweater-vest-wearing rich boys?" (Is Veronica supposed to be channeling Buffy...or Spike?)
Nice bit of flirting. I don't know who of if she'll pair up with any of the characters, but she does like to be snarky.
Thank you for an excellent review!
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Post by Nickim on Dec 25, 2004 12:47:38 GMT -5
Really awesome review, Sue.
I apologize if I'm repeating what others have said, but I don't read the comments until I've seen the episode and written my own thoughts.
I loved the "butlers' son did it." So the servants kids get driven to school by the chauffer? Guess that's why he didn't have a Jag!
I was wondering about this too:
Or, does it mean he knows that she isn't a virgin anymore? I'm hoping that he doesn't know.
What an awesome contrast these two scenes were:
All the decorations at the Echolls' house reflected the coldness and anger in the family. Stark white and blood red.
You really nailed it with this paragraph:
Think how uncomfortable it would be for a teenage boy to know that his friends want to "do" his mom. Weevil is the only one who shows any empathy, and he not really even Logan's friend. Although, I do think we'll see more friendship growing between these two. Weevil really seems to be good for Logan, and Logan somehow seems to realize that. Logan didn't let Weevil suffer alone for the car prank. Weevil doesn't let the slurs get to him, he's much more "adult" than the rest of them.
The really important questions in this scene are the ones Veronica didn't ask. Are you my dad? Were you sleeping with my mom? I'd say it's pretty obvious that Celeste Kane thought her husband and Mrs Mars were having an affair.
Sue, let me say again, thanks for such a great review.
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Post by Nickim on Dec 30, 2004 10:54:04 GMT -5
The butler's kid was another example of someone who wasn't what they appeared to be. That seems to be the main theme of this show. Again, I apologize if someone else already said this. I still haven't had a chance to read all the posts on this thread.
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Post by Lola m on Dec 30, 2004 13:13:12 GMT -5
The butler's kid was another example of someone who wasn't what they appeared to be. That seems to be the main theme of this show. Again, I apologize if someone else already said this. I still haven't had a chance to read all the posts on this thread. Yep, I totally agree! Definitely a main theme of the series as a whole. Which fits with it being a mystery and all. Plus, the whole noir thing. But that also works really nicely with the theme of high school. So often at that age/in that situation kids are trying to belong to one group or another, pretending to be a certain way in order to "fit in". Lola
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Post by vmars on Jan 2, 2005 23:11:43 GMT -5
Caveat: this post has commercial intent: To promote Veronica Mars.
That said, if anyone is interested sign up for phone calls and text messages from Veronica Mars do the following:
using your cell phone: Text "Neptune" to VMARS (86277)
The trial has already begun but starting on the January 4th eipisode you can expect to get text messages during the show with smack talk and clues about the upcoming scene.
You have the option to opt out at any point during the festivities.
Join the fun!
Gene Keenan
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Post by vmars on Jan 3, 2005 2:20:46 GMT -5
forgot something; it does not matter what time zone you are in the messages will be sent at the time the show aires in your area.
cheers!
gene
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Post by Onjel on Jun 22, 2005 20:22:45 GMT -5
I'm also thinking though, that the bit with daddy Kane yelling at Celeste could be taken a couple different ways. That she is the one who set the detective on Veronican and sent the pics to her mom, yes. But also, could he have been yelling because it was her that started the story that Veronica is his daughter, so when V said the thing about him being her dad, he immediately thought of Celeste. Veronica said something about Jake being her dad? Are you sure? I don't remember her saying a word about it. I've got it on tape, but am too lazy and tired right now. Will check. Mrs Echolls - that actresses' fakey lips are so horrible I could hardly stand to look at her. Hard to get past. OK. Really bed now!! Mrs. Echolls is Lisa Rynna, Harry Hamlin's real life wife (but you all know that already)and she has this thing about blowing up her lips! They look better as the time between collagen injections lengthens. ;D
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Post by Sue on Jun 22, 2005 21:30:55 GMT -5
My goodness that was a good ep.
Sign of quality TV---still entrancing on the 2nd or 3rd watching. Still new details to notice.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 22, 2005 22:00:28 GMT -5
My goodness that was a good ep. Sign of quality TV---still entrancing on the 2nd or 3rd watching. Still new details to notice. Many wonderful new details to notice and great remembered details to enjoy again! "Annoy, tiny blonde thing - annoy like the wind!" "Things don't always turn out for the worse. It's Christmas!" said in such a faux perky tone. And then the ending voice over, where she chides herself for every thinking that Christmas in Neptune could ever be about anything other than the trappings. "Looks like an evil doer. Smells like one. Surprisingly, not so much." "Where's Weevil!" **snicker, snicker, love that line - especially because of his delivery** Logan and Duncan's goofy and sweet "making up" scene. Including Logan's quiet delivery of the line "I've done plenty of other things". Ah - great ep!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Jul 4, 2006 21:10:16 GMT -5
Scary hand made ornaments. Yeah, my family's got plenty of those.
baseball as Keith's religion
My parents never tell me what they want for presents either.
Nice scene segue, but what are the chances?
Why is Weevil playing poker with Logan and Duncan
And Duncan has a personality.
Fallic symbols and slashiness.
Matching boxers, BWAH!!!
Money is so wasted on the wealthy. True dat.
The headtilt thing. Hee!!
Dude, might have been better to talk to Weevil without his gang around.
And the racial slurs just keep on coming.
So Keith and Lynn are on rather friendly terms.
Duncan calling Logan on being a jackass. So he wasn't always so.
So other people do all the work, but Lynn takes the credit.
They're The Help.
Dude, that's an awesome jack o' lantern.
Yes, I'm aware that it's Christmas. Hee!!
So Conner is in this crappy 8 mil movie that Aaron ref.
Another person calls Logan on being a jackass
Logan being helpful.
V as in Virgin.
Annoy tiny blonde, annoy like the wind!
Casablancas Annual Halloween Costume Party
So Sean's clothes don't really match with going to school by limo
Damn! What a lecherous bastard.
Hey, it's that girl that was on Smallville.
Psychobabe.
Things don't always turn out for the worst. Well, on this TV show they usually do.
Hee. Love Veronica putting the guys down.
It was ice tea. Wuss.
Damn, Veronica's good. And Duncan didn't know that?
Of course she's a poker whiz. Hee!!! Logan is impressed while the others are put off.
You must be really unlucky at love.
This is totally like my parents Boxing Day parties, 'cept for the depravity.
Logan and Duncan reconciling. Or about to hook up.
Veronica confronting Jake. Without knowing the whole story. Bad move.
And Keith sees the conversation. What is he thinking?
Jake's accusing Celeste? Of what?
Nice juxtaposition
Snowblowers. BWAH HAH HAH!!!
No, Veronica, there is no Santa Claus
So how would everybody not know already that Sean was actually the son of hired help?
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